Flying vs. Ground Mounts

[Otaka]

ground mounts look better everyday.... their animations directly interact with the game world, flying mounts dont... as game worlds dont have simulated air currents or anything like that so its pretty much like flying in noclipmode in a game. :P
If WoW had simulated air currents and smoke when you fly, then i wouldnt mind flying at all, probably even prefer it... now its just... people justify flying because its more efficient.
(I love flying in Arma 3... its more efficient but its not as efficient as one would think... their biggest map, it still takes solid 20 minutes to fly across it in a helo, maybe 5 mins in a jet)

[deadman1]

The results are useless because half the people don't know the question.

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I think Flying was an incredibly short sighted feature to add to a genre of game that was never designed around Z axis game play. All game systems, content, and lore suggests that flying is a bad idea considering the way the game was designed. I would not be upset if they removed the ability of free flight from the game and modified it to be more 'on rails' like.

"On rails" that's a term people use for high quality rpgs. Bahahaha

[Eroginous]

The results are useless because half the people don't know the question.

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"On rails" that's a term people use for high quality rpgs. Bahahaha

Sure, people use all sorts of buzzwords to either promote or trash their pet game. Instead, I'm pointing out the imbalanced nature of free flight in a game with no Z axis design and offering a more balanced solution without completely removing the concept of flight travel from the game. We already have this really terribly designed flight path system and this really terribly designed flying mount system.

The best solution would be to combine the two and only allow free flight in places that are considered sanctuary for characters (main cities/hubs). Let players customize their taxis by using mounts they've collected and re design the taxi service to be more robust and flexible for players. Instead of fixed points, have a personal pickup and destination system that can navigate cross continent/expansion without the need for interrupting the trip with portals or zepplins/boats. Think of it this way: when you're not in combat, a little valet goblin or gnome will come swooping down with your mount, let you mount up, and your mount takes you to the destination you want, regardless of where it's physically located in game.

So like you start flying along for a minute departing from Zangermarsh and you want to go to check a rare spawn in Townlong Steppes, your mount starts up and off like a normal flight path and then a portal opens ahead of you and you fly through it, putting you near where you wanted to go in Pandaria, and your flying mount takes you the rest of the way to your destination and drops you off at your customized spot.

How much cooler would that be? A system designed around player need for personal transportation without the exploitative and often disruptive behavior of the free flight system we currently have. Combine this sort of a system with another system that eliminates server lines further, we might see a return of the player base to the open world and some popularity return to live servers. They could even give mage portals the same treatment, allowing mages the ability to go to specific locations (or send people to specific locations) rather than fixed points in the game. Hearthstones could be changed to do the same thing: remember a specific location rather than a predetermined one.

And the point of making Wow more 'on rails' is because it's supposed to be that way to begin with. When you give people 100% control over their movement on the Z axis with no costs or penalties for being up in the air, that's counter-intuitive to providing a theme park MMO experience. RPG design generally pushes you on a specific path with very little flexibility in how you navigate, even when there's an open world to explore. I love the idea of air travel, there are many great places to go in the game. The current systems are far too convenient and too easy to abuse by both asshole gamers and cheaters. Flight needs to be addressed at some point because that's a major roadblock to the live version of Wow (and why people seem to prefer playing private servers). Taxis and Free flight together in the same space becomes redundant, especially when each are inefficient forms of air travel to begin with.

I don't consider the 'quality' of Wow compared to other games to be a useful discussion to have. You either enjoy Wow for the game it is, ask for improvements that make sense, or you are so displeased you don't play it anymore. Comparing Wow to any other MMO is pretty pointless outside of establishing a baseline discussion for new MMO releases or new Wow content that is adding features found in other games. I'm certainly not trying to argue for more quality in this thread, just better design.

[Spiffums]

Flight has been a part of the game since TBC. Taking out flight is the same as taking out ground mounts. Just run your ass everywhere!

[Pull My Finger]

I'm on the side that slaps the heck out of everyone who doesn't give it a rest about fuckin' flying or not flying already.

[Deleted]

Flying. Always.

[Sunnydee]

What a new interesting subject.

[Deleted]

Flying.

It gives a more realistic feel, we are in a world with dragons when they jump as wingless chickens on the ground it turns this hole game into a joke.

[Flurryfang]

Have worked very hard for mounts like Alani and Flamebreach Hippogryph, but i really enjoy the ground mount feeling a lot more :=)

[Eroginous]

Flying.

It gives a more realistic feel, we are in a world with dragons when they jump as wingless chickens on the ground it turns this hole game into a joke.

The game has no Z axis content. There's no air obstacles that make being in the air a dangerous prospect. There aren't any flight physics other than a set speed and a little wiggle of your mount as it travels through the air to 'simulate' flight physics. How is that realistic? There's no takeoff, no landing, no fatigue for your mount, no movement limitations, you just free fly everywhere like super man or goku. If this were a DBZ or super hero game, I would agree that it is necessary and adds realism.

But in this incarnation, it is immersion breaking and unrealistic. It's just an added effect 'hey look we can add some Z axis movement, tie it to specific mounts, and present that as a major feature' and you kids are way to hung up on it to understand how detrimental it is to the game.

[Deleted]

The game has no Z axis content.

This is idd a problem, blizzard should embrace flying fully making caves in mountain walls and flying only zones like in TBC.
Maybe even hostile flying Mobs and aircombat for PvP server.

Just that there is no flying content made sofar does not mean we need to stick to the ground in a fantasy universe where we have flying creatures. If anything blizzard should put alot more effort into flying and find ways to make flying better i am fine btw with flying being earned like we had in WoD.

[Deleted]

Flying mounts should be 50% speed and have fatigue so you can't just fly endlessly. Epic ground mounts should be the fastest way to travel, with flying mounts serving for things like accessing special areas, or occasionally bypassing an obstacle (like going over a mountain range or a lake).

[Deleted]

Flying mounts should be 50% speed and have fatigue so you can't just fly endlessly. Epic ground mounts should be the fastest way to travel, with flying mounts serving for things like accessing special areas, or occasionally bypassing an obstacle (like going over a mountain range or a lake).

Why 50% it makes no sense that a dragon would be slower then a tiger, it is totally unrealistic.

[Deleted]

Why 50% it makes no sense that a dragon would be slower then a tiger, it is totally unrealistic.

Really? It's unrealistic that a dragon is slower than a tiger? No way!

Everything in WoW is unrealistic. It's about making the game design interesting. If flying mount is always the optimal way to travel, then there is nothing interesting about it, it simply obsoletes ground mounts. To make it interesting, you need a design where sometimes ground mounts are optimal and sometimes flying mounts are. 50% speed means that it's not going to be faster to fly to your destination in straight line than use an epic mount on the ground. But at the same time, ground mounts are restricted by obstacles that flying mounts can go over.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Flying is bad for the game.
Find it fun or interesting all you want, but it's BAD for the game.
I hope we never get flying in Legion.

[WowIsDead64]

Flying.

1) As I already said - there is no incentive to interact with mobs/other players on a ground. I play on PVE server, cuz PVP has never been balanced - I've got sick of being instantly nuked by Mages from 40m back in WotLK. And quest tells me "Kill 10 mobs" - I kill 10 mobs. I don't need more. Why should I kill 100 mobs, constantly spawning, on my way to bad guy, if it's just pointless waste of time? Back in Vanilla it was immersive. If I would have killed all mobs in quest zone - they wouldn't have respawned immediately. So it really looked like "clearing enemy fortress" - not like stupid grind. So via properly clearing my way to bad guy - I would also clear my way back.
2) Terrible landscape. Wow is essentially 2D game. There is no proper tools for navigation in 3D space in this game. Also engine is very obsolete, so terrain is binary - you either can pass it or you can't. So, it's total crap, when Blizzard use 3D environment, where you have to go 1km around, just because you can't climb on hill, that has 1 degree steeper angle.
3) Obsolete mechanics. Competition during questing. Tagging. Aggro. Combat. If you won't fly - you'll waste too much time due to this mechanics, that existed in the past exactly for this purpose - to waste your time. But it's 2016 year - not 2004. There is no more reason to get stuck in combat due to simply scratching other player's mob, having no other way to escape it, except killing this mob, you won't even be rewarded for.
4) Travelling from point A to point B - isn't playing the game. It's idling. And I hate idling. If there is not enough mobs - there are two ways to deal with this situation. To camp some spot or to go searching for alive mobs. In both cases it's idling and I hate it. But at least flying is fast enough to find mobs quickly.
5) Flight paths take me out of world. I NEVER use flight paths in Tanaan, cuz I can miss rare mob or treasure due to it. NEVER! In other cases I use flight paths only if I want to go AFK.

So. What I want to say. There is no reason to artificially waste my time. I would accept no flying only in one case - if quest design will be reverted back to Vanilla one. I.e. huge questing zones with lots of mobs, but with much lower density of mobs. 50/50 - if Blizzard will implement instanced questing. In all other cases - NO! No fly - no buy. Also. I do Tanaan now. But I actually hate TI-like content due to overcrowding, competition, queues, rushing, idling, etc. If Blizzard won't fix this problem and won't implement some good alternative solo content, such as 5ppls or LFR - I won't buy Legion anyway, cuz there will be nothing to do for me there.

For me best compromise - is account wide achievement, that unlocks flying in 7.0 content, being available at release. I don't see a reason not to unlock flying, when content obsoletes. And it obsoletes as soon, as players complete it on one character. Only in this case I will buy Legion at release.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Riding dragons in a fantasy world. 'nuff said. Seeing a player fly past on a gryphon on my brother's screen is the reason for me picking up the game. I explore, immerse myself and have fun just fine with flying since I actually care for those things. The people complaining about flying "ruining the content" remind me of the people complaining about LFD/LFR when they themselves are the worst offenders when it comes to sitting in a city...

People that prefer ground can choose not to use flying mounts nor roll for them when they drop in current content.

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Flying is bad for the game.
Find it fun or interesting all you want, but it's BAD for the game.
I hope we never get flying in Legion.

And yet we had it in the 3 most hailed expansions.

It's not bad for the game, bad content design is bad for the game.
And we will get flying in Legion, so it's time you people who played a game that's been allowing flight for longer than it didn't just got over it already.

[ShiyoKozuki]

One of the lead devs, I think Kalgan said this:
"Flying is one of my biggest mistakes".

Even the devs realize flying is bad for the game.

Argue all you want, you're wrong.

[Deleted]

Flying, any day... For me it's more fun and immersive. I'm glad I can skip various mob packs, beacause I've probably fought them already while leveling. I can't really appreciate the zones, until I'm flying. When I'm on ground, it's all about avoiding mobs and the moment I start to look around - dazed, dismounted... Only when flying and not caring about mobs I can really see the beauty and scale of the whole zone. I never properly realized the big mountains of Jade Forest or vast plains of Dragonblight until I got flying...

Argue all you want, noone is right or wrong in their likings... But there are people who want to take away from others, just to make themselves feel better...

[WowIsDead64]

One of the lead devs, I think Kalgan said this:
"Flying is one of my biggest mistakes".

Even the devs realize flying is bad for the game.

Argue all you want, you're wrong.

No. It just proves, that they are wrong - nothing more.