Study: Spanking increases childhood defiance and mental health issues

[Stone the Crow]

Did you even read it?

It included over 160,000 people, over a 50 year period, including children and adults who had not been spanked, and who had been spanked a lot. It studied varying levels of spankings and found that the more often administered were worse off. The study also did not include physical disciplinary actions that were considered abusive, and only studied open handed smacks on the bottom or extremities as a spank.

There's so much wrong with your reply when you don't even read the article in the OP, much less look up the study itself.

Well, except that you didn't address a single fucking thing I said with that worthless reply. Other than to (unintentionally) comfirm everything I said.

1.) No, there were no control groups, and there was no actual study.

2.) Instead, it was basically just a worthless fucking questionaire with zero research into whether or not the answers were correct, honest, or accurate (and yes, all three of those things are different).

3.) They had no way of knowing what was or wasn't a "physical disciplinary action that were considered abusive" except people's word on the subject.

4.) There seems to be no indication that they looked into other causes of why people allegedly turned out for the worse.

5.) It is indeed a worthless piece of shit "study" because of all three of those reasons. It might as well have been a fucking poll on a message forum asking "does drinking Kool-Aid make you a homicidal maniac? Because 80% of all homicidial maniacs have tasted Kool-Aid before; ergo, Kool-Aid makes you a homicidial maniac. Do you agree or not?"

[Cthulhu 2020]

Frequency please, signed by all individual testimonies/ees.

You're welcome to read the paper and find fault with it and the 160,000 people it studied over a 50 year period.

[Rooflesstoofless]

Maybe if you proved a case for the distinction, instead of just asserting a distinction exists, you'd have a point. However, you have no case for a distinction, because there isn't one. It's wrong to hit people, exponentially so when they are helpless to defend themselves, which is why me hitting my mother in law is so repugnant. Suspending this simple moral idea for children is something that you need to actually defend on some kind of ground, not just repeatedly assert the validity of doing.

The distinction exists legally; you are the one confusing beating random people and the mentally ill with corrective action to a child's rear end.

[Vespian]

You're welcome to read the paper and find fault with it and the 160,000 people it studied over a 50 year period.

I was, but someone beat me to it, it seems.

Well, that and the fact that as long as the definition of spanking is not made pure and exact, this debate is never going to go anywhere. Once more, unless the study is performed in a controlled environment (which would be quite a massive social studies), any conclusion is just predetermined conjecture, just like the anti-gaming studies. These are anti-spanking studies that exist to proof a statement, rather than to objectively conclude.

[Cthulhu 2020]

1.) No, there were no control groups, and there was no actual study.

It appears you don't know what a control group is, as in this case a control group is people who aren't spanked. Which yes, were in the study.

2.) Instead, it was basically just a worthless fucking questionaire with zero research into whether or not the answers were correct, honest, or accurate (and yes, all three of those things are different).

3.) They had no way of knowing what was or wasn't a "physical disciplinary action that were considered abusive" except people's word on the subject.

4.) It is indeed a worthless piece of shit "study" because of all three of those reasons. It might as well have been a fucking poll on a message forum.

The source of materials were numerous, where you got the idea that it was a simple questionnaire is beyond me, but again you showed yourself incapable of reading from the get go.

[Vespian]

It appears you don't know what a control group is, as in this case a control group is people who aren't spanked. Which yes, were in the study.

Say.wut? /moarchars

[Cthulhu 2020]

Say.wut? /moarchars

If you're studying the affects of X on a group of people, you have a group of people who didn't have X happen to them.

Not sure what I expected from a forum full of people who think 1000 is an insufficiently small sample size for a population of 300m.

[Vespian]

If you're studying the affects of X on a group of people, you have a group of people who didn't have X happen to them.

Not sure what I expected from a forum full of people who think 1000 is an insufficiently small sample size for a population of 300m.

Yeah, but what you forget, is the fact that all those people within those control groups, also have to be selected and fully controlled over the course of the study. Which is not the case.

Actually funny that you mention it. I wasn't going to go empiric on your ass, because it doesn't serve a purpose, but as a gamer ánd spanking-victim (lolz^x), I feel pretty happy. If we gather enough empiric evidence to call it a collection, it becomes a scientific measure, according to your very limited understanding of control.

[Sunseeker]

I'm pretty sure I'm too late to this thread to be in before a bunch of not-doctors talking about how "every child is different", "I don't hit my kids that hard", "well how else are they gunna lurn a lessun?" and every other manner of idiocy to justify hitting children.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Yeah, but what you forget, is the fact that all those people within those control groups, also have to be selected and fully controlled over the course of the study. Which is not the case.

So you've read the study?

I mean for not having read it you sure do know a lot about it.

[Malachi256]

It appears you don't know what a control group is, as in this case a control group is people who aren't spanked. Which yes, were in the study.

It appears you don't understand how rigorous science works. Let me give you an example of a hypothetical rigorous experiment that actually provides strong evidence relating to the question of spanking and children:

1. 100 children are grown in a lab - they are 100% genetically identical clones
2. They are raised in isolated, identical environments by robot parents who all behave exactly the same way, except when it comes to discipline. This is the independent variable.
3. At this point you can vary exactly what you do, but let's keep it simple and have 50 of them get spanked when they misbehave in addition to a suite of non-physical discipline measures, and 50 of them never get touched - only non-physical discipline measures are used.
4. Observe results


What the OP sites is soft science. Maybe garbage, maybe not, but it's very very soft. Because there are 1000s of variables that are out of control of the observers. Many of them aren't even remotely taken into account in the analysis. Come to what conclusions you want based on the data you can collect, but there's a very good chance you'll be wrong.

[Vespian]

So you've read the study?

I mean for not having read it you sure do know a lot about it.

Who's calling who's bluff right now? I know, do you?

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm pretty sure I'm too late to this thread to be in before a bunch of not-doctors talking about how "every child is different", "I don't hit my kids that hard", "well how else are they gunna lurn a lessun?" and every other manner of idiocy to justify hitting children.

There are a lot of armchair behavioral scientists in here who have read a several hundred page study in just a couple of hours, didn't you know?

Fucking lol.

But I'm not sure why we expected differently. Every time there's one of these threads, these people always come out of the woodwork. My guess is trying their hardest to justify spankings done on them as a kid. Hell, every time we have one of these threads I've always said "It always seems to me like the people who say 'I got spanked as a kid, and look at me! I turned out fine!' are the people with the most issues, especially anger issues" and oh look, it's right there in the results.

[Rooflesstoofless]

I'm pretty sure I'm too late to this thread to be in before a bunch of not-doctors talking about how "every child is different", "I don't hit my kids that hard", "well how else are they gunna lurn a lessun?" and every other manner of idiocy to justify hitting children.

So you need a doctor to tell you children are different and they don't all learn the same?

Cool story, bro.

[Vespian]

There are a lot of armchair behavioral scientists in here who have read a several hundred page study in just a couple of hours, didn't you know?

Actually, yeah.. I have since stopped, but until my 14th, I used to read 360 books a year (1 per day), with an average of ~300 pages. And I'm talking schooldays.

But I'm not sure why we expected differently. Every time there's one of these threads, these people always come out of the woodwork. My guess is trying their hardest to justify spankings done on them as a kid. Hell, every time we have one of these threads I've always said "It always seems to me like the people who say 'I got spanked as a kid, and look at me! I turned out fine!' are the people with the most issues, especially anger issues" and oh look, it's right there in the results.

So now you also have a scientific study that claims MMO-Champion forum posters all have anger issues? I admit, I have not yet read that one.

[Stone the Crow]

It appears you don't know what a control group is, as in this case a control group is people who aren't spanked. Which yes, were in the study.

Wrong. You're the one who doesn't know what a control group is. For it to be a control group, they would have to have been absolutely sure that they weren't spanked. Not just asking "were you spanked a child?" and them saying "nope!" That kind of data is fucking worthless. Again: Not a study: It was little more than a useless questionnaire.

The source of materials were numerous, where you got the idea that it was a simple questionnaire is beyond me, but again you showed yourself incapable of reading from the get go.

A questionnaire is a questionnaire whether it's ten people or ten million people, whether it was over five minutes or fifty years. None of that changes the fact that they had no way whatsoever of verifying any fucking answer they received when they asked. Doubly so since most people will misremember their own childhoods; some pussies will say that a light smack on the ass once when they were three was a brutal case of child abuse, while another will say it was a spanking, while yet another will not even remember it all because it had so little effect on their childhood. And all the "researchers" (and I'm only using that term in a technical sense, and in no way a respectful one) have to go on is what they tell them.

And again: If spanking makes everyone a horrible person, and over 80% of the world's population was spanked, then the world must be a fucking cesspool (even a fraction of that ~5,700,000,000, aka 80%, of all people) of the more violent, evil, and despicable people to ever live.

It's a fucking joke. The fact that you don't get it says more about you than it does anything else.

[Theinquisition]

Theres nothing wrong with a swat on the butt as an attention getter.

[Stone the Crow]

There are a lot of armchair behavioral scientists in here who have read a several hundred page study in just a couple of hours, didn't you know?

As opposed to you, of course. The expert in all subjects.

Talk about "fucking lol."

[Khaza-R]

There are a lot of armchair behavioral scientists in here who have read a several hundred page study in just a couple of hours, didn't you know?

Fucking lol.

But I'm not sure why we expected differently. Every time there's one of these threads, these people always come out of the woodwork. My guess is trying their hardest to justify spankings done on them as a kid. Hell, every time we have one of these threads I've always said "It always seems to me like the people who say 'I got spanked as a kid, and look at me! I turned out fine!' are the people with the most issues, especially anger issues" and oh look, it's right there in the results.

Pot seems to be calling the kettle black.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Who's calling who's bluff right now? I know, do you?

Seeing as how the study is several hundreds of pages long and you've been making claims of the paper's fallacy since recently after it was posted, it would seem you're the one that's lying.

Even when studies are both available without a subscription to the journal (which I have) and short, there are always armchair "scientists" on these forums trying to point out flaws that don't actually exist. You're nothing special kid.