No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Deleted]

Actually many have said they like that it's not getting content added, that interesting bosses get nerfed/taken out of hte core lineup, etc.

Even TRY to suggest rares go back to the old style and you'll be gutted in the relevant sections of these forums. The simple fact is you being able to fly DOES impede on others gameplay. Me being able to lock down old style repeatable rares likewise DOES affect others, because this is a shared world.

If everyone was in their own world you may have a more defensible point, but we're not. Having flying negates near all non-flying methods by default. Everyone knows that, the reason blizzard is repeatedly trying this is they know that and presumably have stats for it.

And what exactly is that dramatic impact in your play if I am flying? I play on a PvE server, world PvP is not relevant here. Resource nodes will be shared to some degree for members of the same faction. Rares and important quest mobs have shared tagging. And even without flying these would have been equally a problem.

Do you remember TI and how fast all the rares went down there, because of people overgearing them, or the same thing in Tanaan before flight? If anything, flying helps you get faster to this rare which is already in fight. With flying, you get precious seconds to arrive just in time instead of seeing this rare drop dead before you can do anything.

Sorry, but all of this is very subjective. And when things get subjective, then a win-win-solution should be the aim. I am ok with earning flight, but I am not ok with having to wait to a later content patch when by earning all the achievements I have already shown that I have done all relevant content in the world on the ground.

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The difference is, Vanilla was designed to be navigated from the ground and so works well with ground mounts and flight points. WoD on the other hand was designed for flight and so navigating it with ground mounts/FPs is tedious and annoying, and it appears they have repeated this with Legion

No, WoD was even worse in this regard. It was designed specifially to let us waste time while on ground mounts. Of course has flying trivialised travel in Draenor, because before flying all zones were designed as mazes. Just like in a supermarket which tries to lock their customers down to spending as much time as possible in the store running around.

[rda]

And what exactly is that dramatic impact in your play if I am flying?

Those who do more world quests have more artifact power and higher reputations (which give gear).

[Deleted]

I "bitch about no flying" in that I want flying back asap, and I don't want vanilla servers. I don't think there's a correlation.

Same here. Would not waste any second on a Legacy server if I had time to spare. I'd rather go play anything else. And I hate no flying after reaching max level.

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Those who do more world quests have more artifact power and higher reputations (which give gear).

And why would flying have any impact on this? Did they implement casting while mounted? Can you be in fight or interact with items while flying? Even druids cannot fight in their bird form.

[Raiju]

And what exactly is that dramatic impact in your play if I am flying? I play on a PvE server, world PvP is not relevant here. Resource nodes will be shared to some degree for members of the same faction. Rares and important quest mobs have shared tagging. And even without flying these would have been equally a problem.

The dramatic impact? The loss of creative methods/gameplay created by peoples desire to travel between world quests as fast as possible. If you are flying I feel like I am intentionally having to restrain myself and handicap myself just to get an impression of that content, and even then it won't be comparable to everyone experiencing it and sharing methods.

Do you remember TI and how fast all the rares went down there, because of people overgearing them, or the same thing in Tanaan before flight? If anything, flying helps you get faster to this rare which is already in fight. With flying, you get precious seconds to arrive just in time instead of seeing this rare drop dead before you can do anything.

Outside of golgonarr & the world bosses the TI rares were designed to be soloable extremely quickly in gear, the whole purpose of the island buffs was to make it easier. The only issue present here was when people would pull Huolon (who would usually take 10-15 seconds no matter how geared you were) to a spot that other players couldn't easily hit/loot it - while he was the most desired rare due to dropping a mount.

Non-shared tag rares would've avoided this. People could've still made huolon groups if they wanted due to personal loot.

Tanaan? CRZ is a cancer to it, but personally I found it a lot easier to get to any rare I was on the same side of the map to before flying.

Sorry, but all of this is very subjective. And when things get subjective, then a win-win-solution should be the aim. I am ok with earning flight, but I am not ok with having to wait to a later content patch when by earning all the achievements I have already shown that I have done all relevant content in the world on the ground.

Which part is subjective? That it's a good idea, ofcourse it is. That flying negates a majority of ground content? No, not really. Any form of consideration to ground obstacles goes out the window the moment you can fly. Having every single relevant thing inside a cave doesn't really work unless the next content patch has us raiding The Shire.


Yes, there are items in legion that let you interact while mounted.

[rda]

And why would flying have any impact on this? Did they implement casting while mounted? Can you be in fight or interact with items while flying? Even druids cannot fight in their bird form.

Well, it cuts on travel time, allowing you to do more of them per hour / per evening / whatever. Because travel is a hassle (damn, again)... they want everyone to be equally crippled.

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The dramatic impact? The loss of creative methods/gameplay created by peoples desire to travel between world quests as fast as possible. If you are flying I feel like I am intentionally having to restrain myself and handicap myself just to get an impression of that content, and even then it won't be comparable to everyone experiencing it and sharing methods.

Sorry, that's a BS reason. I gave the real reason above. If we take this BS as a real reason, I will make you a mountain of similar reasons justifying removing and restricting everything. I mean, you might feel like that, whatever, but it can't be a driving force for implementing anything in the game, it just can't.

[Raiju]

Sorry, that's a BS reason. I gave the real reason above.

It's a BS reason to you because you don't see positives in not flying regardless. That doesn't mean the reason isn't valid for many players.

[Pua]

The idea that someone can't be happy for what they see as a positive change is ridiculous, though.

I don't think that's the issue, Raiju.

The issue is that there's simply no reason to delay flying after the meta-achievement is complete; at least for the initial Broken Isles content. There are already patch solutions for flying in the game (like disallowing it on the Isle of Thunder, or using dismount mechanics in Krasarang Wilds), so disallowing it until the developers decide is simply a cynical way of masking the real intent.

I like being on the ground. That will strike people as strange, but it's true. What I don't like is a development stance that provides a way to unlock a feature (which I support), and then doesn't actually unlock said feature (which I don't support).

It's a grubby way of stringing players along, and hints solely that they didn't learn from Warlords.

[rda]

It's a BS reason to you because you don't see positives in not flying regardless. That doesn't mean the reason isn't valid for many players.

(Dammit, I have to learn to stop adding things quickly after posting. A full thought below.)

If we take this BS as a real reason, I will make you a mountain of similar reasons justifying removing and restricting everything. I mean, you might feel like that, whatever, but it can't be a driving force for implementing anything in the game, it just can't.

[Pua]

And why would flying have any impact on this? Did they implement casting while mounted? Can you be in fight or interact with items while flying? Even druids cannot fight in their bird form.

You can get to the quest area much quicker if you can fly there. That means that your artifact power income will be dramatically higher than someone who doesn't fly.

[Deleted]

The dramatic impact? The loss of creative methods/gameplay created by peoples desire to travel between world quests as fast as possible. If you are flying I feel like I am intentionally having to restrain myself and handicap myself just to get an impression of that content, and even then it won't be comparable to everyone experiencing it and sharing methods.



Outside of golgonarr & the world bosses the TI rares were designed to be soloable extremely quickly in gear, the whole purpose of the island buffs was to make it easier. The only issue present here was when people would pull Huolon (who would usually take 10-15 seconds no matter how geared you were) to a spot that other players couldn't easily hit/loot it - while he was the most desired rare due to dropping a mount.

Non-shared tag rares would've avoided this. People could've still made huolon groups if they wanted due to personal loot.

Tanaan? CRZ is a cancer to it, but personally I found it a lot easier to get to any rare I was on the same side of the map to before flying.



Which part is subjective? That it's a good idea, ofcourse it is. That flying negates a majority of ground content? No, not really. Any form of consideration to ground obstacles goes out the window the moment you can fly. Having every single relevant thing inside a cave doesn't really work unless the next content patch has us raiding The Shire.


Yes, there are items in legion that let you interact while mounted.

It is subjective. And most of you anti-flyers seem to have very low self-consciousness and self-determination levels and a weak will so you cannot restrain yourself. Flying is just a scapegoat here.

You don't need to place anything in caves and buildings - although, with Legion and all the ruins and demons, both things could apply easily. Relic hunters either have to dig holes in the ground, or have to go inside something, for example. You can lure people to quests via items which are placed somewhere on the ground. You can attach a number of follower kills to a quest in addition to killing a leader. You can create gauntlets of enemies appearing while you try to retrieve an artifact or to protect an NPC (where you have to stay on the ground, anyway).

Just create interesting content, dammit, and people will stay where they should be. And for travelling between quests at max level - is this really that important? Are you trying to win a race or are you trying to have fun at your own pace?

[Raiju]

@Aviemore that was my stance prior to seeing world quests, too. But now having seen them and having thought about it due to the pathfinder/blue post I'm happy to see how it goes for a short while.

I have no illusions that I will most likely want flying before blizzard intends to implement it, but merely for the first patch (assuming a 4.1/5.1/6.1 style patch) I am looking forward to the 'optimization' that can be done making use of high terrain & gliders, flight path hopping, etc.

This is the first time we're going to have relevant world content at max level that isn't entirely clustered in one area, is the main thing here.
@scubistacy I *CAN* restrain myself, but it feels bad to. That's the crux of the restraining argument not working well. It feels bad to have to artificially restrain yourself for many.

I'm naturally an extremely fast paced player as well. There are times I like to optimize my speed simply to see how much I can. That's an extreme minority thing, but generally people want to burn through content as fast as possible, yes. That's why gating exists (to stop that). Various good analogies are oftne made to how dogs may eat themselves to death. Most players are like that. I've done that in the past, not that I would again.

[Saiona]

So, no flying, Warriors now finished bar tuning and worse than in WoD, Mythic still set to 20m, garrisons back again.

It's like they actually want the game to lose subs at this point >.>

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The difference is, Vanilla was designed to be navigated from the ground and so works well with ground mounts and flight points. WoD on the other hand was designed for flight and so navigating it with ground mounts/FPs is tedious and annoying, and it appears they have repeated this with Legion

Warriors may not be in the best spot on the alpha/beta, but many agree both specs are better than they are on live servers. Arms on live is awful even with tier/trinket (my warrior is 738). Fury has a few problems but it looks to be much more enjoyable than current fury which is just terrible. 20 man Mythic raiding was the best part of WoD what the fuck are you talking about lol. Class halls are not garrisons go do your research.

TLDR: You don't know warriors, boohoo you wont be able to fly for awhile. WHO CARES

[Deleted]

You can get to the quest area much quicker if you can fly there. That means that your artifact power income will be dramatically higher than someone who doesn't fly.

Then please look at the current situation of flying: There are still people who don't have their achievement. These people surely would have the money to buy the skill if it would be available. The bottleneck in BC has been gold - now, gold is not a problem. Now, people are handicapped by not having the achievement. Unlocking flight for all at the same time will not help with this problem, because not everybody will be able to finish the pathfinder achievement ASAP.

In fact, such a system creates a diaspora between players which is far worse than buying flying with gold. With gold, everybody would be equal. 5K is nothing nowadays. All my 24 max level characters have 310% flying. Investing hours into achievements is a thing, though, especially when this achievement has content included which would be skipped by people in the case where it would not be required to fly.

[rda]

And for travelling between quests at max level - is this really that important? Are you trying to win a race or are you trying to have fun at your own pace?

With the way they are designing artifacts, it is important in the short term (not in the long term). Same for reputations.

[Pua]

@Aviemore that was my stance prior to seeing world quests, too. But now having seen them and having thought about it due to the pathfinder/blue post I'm happy to see how it goes for a short while.

What caused your stance to change?

This is the first time we're going to have relevant world content at max level that isn't entirely clustered in one area, is the main thing here.

I get that, and am looking forward to it, but I'm not sure why you'd think that meaningfully changes the approach to the flight meta-achievement. Help me out a bit, bud.

[caervek]

It's a grubby way of stringing players along, and hints solely that they didn't learn from Warlords.

This is what disheartens me about it the most, it's like they learned nothing from the mistakes of Warlords, they saw the insane backlash to the "no flight ever" announcement, they saw how the addition of flight made WoD a much better expansion/experience overnight, and yet they still intend to take the same bat to the knees of Legion, it's bizarre.

[Pua]

In fact, such a system creates a diaspora between players which is far worse than buying flying with gold. With gold, everybody would be equal. 5K is nothing nowadays. All my 24 max level characters have 310% flying. Investing hours into achievements is a thing, though, especially when this achievement has content included which would be skipped by people in the case where it would not be required to fly.

Without wishing to sound too elitist, I believe those who put in a little effort to achieve something should be able to get it prior to those who don't.

[Deleted]

Well, it cuts on travel time, allowing you to do more of them per hour / per evening / whatever. Because travel is a hassle (damn, again)... they want everyone to be equally crippled.

We will not be equally crippled. People, who get the first part of the achievement done earlier, will be riding faster. There you go, a 2 classes society already there, before flying is even unlocked. How is this creating equality?

[Pua]

This is what disheartens me about it the most, it's like they learned nothing from the mistakes of Warlords, they saw the insane backlash to the "no flight ever" announcement, they saw how the addition of flight made WoD a much better expansion/experience overnight, and yet they still intend to take the same bat to the knees of Legion, it's bizarre.

I actually understand the point of the meta-achievement. What's funnier is that I completely agree with it; flight is a convenience that it's appropriate to gate behind playing the game as intended. What saddens me is that it wasn't really flight that caused the issues in Warlords - it was the changing message, the misdirection and deceit, and the complete failure to give players control over when it was earned.

And they're doing exactly the same thing again.

[Deleted]

Without wishing to sound too elitist, I believe those who put in a little effort to achieve something should be able to get it prior to those who don't.

The same thing is with forking out the money earlier than people who are either too broke or too greedy to pay for the skill.

Anyway, what is more important, reward or equality? You can reward achievements without creating player inequality in their transportation.