Anime Thigh Thread II

[Sal the Shieldhog]

As an aside, there's multiple facets to each character too - using Gilles de Rais as an example, he can be summoned as a Caster (where he is the greatest COOOOOORU!), or as a Saber, where he was more like the soldier who knew Joan of Arc. Not every Servant is like this, but a lot of them are. Heracles is another good example - he'd be much different if he were summoned as a Saber, for example, than he was as a Berserker.

They're not scraping the bottom of the barrel, they're looking to include some American Servants when we had really none to speak of. They could've done better - Edison's design screams, "MURICUH!" but it's really got no substance, and I agree that someone better (like Washington) should've been chosen. There's a plethora of people to pick from, whether it's some obscure Native American legend or a big-name President. IMO, Edison was picked because there's potential for conflict between himself and Tesla.

We did get a few good looking Servants out of it though - Billy the Kid looks awesome (And Cu Alter is 3edgy5me).

[Artorius]

Well, at least it's only Edison and Tesla. Both are arguably famous and I can see them wrecking other servants if you take into account the universe they're in. Magnetism is dangerous as fuck. Their designs might look dumb but at least they're different enough.

We should just make an electricity squad with Tesla, Edison, Volta, Ampere, Joule, Ohm, Watt, Siemens, Coulomb, Faraday, Henry, Weber, Hertz, Marconi, Kirchhoff, Thévenin, Norton, Gauss and Bell and let them kill everyone else in the universe. Sounds ok.

Edit: It's actually pretty silly to put those guys against mythological heroes, the heroes would get pulverized by the superior weapons.

[Zatheyll]

We really read about Lincoln more than Washington tho, not that there's much else other than "yeah he's the guy who freed the slaves and then got shot"

It would definitely depend on where in the world a person is and their type of culture. In China people would know more about Washington than any of the others, since they respect leadership more than innovation or discovery as part of their culture. I would be surprised if they knew much at all about Lincoln, since he was a President during a time of civil war, or Edison, since he was an inventor more than a leader.

[Sesto]

That aside, however, my point is that Fate universe originally took various suitable figures from stories, history, and myth and imagined them from a what-if perspective. What if magic existed, what if myths were real, what if those stories were not made up. What if Gilles de Rais' forays into demonology were not a waste of money but instead allowed him to command magic and become a wizard of considerable might. What if the myths and stories about Hassan and his order of assassins were real, and they used black magic and dark rituals to become more than human and kill the targets via curses. Original servants were not chosen randomly and randomly given powers no matter the real world background, that real world background was instead cleverly used to forge the Nasuverse background. Where does Tesla and Edison fit in here? There are no stories of their encounters with the mystical, there are no myths and mystery surrounding anything around them. Grand Order forcefully manufactures everything relating to them to turn them into fighters.

Wow, exactly like Tesla and Edison.

It's not like Tesla was a randomly given powers, he uses inventions he created in the Nasuverse that harness the power of lightning. It's a what-if perspective. What if Tesla, the guy famed in real life for being a literal "mad-scientist", who talked about anti-gravity machines and death-rays, was actually capable of the things he boasted about. It's the exact same scenario as Gilles.

Edison is a bit different, since most of his toolset is conceptual. His stats are terrible because in real life he was just a businessman. But his Noble Phantasm is a highly conceptual ability that "illuminates the populace", destroying faith in the hidden facets of the world. Mysteries are a core component of the Nasuverse, and magic itself works like that: the Mages Association hides Magecraft from the populace because the more people who know about it, the less powerful it is, since it is no longer a mystery. Having had a large role in the invention of the motion picture camera - an invention that is capable of "erasing mystery", since it captures things as they are - his ability does have a basis.

And before you go and complain about how that's them making up a bunch of shit, conceptual powers are seen even in Fate/Stay Night. Heracles' Noble Phantasm is a conceptual ability born from his legend. In his legend he didn't have twelve lives, but he does as a Servant because it's a crystallization of his legendary twelve labours. Same scenario.

In his legend, Lancelot wasn't capable of transforming into different people, or sublimating weapons to his will. He was just well known for disguising himself and had a prowess for using anything as a weapon. As a Servant, those things transformed into conceptual abilities. Same scenario.

Quite frankly it seems like this is one of those "back in my day, there were only 151 pokemon!!" complaints.

Also, that "random Japanese kid" became a servant through his martial prowess and mighty magic, not through stories and fiction. In the future from which he hails he is hardly a "random kid" but instead a notorious war criminal.

FSN Wrong. In the future he isn't a notorious war criminal, he was an unknown mercenary who was used as a scapegoat to end a small conflict. He isn't well known in the future, he was just a nameless guy remembered by no one.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Conceptual-related powers aren't even an unlikely or unheard of thing - Archer had two during F/SN, one being his red cloak and mantle (that protect him from the "external world") and the other being Rho Aias. Rho Aias started out as nothing more than an ox-hide bronze shield with 7 layers of said ox-hide, eventually transforming into the Conceptual Weapon 7-layered petaled shield that is the absolute defense against any thrown projectile.

Things turning from something they are into something they're not happens all the time in the Nasuverse. It's really not an uncommon thing - people and legends change based on humanity's perception of them. There's a multitude of Author Servants who are competent Casters, but they're literally just well-known Authors in our world (Hand Christian Anderson, William Shakespeare, etc). Semiramis has a NP that was never her own because people attributed it to her legend after her death. Hell, there's even Servants whom are able to be summoned even though they never really existed - The Phantom of the Opera is a Servant in Grand Order.

I mean, it's really not that strange that they were made Servants. Leonardo da Vinci was turned into the "image of the Mona Lisa" because it's one of his most well-known pieces. It happens to a lot of Servants.

[Sesto]

Things turning from something they are into something they're not happens all the time in the Nasuverse. It's really not an uncommon thing - people and legends change based on humanity's perception of them. There's a multitude of Author Servants who are competent Casters, but they're literally just well-known Authors in our world (Hand Christian Anderson, William Shakespeare, etc). Semiramis has a NP that was never her own because people attributed it to her legend after her death. Hell, there's even Servants whom are able to be summoned even though they never really existed - The Phantom of the Opera is a Servant in Grand Order.

I mean, it's really not that strange that they were made Servants. Leonardo da Vinci was turned into the "image of the Mona Lisa" because it's one of his most well-known pieces. It happens to a lot of Servants.

This is true, but I don't think it works in this argument because from Caine's point of view those Servants are probably stupid too.

[Swisted]

Are you guys saying that I could be chosen as a servant? Oh yes.

[Artorius]

Are you guys saying that I could be chosen as a servant? Oh yes.

Grim reaper, your noble phantasm is coming back from the dead so you're basically immortal.

Yeah it would work...

[BloodyAngel12]

Who is best Loli Servant?

[Shinzai]

Who is best Loli Servant?

Jack The Ripper.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

This is true, but I don't think it works in this argument because from Caine's point of view those Servants are probably stupid too.

I'm just saying, it happens. I agree that Edison's design is stupid (I don't think anyone is saying it wasn't), but he'd have been made a Servant eventually, if only to act as a rival for Tesla.

Jack The Ripper.

That was another one I was going to say but left out - no one knows who (or what) Jack the Ripper was, but it's a pretty well-known story so it would make a cool Servant. The answer? A loli, of course.

Are you guys saying that I could be chosen as a servant? Oh yes.

why would anyone want a useless servant that disappears for weeks?

You disappear so much you'd make a pretty good Assassin. A+++ ranked Presence Concealment!

[unfilteredJW]

Is this something you guys play or what?

I'm tired of googling stuff. This thread makes me google too much stuff.

[Zatheyll]

Is this something you guys play or what?

I'm tired of googling stuff. This thread makes me google too much stuff.

It's based off of a multi-media universe. Started as a visual novel called Fate/Stay Night, that branched off into anime, light novels, games, mobile games, etc.

[Sesshomaru]

dog belly rubs nsfl

Someone's angry~~~

Spoiler: 

Wish there was more Inukami! episodes. Bizarre, but fun series.
Maybe I should try to hit the manga, if I can find it.

Edit: The collapse command ([collapse]-[/collapse ]) is awesome for picture-related spoilers. Yay for evolution!)
Reminder to myself; revolution has close roots to both the French and Spanish language, messing them up on purpose or not is just embarrassing.

[Deleted]

Wow, exactly like Tesla and Edison.

That's the point we disagree about.
Let me say that Tesla has some interesting concepts behind him, he's not as bad as Edison. Initially I didn't think about his SF-grade ideas, but that does work as the foundation for a servant. However, I still don't see Edison, or many many many other Grand Order/other later media servants. I just picked the Edison/Tesla to focus on because it's their screenshots that started this talk, and because I'm not about to follow and study up on xxx different servants made with the express purpose of getting people to spend money on a mobile game, but they're far from the only ones I scowl at. Any historical figure can be transformed into servant if you bullshit enough with how the Fate universe is now, but that does not mean I have no right to see fault in it.

You say it's the "back in my day there were only 151 pokemon" complaint, but Fate/Stay Night is the root of the entire Fate franchise, and Fate/Zero indubitably stays true to the spirit of the predecessor. Is it really wrong to see the servants from those titles as exemplars, or to complain when some of the new ones seem comedic in comparison?

I'm not trying to convince you. I'm trying to get you to understand my point of view, why do I dislike the proliferation of questionable servants that came with a billion different Fate/whatever releases, but that's proving a challenge because you ignore half of the reasoning I lay out.

Here it is again: every single one of the F/SN or F/Z servants is a warrior in some way. Every single one of them can be seen on the battlefield in some way. Hassan, who always preferred to use his skills as the primal assassin to eliminate the masters from the shadows. Medea, who is a cunning witch manipulating the battles from behind - but if needed can unleash ancient magic of the magnitude unimaginable for the modern magician. Gilles, whose twisted mind and research into demonology allowed him to summon daemonic monstrosities beyond human reasoning. Conceptual powers are most certainly seen in F/SN and F/Z, but they never make up the entirety of the servant - they supplement them. The core is still the person who that particular servant used to be, or will be in some cases. Replacing that core entirely is something I find lazy and just an excuse to get some more well known names in on the action.

FSN Wrong. In the future he isn't a notorious war criminal, he was an unknown mercenary who was used as a scapegoat to end a small conflict. He isn't well known in the future, he was just a nameless guy remembered by no one.

Oh, okay. Didn't pay that much attention to his backstory. Note that this changes literally nothing about my actual point - his combat prowess and magic is what allowed him to become a servant, not his fame or lack thereof.

[Hellravager]

I want this, I NEED IT

[Sesto]

Heroic Spirits [Circumstances]
The Heroes who achieved great deeds and were worshiped after death became Heroic Spirits.

That's the definition of a Heroic Spirit; it has nothing to do with being a warrior. It's not Fate's fault you decided it must be a certain way, so you shouldn't get mad when it doesn't follow your incorrect interpretation.

Medea, who is a cunning witch manipulating the battles from behind - but if needed can unleash ancient magic of the magnitude unimaginable for the modern magician.

She wasn't capable of shooting lasers in her legend, by the way. I can't believe they would use some random witch who murdered her children instead of using a real magical warrior. The Fate universe has gone to shit.

[Swisted]

Grim reaper, your noble phantasm is coming back from the dead so you're basically immortal.

Yeah it would work...

why would anyone want a useless servant that disappears for weeks?

You disappear so much you'd make a pretty good Assassin. A+++ ranked Presence Concealment!

Make it happen. I'm excited now.

[Artorius]

They should make an Elon Musk servant.

[Schirmy]

It's important to remember that people die when they are killed.