[Megathread] Bernie Sanders 2016

[Matchles]

So you're still belaboring this under denial, like Calamorallo is. Keep trying to come up with something...anything...to pretend it isn't happening.

Studies have shown that right-wing psychopaths will cling even harder to their imbecilic beliefs when incontrovertible evidence to the contrary has been given.

Nice try. I'm as liberal as they come. I just don't buy in to the bullshit conspiracy theories that you do.

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http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-pres...t-fact-n561051

In fact, of the 25 states with the highest levels of income inequality, 17 have held primaries so far, and Clinton has won 16 of those contests.

When asked why he thinks he's losing in those states, Sanders responded, "Well, because poor people don't vote. I mean, that's just a fact."

Can you imagine the shit show from TYT, Salon and the like if it were Clinton that said poor people don't vote? They would be whining about "class warfare" for weeks. See Bill Clinton's recent comments on millennials staying home during the midterm elections. A few of the headlines from his comments. "Bill Clinton Blames Millennials For Anger, Economy, Congress", "Bill Clinton Tells Millennials They're What's Wrong With America, Only Hillary Can Fix It", "Bill Clinton’s Got Some Real Balls to Blame Millennials for All America’s Problems." Hypocrites.

[Caolela]

I'm the one in denial? Bernie lost New York by almost 300,000 votes.

Your choices are:
1) Bernie lost the election, basically as expected based on pre-election polling. (Please see http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...rk-democratic/)
or
2) Hillary has put together an incredible shadow apparatus to manipulate a primary election third-world dictator style. Not only was she able to do this, she has successfully manipulated media polls so they would echo what her final result was. Her control over the situation was so impressive, that despite the fact that such an undertaking would take a large number of people, none have flipped and informed on the campaign. Impressive conspiracy, don't you think, especially since Hillary doesn't need New York to remain profoundly ahead in the primary.

You really can't be serious at this point. I know you're sad and mad that Bernie is losing, but you are embarrassing yourself by abandoning any semblance of reason.

Again, I would -love- to face Bernie in the general. Probably even Trump would annihilate someone so out of touch with mainstream American politics.

First, see my above post referencing Sydanyo's post about Clinton PACs hiring trolls to go on the web.

Second, for me it's not about Sanders per se losing. I'm not "sad and mad" (but thanks for the childish stuff) because I've made clear that I'm not a Sanders supporter. I've also made clear that it's about election fraud in this country, no matter who is doing it, either side or any party. That's what I don't want to see going on, but obviously it still is.

Third, investigations are not concluded yet so we don't know what may come out, if it ever does (for reasons I mentioned before); also, it isn't hard for people to keep their mouths shut on these things when they have strong enough motives to do so, and candidates to peddle influence. That's nothing new, it's been going on since Tammany Hall and earlier.

Last, pre-election polls aren't the best indicator of how people actually voted once they're in the booth. Voters can change their minds at the last minute, or because something else may have swayed their vote since the poll, or simply didn't vote - any number of reasons. The best info to check results (other than obvious recounts, paper ballots, etc.) has traditionally been exit polling, because people are more apt to be honest about who they just voted for, and it has often correlated well with known legitimate election results.

Your choices are: none. You're dead wrong. Accept it like an adult and move along.

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Nice try. I'm as liberal as they come. I just don't buy in to the bullshit conspiracy theories that you do.

You and Cala can scream "CONSPIRUSEH THEE-REE!1!" all day, but the facts show you to be in denial. And if you're supporting the Clintons, you're not "liberal" you're neoliberal or worse.

There is quite a difference.

[Blobfish]

Amazes me why Young people love this guy
Yet in Australia if you are over 50 years its Age Discriminataion
Getting a Job after 50 is dammm Hard

20year old Socialist dreamers become clued
and a few a conservative, like me, after 45

[breadisfunny]

I'm the one in denial? Bernie lost New York by almost 300,000 votes.

Your choices are:
1) Bernie lost the election, basically as expected based on pre-election polling. (Please see http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...rk-democratic/)
or
2) Hillary has put together an incredible shadow apparatus to manipulate a primary election third-world dictator style. Not only was she able to do this, she has successfully manipulated media polls so they would echo what her final result was. Her control over the situation was so impressive, that despite the fact that such an undertaking would take a large number of people, none have flipped and informed on the campaign. Impressive conspiracy, don't you think, especially since Hillary doesn't need New York to remain profoundly ahead in the primary.

You really can't be serious at this point. I know you're sad and mad that Bernie is losing, but you are embarrassing yourself by abandoning any semblance of reason.

Again, I would -love- to face Bernie in the general. Probably even Trump would annihilate someone so out of touch with mainstream American politics.

WHICH IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM IS AMERICAN MAINSTREAM POLITICS. it's what leading this country to ruin.

[Cthulhu 2020]

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At some point we WILL need to increase revenue. We simply cant continue to have our social services, especial medicare, grow and not support it with increased rev to keep it form collapsing. and cutting medicare is political suicide for both parties, same with SS.

I just rather look at corporations's evasions first, then if we need to look at individuals. Although, I'm against over half taxed on principle. and yes, I know that's 54% after you hit 10 mil, not on the entire income. 49% is ok

This is a somewhat old post to reply to, but the person you responded to is making 20k a year, which is like the first tax bracket of taxable income, which means he'd probably see his taxes go up a couple of dollars at 2% rise, meaning one less mars bar.

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Amazes me why Young people love this guy
Yet in Australia if you are over 50 years its Age Discriminataion
Getting a Job after 50 is dammm Hard

20year old Socialist dreamers become clued
and a few a conservative, like me, after 45

So you were a socialist when you were younger, and are now conservative?

Well I guess you fit into that demographic of "me".

People who vote for their own interests.
Young people with shit jobs? I want more money!
Older people who have higher paying jobs? Stop taking my money!

I have a great job and wouldn't mind paying a bit more in taxes to make the country a better place, but the demographic of "me" says "FUCK YOU, I WANT MONEY, I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE COUNTRY"

I will continue to be a classic liberal til the day I die, unless the conservatives really clean up their parties and throw the bigots, racists, sexists, liars, swindlers, cronies and other fuckwads out.

[Crissi]

This is a somewhat old post to reply to, but the person you responded to is making 20k a year, which is like the first tax bracket of taxable income, which means he'd probably see his taxes go up a couple of dollars at 2% rise, meaning one less mars bar.

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Oh hey, I saw the quote notification

and yeah, it wouldnt amount to much. Apparently 400 a year. Im likely to pay a lot more than he will because of a higher starting income when I finally get my blasted job. However, I do think its important for most Americans to contribute (bar inability for whatever reasons), even if its just a little bit. Thats probably just my conservative side showing though.

Although for any issues of 2% at 20k, should probably ask Sanders why he chose 20k as the point one starts paying instead of a higher limit. *shrug* Is there really enough people making 20kish to make 400 a year a significant contribution?

[Caolela]

...unless the conservatives really clean up their parties and throw the bigots, racists, sexists, liars, swindlers, cronies and other fuckwads out.

In that scenario, there wouldn't be any conservatives left, except about 8 semi-fuckwads...probably no-life'ing on the last WoW server hoping to rez Eisenhower.

[Crissi]

...I understand the anger but man, isnt that kind of absolute hate the reason politics is in this mess?

[Matchles]

You and Cala can scream "CONSPIRUSEH THEE-REE!1!" all day, but the facts show you to be in denial. And if you're supporting the Clintons, you're not "liberal" you're neoliberal or worse.

There is quite a difference.

The facts show you are completely incapable of advancing an argument that supports your position. You can try to label me all you like. I have my reasons for supporting Clinton. I may prefer Sanders policies on some issues, but the guy is damn near retarded when it comes to implementing his platform. Whatever Clinton lacks in idealism she will more than make up for in getting shit done. I also think there are more than two issues the country needs to address. Not every problem is the fault of the banks and Wall St.. So you can shove that "No True Scotsman" argument up your ass.

[Skroe]

I can believe it though. It may be one reason why people like Skroe and Vynestra have been working their balls off doing the same thing.

Skroe has mocked Sanders supporters for weeks, while at the same time spinning huge feel-good yarns about Clinton. He's even claimed he's had people PM him that he's swayed them toward Clinton.

Can I prove he's been paid to do it by the Clinton campaign or PACs? Of course not.

Is it plausible and even likely, given what we've seen? Definitely.

rofl. Oh man, god help you. Seriously. God help you.

I've been posting in OT for like four, maybe five years now. I post almost nowhere else in MMO-Champ besides here. I usually post in computer science, foreign policy / security, and space science/NASA stuff because those are my career, and two big hobbies of mine. You won't see me posting in stuff like Gun control or relationship nonsense. I'm fairly narrow.

I've been GM of the WoW Raiding Guild Tyranny, since February 2008. Like I didn't just pop up since December. I've been here for a long time.

I have a MMO-Champ "presence" on a few narrow issues as thick as the Yellow pages. Commenting on Clinton, who by the way was secretary of state and shares my foreign policy in most ways, is perhaps one percent of all comments I've ever written in OT. It is minuscule. It's the hobby of a hobby of a hobby.

That you think I'm some kind paid sock puppet for the clinton campaign is one of the single stupidest and most deranged things I've seen said to me in OT. And I've seen some stuff mind you. Some folks are fucking nuts.

It is fucking hysterical to me you're so far gone, and I mean that truly - far, far gone - that it doesn't exist within your concept of reality that there are lots of people who see what you're selling and aren't remotely interested.

And you WONDER why the hard left gets a bad rap. People like you do it to yourselves.

But maybe I should take it as a compliment. I've been forceful enough in my position you have to ascribe monied interested and their tenatacles reaching into the depths of this random corner of the interwebs in order to explain it.

Holy fuckin shit, that's a hoot.

[Caolela]

The facts show you are completely incapable of advancing an argument that supports your position. You can try to label me all you like. I have my reasons for supporting Clinton. I may prefer Sanders policies on some issues, but the guy is damn near retarded when it comes to implementing his platform. Whatever Clinton lacks in idealism she will more than make up for in getting shit done. I also think there are more than two issues the country needs to address. Not every issue is the fault of the banks and Wall St..

That just shows how ignorant you are about the problems in this country, or as I've said - disingenuous to the extreme. If you knew anything outside of your bubble, you'd know how enormous the banks and Wall St. influence and control is. Because of the crash of '08 they caused, they were the beneficiaries of the largest transfer of wealth ever in human history. That isn't hyperbole, it's a fact.

They are tied in with everything else that has undue influence, such as the defense industry and oil corps. Ongoing, needless war; loss of millions of jobs - you name it and the banks are in on it. The damage that financialization has wreaked on this country cannot be overstated.

I've supported my arguments with links and facts, and coherent points based on them. Anything I've said here can easily be found by anyone who cares to look, and I encourage others to do so.

Clinton "getting shit done" is yet another canard that gullible people have swallowed whole from her highly-paid spin machine, people who are too lazy to look into her real history on the issues, or who would rather just ignore it. She has done nothing remarkable as a senator, Sec'y of State or as a First Lady. Mainly, she's been a warmonger and carried water for her rich cohorts.

You really should wake up and smell the coffee. Clinton will be more of Shrub and Obama, but worse.

[Skroe]

My turn next Caolela! I want a ride mommy! Let's take a ride on the crazy train!

[Caolela]

Oh look, the pariah is back to embarrass himself some more.

[Skroe]

Oh look, the pariah is back to embarrass himself some more.

I can't stay away. Talking to you is like reading Heart of Darkness on an acid trip.

I really want to see this alternate reality where I'm a paid Clinton campaign lackey. Maybe I have a goatee in that reality.

[Caolela]

deleted...

Holy fuckin shit, that's a hoot.

But holy fuckin shit, it fits your past several weeks on these boards to a 'T'. Hit a nerve there?

Bash Sanders people, fabricate for Clinton. Over and over. Where's your monkey pics on this one?

[Skroe]

But holy fuckin shit, it fits your past several weeks on these boards to a 'T'. Hit a nerve there?

Bash Sanders people, fabricate for Clinton. Over and over. Where's your monkey pics on this one?

Not at all. The only way it fits is that you're so far gone to not actually *grasp* the possibility that there are lots of people who find Bernie Sanders, nevermind your beliefs *utterly* revolting. Its amazing. I mean I say some stuff that really gets people goin, but even I grasp that probably 30-40% of people want no part of what I'm selling. That's fine. That's life.

And then there is the fact I can engage intelligently with about half the people in this thread that you've largely crapped up with shit posting (see other people's responses to your responses to them, nevermind mine), and then you go and accuse me of being the sock puppet, has me grinning ear to ear. You strike me as stunningly politically immature and factually uninformed.

Again, this is new. Even for me. You really are your own worst enemy Caolela. As messengers go for a set of ideas, you absolutely suck.

[Caolela]

Not at all. The only way it fits is that you're so far gone to not actually *grasp* the possibility that there are lots of people who find Bernie Sanders, nevermind your beliefs *utterly* revolting. Its amazing. I mean I say some stuff that really gets people goin, but even I grasp that probably 30-40% of people want no part of what I'm selling. That's fine. That's life.

And then there is the fact I can engage intelligently with about half the people in this thread that you've largely crapped up with shit posting (see other people's responses to your responses to them, nevermind mine), and then you go and accuse me of being the sock puppet, has me grinning ear to ear. You strike me as stunningly politically immature and factually uninformed.

Again, this is new. Even for me. You really are your own worst enemy Caolela. As messengers go for a set of ideas, you absolutely suck.

You're opinions are, as everyone has seen, servile and insidious.

The difference is, there are more people here that you've offended needlessly with lies and propaganda, which I and others have proven repeatedly; while if I've offended a few stubborn Clintonbots it's only been with the hard truth, and that which might do them some good to begin realizing.

Crawl back in your hole, Skroe. You're kaput.

[Skroe]

You're opinions are, as everyone has seen, servile and insidious.

The difference is, there are more people here that you've offended needlessly with lies and propaganda, which I and others have proven repeatedly; while if I've offended a few stubborn Clintonbots it's only been with the hard truth, and that which might do them some good to begin realizing.

Crawl back in your hole, Skroe. You're kaput.

You forget: I am not a liberal. I am conservative. Of course I want to undermine a liberal in Bernie Sanders. But it's not lies and propaganda at all. I mean lets cut down to one issue, just one:

why did Sanders, a 74 year old man, calling for a revolution, not resign from the senate to lead that revolution to victory.

That's an internal sanders campaign criticism of THEIR GUY. That's not from me. THat's from people who work for Sanders and frustrated that their guy... well... kinda is a terrible leader.

It's propaganda to share that fact?

In any event I've won. Liberalism has been routed. Have you seen the Pennsylvania polls? They look like the pre-primary New York polls. The Next President of the United States will be Hillary Clinton, unless she blows it to a maniac in a fractured political party. I can deal with Clinton for the next 4 years. Hopefully Jon Huntsman runs in 2020.

I am very content to tapdance on the Sanders campaign's grave. THe ideas were shit. The campaign was shit. Both deserved to lose. The only downside is that people with a lot of heart got taken for a ride by a charlatan. As I've said, I do respect Sanders supporters passion. But their uncritical nature of the shitshow that has been his campaign is mindboggling.

[Caolela]

Every paragraph straight out of the Clinton PAC playbook: bash Sanders, propagandize for Clinton. How's that payola doing?

You support a serial liar who you yourself said was just that, and tried to paint it as a good thing. Can anyone give credence to your patter after such Orwellian hogwash?

Here's a few facts on your 68 year-old corporate warmonger du jour and her many lies: http://www.politifact.com/personalit...yruling/false/

A corrupt bullshitter supporting a serial liar. Isn't that the way it usually goes?

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...I understand the anger but man, isnt that kind of absolute hate the reason politics is in this mess?

I'd say the reason is the absolute hate and contempt the politicians have for nearly everyone in the country. Except when they 'love' us at election time.

[Skroe]

This guy.... lol......