Child porn suspect jailed indefinitely for refusing to decrypt hard drives

[Hyve]

What if he has plenty to hide, and none of it has to do with child porn?

What could he have on there that is worse than Child Pornography, and still legal?

[SodiumChloride]

What could he have on there that is worse than Child Pornography, and still legal?

Accounting information that could get him arrested for tax evasion or organised crime?

Who knows?

Maybe he doesn't even remember the passwords ... and they are asking from him the impossible.

[Templar 331]

Isn't this against the 5th Amendment? By unlocking those hard drives he's essentially testifying against himself. It's up to the authorities to bring evidence against someone, not have them bring evidence against themselves.

[Mixxy]

Isn't this against the 5th Amendment? By unlocking those hard drives he's essentially testifying against himself. It's up to the authorities to bring evidence against someone, not have them bring evidence against themselves.

It's weird to see how many people are ignoring the Constitution. Usually it's the first and last thing anyone brings up in a legal argument.

[Deleted]

It's like that XKCD cartoon where the criminal gloats that nobody can decrypt his drive but then authorities hit him with a wrench until he agrees to comply.


http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...t-hard-drives/

A Philadelphia man suspected of possessing child pornography has been in jail for seven months and counting after being found in contempt of a court order demanding that he decrypt two password-protected hard drives.

The suspect, a former Philadelphia Police Department sergeant, has not been charged with any child porn crimes. Instead, he remains indefinitely imprisoned in Philadelphia's Federal Detention Center for refusing to unlock two drives encrypted with Apple's FileVault software in a case that once again highlights the extent to which the authorities are going to crack encrypted devices. The man is to remain jailed "until such time that he fully complies" with the decryption order.

The suspect's attorney, Federal Public Defender Keith Donoghue, urged a federal appeals court on Tuesday to release his client immediately, pending the outcome of appeals. "Not only is he presently being held without charges, but he has never in his life been charged with a crime," Donoghue wrote (PDF) in his brief to the 3rd US Circuit Court of Appeals.

The government successfully cited a 1789 law known as the All Writs Act to compel (PDF) the suspect to decrypt two hard drives it believes contain child pornography.

The authorities have called two witnesses. One was the suspect's sister who claimed she looked at child pornography with her brother at his house. The other was a forensic examiner who testified that it was his "best guess" that child pornography was on the drives," Donoghue wrote. The investigation began in 2015 when Pennsylvania prosecutors were monitoring the online network Freenet and executed a search warrant of the man's home.

Donoghue wrote that investigators had decrypted a Mac Pro using a recovery key discovered on the iPhone 5S the authorities seized from his client's residence. He said no child pornography was found. The authorities want the suspect to decrypt two external drives discovered in the search.

Fuck the rights he thinks he has.
He should allow the authorities access to his Hard Drive. It's clear that he has something to hide and that he's a person of interest. It's not like these agencies throw a dart at a map and say "Let's go hassle this guy today."
If he has nothing to hide, he has absolutely nothing to worry about. Whether or not he has illegal material on his hard drive, he's acting like a complete penis.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Furthermore, going to a police station, or even a judge and saying "I KILLED 15 PEOPLE, MURDERED THEM I DID" wont get you thrown in prison (maybe a psych ward). If you dont divulge any information or evidence regarding those murders, you cant be found guilty...charged or and open investigation, but even with your confession, it doesnt mean jack shit

That is a Strawman. I've never stated there is enough evidence to convict him. All I've said is they have ample evidence to investigate him. Very different concepts


To put it in terms of your example. If you go to a police station and say "I killed 15 people" when the police are looking for a guy that killed 15 people... they do have sufficient cause to investigate you for murder, do they not?

[Puri]

"Innocent until proven guilty" has been encrypted, too. It's always easy to sell something like this by using "child porn" or "terrorism", and it might very well apply in that case. But that also opens the doors for other cases, and it greatly reduces personal liberties.

[Foosha]

That is a Strawman. I've never stated there is enough evidence to convict him. All I've said is they have ample evidence to investigate him. Very different concepts


To put it in terms of your example. If you go to a police station and say "I killed 15 people" when the police are looking for a guy that killed 15 people... they do have sufficient cause to investigate you for murder, do they not?

So investigate him. You cant blackmail someone. You can't catch-22 someone.

Investigate sure, but throw him in bars because he isnt complying with the investigation? Preposterous and would get thrown out immediately

[Mixxy]

Fuck the rights he thinks he has.
He should allow the authorities access to his Hard Drive. It's clear that he has something to hide and that he's a person of interest. It's not like these agencies throw a dart at a map and say "Let's go hassle this guy today."
If he has nothing to hide, he has absolutely nothing to worry about. Whether or not he has illegal material on his hard drive, he's acting like a complete penis.

Assuming someone is guilty just because other people are suspicious of them is a preeeetty dangerous slope.

[Foosha]

Fuck the rights he thinks he has.
He should allow the authorities access to his Hard Drive. It's clear that he has something to hide and that he's a person of interest. It's not like these agencies throw a dart at a map and say "Let's go hassle this guy today."
If he has nothing to hide, he has absolutely nothing to worry about. Whether or not he has illegal material on his hard drive, he's acting like a complete penis.

Are you a troll? Privacy is a huge part of a democratic society. If you placed a camera on someone 24/7, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE would be in jail/fined for something. Everyone has something to hide, durrr, it's called a private life for a reason

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So investigate him. You cant blackmail someone. You can't catch-22 someone.

Investigate sure, but throw him in bars because he isnt complying with the investigation? Preposterous and would get thrown out immediately

except it hasnt been thrown out

[Deleted]

Are you a troll? Privacy is a huge part of a democratic society. If you placed a camera on someone 24/7, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE would be in jail/fined for something. Everyone has something to hide, durrr, it's called a private life for a reason

If the police came to my door demanding to look at my computer because I was under suspicion of being in possession of child pornography, you can bet your ass I'd be handing that shit over to them so I could clear my name as soon as possible.
Only a guilty person or a fucking idiot would start stamping their feet and complaining that their liberties were being harmed. If it's that big a deal then go start a fucking support group or have a protest outside city hall.
Like I said (assuming the guy isn't a complete fucking retard), if he was innocent then he'd want to clear his name as soon as possible. Particularly for an allegation with such strong social stigma attached to it.

[Foosha]

If the police came to my door demanding to look at my computer because I was under suspicion of being in possession of child pornography, you can bet your ass I'd be handing that shit over to them so I could clear my name as soon as possible.
Only a guilty person or a fucking idiot would start stamping their feet and complaining that their liberties were being harmed. If it's that big a deal then go start a fucking support group or have a protest outside city hall.
Like I said (assuming the guy isn't a complete fucking retard), if he was innocent then he'd want to clear his name as soon as possible. Particularly for an allegation with such strong social stigma attached to it.

Oh too bad, they came for your child pornography but instead found your underground betting activity

You go to jail for tax evasion and illegal gambling. You lose

[Deleted]

Oh too bad, they came for your child pornography but instead found your underground betting activity

You go to jail for tax evasion and illegal gambling. You lose

Besides a pirated copy of Adobe Photoshop, plus a bunch of pirated mp3s/TV Shows/Movies , I'm in possession of absolutely nothing unlawful. Neither do I partake in any criminal activity beyond downloading said content.
I'm pretty happy to take my chances that the police aren't going to pursue charges against my illicit collection of Game of Thrones episodes during an investigation into whether I've got videos of children being abused on my hard drive.
I'd sure as fuck take that risk to clear my name.

[Foosha]

Besides a pirated copy of Adobe Photoshop, plus a bunch of pirated mp3s/TV Shows/Movies , I'm in possession of absolutely nothing unlawful. Neither do I partake in any criminal activity beyond downloading said content.
I'm pretty happy to take my chances that the police aren't going to pursue charges against my illicit collection of Game of Thrones episodes during an investigation into whether I've got videos of children being abused on my hard drive.
I'd sure as fuck take that risk to clear my name.

Oh...then you are fined an obscene amount of money or jail. You lose. It's against the law after all and on your hard drive
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33578180

[Cthulhu 2020]

Fourth and Fifth amendments protect him. If they have reasonable suspicion they can get a warrant and get just about anything they want on him. Seems they don't have that. As much as I think pedos should rot in jail for their entire life, if they have no way of knowing if he is one or not, it's unconstitutional to force him to turn over his stuff.

[Independent voter]

Fourth and Fifth amendments protect him. If they have reasonable suspicion they can get a warrant and get just about anything they want on him. Seems they don't have that. As much as I think pedos should rot in jail for their entire life, if they have no way of knowing if he is one or not, it's unconstitutional to force him to turn over his stuff.

Well, it looks like it was the federal court who tried him and issued the ruling. That's the big leagues, not some backwards city court, and they don't often make mistakes. It will be interesting if the Supreme Court decides to hear his appeal and interesting to see what they rule.

[Deleted]

Oh...then you are fined an obscene amount of money or jail. You lose. It's against the law after all and on your hard drive
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33578180

Risk a current maximum of two years in Jail (which would never stand, these terms are reserved for distributors of pirate material, not possessors) in exchange for clearing my name as a suspected paedophile? Fuck yes.
I can guarantee you 100% that if you were under suspicion of being in possession of child porn, you would be begging for the authorities to take your PC away to have your name cleared - irrespective of what other comparatively minor illegal content you might be in possession of. If not, you're either a complete idiot, or guilty.

[SodiumChloride]

Fuck the rights he thinks he has.
He should allow the authorities access to his Hard Drive. It's clear that he has something to hide and that he's a person of interest. It's not like these agencies throw a dart at a map and say "Let's go hassle this guy today."
If he has nothing to hide, he has absolutely nothing to worry about. Whether or not he has illegal material on his hard drive, he's acting like a complete penis.

If you are going to ignore the constitution as and when you feel like it, might as well not have it.

[Foosha]

Risk a current maximum of two years in Jail (which would never stand, these terms are reserved for distributors of pirate material, not possessors) in exchange for clearing my name as a suspected paedophile? Fuck yes.
I can guarantee you 100% that if you were under suspicion of being in possession of child porn, you would be begging for the authorities to take your PC away to have your name cleared - irrespective of what other comparatively minor illegal content you might be in possession of. If not, you're either a complete idiot, or guilty.

Basic law is that the accuser has to bring the evidence, not the other way around. If it were the other way around, people could go off saying person A did this or that with no recourse and the person being hauled off because he has no evidence to prove himself innocent other than his good nature or whatever. Pfftttt

The government can come in and at a whim say... BY THE POWER BESTOWED FROM MY IDIOT CONSTITUENTS, I HERE DECREE THAT ANY POLITICAL ADVERSARY IS A TERRORIST. COME FORTH WITH EVIDENCE AS TO WHY YOU ARE NOT A TERRORIST

Democracy just doesnt work that way dude. If you want that kind of justice go live in Somalia, the middle east or Communist russia