No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[rda]

BTW, the latest blue:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...371?page=9#162

...doesn't give any estimate for the date flying will be unlocked, and doesn't even give any thoughts about it besides "well, it's going to be later".

Needless to say, it doesn't give any reasoning why the heck do they not enable flying with this very achievement. I guess they think they have explained it all before: the immersion crap (immersion is personal), the leveling trivialization crap (nobody asks for flying while leveling), the no swoop-in-swoop out crap (if you don't want people to do it, design quests like "kill 30 mobs and 1 boss" - and they are already designed that way) and several similar non-starters.

[Raiju]

Personally having seen world quests I'm happy about no immediately available flying now (previously thought it should be available from the start behind the pathfinder). Will see how I feel by the first content patch I guess, though.

World quests will be interesting without flying, anyway. They're not 1 location a day like apexis grinds so hopefully will reward terrain knowledge & use of travel items.

[Deleted]

Is it known how big the speed boost is?

[rda]

Personally having seen world quests I'm happy about no immediately available flying now (previously thought it should be available from the start behind the pathfinder). Will see how I feel by the first content patch I guess, though.

World quests will be interesting without flying, anyway. They're not 1 location a day like apexis grinds so hopefully will reward terrain knowledge & use of travel items.

Not sure how flying would make world quests less interesting. Again, if you don't want to fly, go ahead and go by ground. Why the heck do you want *me* not to fly??? Because I am going to do more world quests than you in the same time? Fine, I don't want you raiding more than once per week then, because I only can raid that much and if you raid more, you'll get ahead of me in gear and progress. It's just stupid.

[Raiju]

I don't raid, so only being able to raid once a week is fine. But limiters make for interesting & creative gameplay. I'm interested to see what methods people come up with to make world travel faster between world quests - something that hasn't really existed in the game at any point.

[rda]

I don't raid, so only being able to raid once a week is stupid. But limiters make for interesting & creative gameplay. I'm interested to see what methods people come up with to make world travel faster between world quests - something that hasn't really existed in the game at any point.

I obviously agree with the first sentence, and it's similar for wanting others not to fly - it's similarly stupid. That was my point.

If not flying makes it more interesting for you, fine, go by ground. Just don't force me to do the same, that's all I ask.

[Bruunch]

"I can't give a detailed estimate of exactly when the next step will unlock. We have a solid patch plan in the works, but we need to remain flexible to adapt to player needs once the expansion launches, and there's no way to even hint at a date without it sounding like a promise."

To me it's a shame that they feel that way. Damned if they do, damned if they don't

[rda]

"I can't give a detailed estimate of exactly when the next step will unlock. We have a solid patch plan in the works, but we need to remain flexible to adapt to player needs once the expansion launches, and there's no way to even hint at a date without it sounding like a promise."

To me it's a shame that they feel that way. Damned if they do, damned if they don't

Here's how to undamn it: enable flying in the first achievement, have next achievements reward something else (I don't know, titles, increased speed, mounts).

[Raiju]

I obviously agree with the first sentence, and it's similar for wanting others not to fly - it's similarly stupid. That was my point.

If not flying makes it more interesting for you, fine, go by ground. Just don't force me to do the same, that's all I ask.

see my edit, before your post. Games are designed around limiting us at all points. The gear we get is a limiter, cooldowns on our abilities are a limiter, nearly everything in this game intentionally has limit that is designed with the intention of being healthy to the game overall.

This isn't my limit, this is the game designers limit that I happen to be interested and agree with for now. Needless to say the interest will die out and I'll want to fly again 6 months after launch, but it's a question of whether patch content can alleviate that at all. I imagine I'll be in the same boat at some point, but right now it's interesting. If the majority could fly it wouldn't be interesting.

[rda]

see my edit, before your post. Games are designed around limiting us at all points. The gear we get is a limiter, cooldowns on our abilities are a limiter, nearly everything in this game intentionally has limit that is designed with the intention of being healthy to the game overall.

This isn't my limit, this is the game designers limit that I happen to be interested and agree with for now. Needless to say the interest will die out and I'll want to fly again 6 months after launch, but it's a question of whether patch content can alleviate that at all. I imagine I'll be in the same boat at some point, but right now it's interesting. If the majority could fly it wouldn't be interesting.

It's all fine and good, just remember this when they take away something *you* liked for no reason and someone says "good job, Blizzard".

I have absolutely no issues with you enjoying whatever you are enjoying. I am just at a loss as to why the heck should I be forced to enjoy the same and why the heck you are fine with saying things like "If the majority could fly it wouldn't be interesting". I get that it's not you who is holding flying back, too, but there's a clear asymmetry here, you get what you want and I don't, and you even agree that if it was the reverse (with my hypothetical no raid more than once a week example) it'd be stupid...

[Raiju]

It's all fine and good, just remember this when they take away something *you* don't like for no reason and someone says "good job, Blizzard, I like it".

You mean like old style rares? Tags? brawlers guild?

Yeah been there, done that. It sucks but whatever this game isn't created solely for me and apparently the content I tend to enjoy most is seen as unfair to others.

[rda]

You mean like old style rares? Tags? brawlers guild?

Yeah been there, done that. It sucks but whatever this game isn't created solely for me and apparently the content I tend to enjoy most is seen as unfair to others.

Yes, like that, and that others celebrated when something you liked got removed doesn't make it right for you to celebrate in your turn. Besides, I don't remember anyone campaigning to remove Brawler's Guild, for example. Unlike here with flying where people are somehow fine with saying "I like no flying and I love it that you guys are forced not to fly, it wouldn't have been interesting for me if you could fly".

[Raiju]

Yes, like that, and that others celebrated when something you liked got removed doesn't make it right for you to celebrate in your turn.

Yes it does, people are allowed to say a change they think looks good, looks good. I can point out what content is lost to them / blizzard, but ultimately if noone cares then I just have to decide whether or not I will enjoy the game enough without it.

The idea that someone can't be happy for what they see as a positive change is ridiculous, though.

[rda]

Yes it does, people are allowed to say a change they think looks good, looks good. I can point out what content is lost to them / blizzard, but ultimately if noone cares then I just have to decide whether or not I will enjoy the game enough without it.

The idea that someone can't be happy for what they see as a positive change is ridiculous, though.

We cross-posted.

As I say, the problem is that with no flying you don't simply say "I like it", but you specifically say "I like it and I like that you guys are forced to do same as myself, regardless of what you enjoy by yourselves". That's bad. Period.

It's not the same with removing the Brawler's Guild, for example, nobody was saying "I like that it is removed and I like that you guys can't do it even if you liked it". That'd be rightfully ridiculed. But somehow it became fine to say the same thing regarding no flying...

[Raiju]

Actually many have said they like that it's not getting content added, that interesting bosses get nerfed/taken out of hte core lineup, etc.

Even TRY to suggest rares go back to the old style and you'll be gutted in the relevant sections of these forums. The simple fact is you being able to fly DOES impede on others gameplay. Me being able to lock down old style repeatable rares likewise DOES affect others, because this is a shared world.

If everyone was in their own world you may have a more defensible point, but we're not. Having flying negates near all non-flying methods by default. Everyone knows that, the reason blizzard is repeatedly trying this is they know that and presumably have stats for it.

[rda]

The simple fact is you being able to fly DOES impede on others gameplay. Me being able to lock down old style repeatable rares likewise DOES affect others, because this is a shared world.

I agree that me being able to fly does impede on others gameplay with the way things are now (the number of world quests done per day mattering and travel likely being a hassle, etc), but we had flying for a long time and it was Blizzard who created that rift between players who like flying and those who like no flying, not me.

In reality, it's all inconsequential, because they remove flying not in order to please those who like no flying. They remove flying in order to prolong their little content, that's it. So, it's a double-hit, they remove the thing I liked, and they remove it for the reason I don't like. No wonder I am quite a bit jaded.

[Okacz]

Great that it is out.

Bad that it won't give you flying and is only the first step (yes, like they said before, but that's bad, so that's bad stuff confirming).

Now I want to know when I am going to be able to fly. In fact, I want them to make this very achievement grant flying already, they can make the next steps grant some mounts or whatever.

After WoD, I can't really feel like there is a reason to believe Blizzard on flying. They have their own weird reasons to campaign against it (be it prolonging content, easier world building or just a design decision for the good of the game), and will keep fighting against it. The situation in WoD, and the backlash when they announced "No flying, ever" made them freak out, but who knows, maybe now they will be prepared. And their current iteration of Pathfinder is their safest option to do whatever they really want.

First step should reward you with flight in Broken Isles. The whole point of this achievement is "we wanna make sure you experiance the full available content before flying over it", and the first step is literally about doing ALL the world content they have to offer. Yet, it still gives you no flying, just a Stables buff. I wouldn't be suprised if this will lead to Blizzard releasing another step in patch 7.1 which gives you a ground mount and increased Flight Path speed.

Next up, patch 7.2, when Blizzard announces that they are happy with how Legion plays out without flying, and next step won't give you flying after all. Maybe more ground speed, maybe teleports, maybe higher jumping on mounts. Remember that Blizzard doesn't want to implement flying, and they are the ones making the game.

I think it's 50/50 that this will actually happen. It's their game, their decision, and they might think it's better to let some uproar happen than to change their design. Sucks for me and for all the other players who love flight in WoW and would rather love it expanded, but what can you do. When a group of programmers and designer doesn't want to add a feature, they will do all in their might to avoid it.

[Fang7986]

funny how some of the same people who bitch about no flying are the same ones who want vanilla servers

[rda]

I think it's 50/50 that this will actually happen. It's their game, their decision, and they might think it's better to let some uproar happen than to change their design. Sucks for me and for all the other players who love flight in WoW and would rather love it expanded, but what can you do. When a group of programmers and designer doesn't want to add a feature, they will do all in their might to avoid it.

The irony is that if Legion does well, they will perhaps be more likely to delay flying (making it worse for myself) and if Legion bombs out, they will perhaps add flying back very fast in order to try and help save the sinking ship (making it better for myself).

It's such a stupid choice as to which I'd like better... I guess I prefer Legion to do well, after all, but damn...

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funny how some of the same people who bitch about no flying are the same ones who want vanilla servers

I "bitch about no flying" in that I want flying back asap, and I don't want vanilla servers. I don't think there's a correlation.

[caervek]

So, no flying, Warriors now finished bar tuning and worse than in WoD, Mythic still set to 20m, garrisons back again.

It's like they actually want the game to lose subs at this point >.>

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funny how some of the same people who bitch about no flying are the same ones who want vanilla servers

The difference is, Vanilla was designed to be navigated from the ground and so works well with ground mounts and flight points. WoD on the other hand was designed for flight and so navigating it with ground mounts/FPs is tedious and annoying, and it appears they have repeated this with Legion