Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I have no interest in nostalgia. However, I played on Nostalrius for over a year, and my time there was some of the best gaming of my life.

Never played Vanilla either, started at the very beginning of Wotlk. Discovered Vanilla through Nostlarius, fell in love with it. It was a genuinely different game back then.

[Uurdz]

Sure, difference being the market. MMOs were up and coming at that point. Now they're gone and fading.
Other genres (MOBA, FPS) rule and have integrated MMO-like features for their advantage.

Any evidence to back that up?

[Deleted]

Oh well, this is going to become funny.

I already bought popcorn.

[GiefEpixe]

Instead of trying to get Vanilla servers up, people should rather push for game design choices that they appreciated back then to be included in today's version. I can understand players craving for some of the old less casual game style, still it should be part of the current iteration and not the one from ten years ago. That's what we should try to get them to do and spend resources on.

Then again, this whole Nost rumpus is probably the only way the devs will realise there's actually a significant demand for that and that it's the core reason why the game is currently going down the drain.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Oh well, this is going to become funny.

I already bought popcorn.

I would've bought doritos and mountain dew, but I'm not that type of gamer. But definitely looking forward to the announcement.

[Unlimited Anza]

I have to admit regardless of anything that comes out of these talks I do have to say this feels more like the old Blizzard then ever before. The Blizzard that talked to the community and explained why they did things and took responsibility for those changes. Not at all like we've gotten in WoD with them just not saying much of anything or in general just having a very large problem with communication on every freaking topic (Ian saying 6.1 should have been 6.0.5 then less then a week later Cory calling 6.1 a major patch, the whole flying debacle, ect).

The fact that they did an about face on Nostalrius (they would not be talking to them if they were still going to sue them) and legacy servers (its pretty much an okay maybe if we can figure it out instead of the endless NOOOOOOO we've gotten until now) not to mention Mike willing to actually meet with Mark Kern after that video and everything. Again nothing may actually end up happening but its clear that they are being reasonable and it feels much more like the old Blizzard then the current one that just felt like Activison was running everything.

If I had to guess on whats going to happen if anything... I think we might see Nostalrius' team be hired by blizzard to run an official WoW legacy server possibly using the same emulated client they already had been using beforehand just setting up an actual subscription model or working it into the current one that already exists. I don't think it would come out like super fast but if they used what they already had built up Nostalrius with it may not actually take that long to actually set it up... then either bake the subscription into the current subscription or have a small separate subscription just for it say maybe 5-10$ at max with a discount if you already subscribe to the current game.

But again nothing may come from this and people will just keep playing on Private servers time and time again.

[GrimThunderbrew]

Lmao I don't understand why people want old servers?????????????? With content you've done before ???????? I get the game was harder back then, but don't ruin the game for the rest of us by making them do this. We'll get less content while they set up these dumb servers, we don't need more people moving onto another seperate server to make the current servers more abandoned. You'll play the server for like a month, just like I would, and then you'll leave and complain because the lack of content.

You'll never get that feeling back of playing on a vanilla server.

Y'all want talent trees back????? Why?????? It's like diablo, there's only a few viable builds and if you stray off that path then you are punished for it by lack of damage or anything. Pointless

You want a challenge levelling ??????? Don't use boas or do dungeons, killing stuff isn't as easy as it is without heirlooms and talents and all that funky stuff

The dev team is bigger than ever, but you're getting less content. I doubt a little team working on legacy servers would in any significant way affect the main game. Also leveling in retail is way too easy, doesn't matter how much you gimp yourself. And besides, how boring it is to not see your character progress, when you're only gaining abilities. And you can't say that we'll never get the feeling of vanilla back, because plenty of people did on Nostalrius.

[Tackhisis]

I think we might see Nostalrius' team be hired by blizzard to run an official WoW legacy server possibly using the same emulated client they already had been using beforehand

No way. (1) No one is going expose the clientele personal data to them to access the billing, and (2) the Nost server was a buggy mess: quests, pathing, LoS, stealth, talents, all those were broken. Endorsing this crap and distributing an unsafe client will be a suicide for Blizzard.

[Struggle]

I have to admit regardless of anything that comes out of these talks I do have to say this feels more like the old Blizzard then ever before. The Blizzard that talked to the community and explained why they did things and took responsibility for those changes. Not at all like we've gotten in WoD with them just not saying much of anything or in general just having a very large problem with communication on every freaking topic (Ian saying 6.1 should have been 6.0.5 then less then a week later Cory calling 6.1 a major patch, the whole flying debacle, ect).

The fact that they did an about face on Nostalrius (they would not be talking to them if they were still going to sue them) and legacy servers (its pretty much an okay maybe if we can figure it out instead of the endless NOOOOOOO we've gotten until now) not to mention Mike willing to actually meet with Mark Kern after that video and everything. Again nothing may actually end up happening but its clear that they are being reasonable and it feels much more like the old Blizzard then the current one that just felt like Activison was running everything.

If I had to guess on whats going to happen if anything... I think we might see Nostalrius' team be hired by blizzard to run an official WoW legacy server possibly using the same emulated client they already had been using beforehand just setting up an actual subscription model or working it into the current one that already exists. I don't think it would come out like super fast but if they used what they already had built up Nostalrius with it may not actually take that long to actually set it up... then either bake the subscription into the current subscription or have a small separate subscription just for it say maybe 5-10$ at max with a discount if you already subscribe to the current game.

But again nothing may come from this and people will just keep playing on Private servers time and time again.

I doubt they'll be hired, but everything else you said I agree with. This is something that's also giving off a nostalgic vibe of pre-Activision Blizzard, and I'm glad. I'm also nervous because, as you said, for years it's just been "NO!" Getting my hopes up of being able to resub and play Vanilla and BC again is going to hurt my heart if it doesn't happen.

[Eleccybubb]

I would've bought doritos and mountain dew, but I'm not that type of gamer. But definitely looking forward to the announcement.

Tbh I only like Chilli Heatwave when it comes to Doritos so I'm sat here nomming on em . But yeah updates with Kern and Nost there should be interesting. Kern I don't give 2 shits about he just wants 15 minutes in the spotlight imo but Blizzard and the Nost team together I'm interested in.

[Adoxe]

Oh well, this is going to become funny.

I already bought popcorn.

Your hate towards everything and everyone that made WoW great once is quickly becoming annoying.

[Deleted]

MMORPGs are doing better than ever in the West (where most of the money is made). There's GW2, FFXIV, EVE, Minecraft, Rust, etc. Heck, even vanilla WoW on a hacked together private server did great. The market has grown, while WoW is losing players. Blizzard should take a really hard look at why the retail WoW is losing so many subs while the MMO market is booming.

Out of which only two games have the same business model. EVE has been static for the past 3-4 years. It's not growing. FFXIV is supposed to be popular, but no one knows for real because they don't report subs, just accounts.

MMOs are niche games. They all live in that 500k-1M sub range. WoW was anomaly that was in the right place at the right time. It captured the zeitgeist of the moment - but has been declining since. Nothing is going to stop that - just delay. They're never going to be 10M sub stable because there's never going to be 10M niche players. They pop in, play for a moment then go play something else. Only the "true" MMORPG gang stay subbed. And that gang isn't very big.

MMOs are a niche. WoW is anomaly.

- - - Updated - - -

Any evidence to back that up?

Open your eyes?

[Simplex]

Any evidence to back that up?

http://steamcharts.com/top
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/l...ports-in-china
I'm sure those games (LoL, Dota 2 and CS:GO) didn't just magically conjure their playerbases out of thin air without affecting the MMO market

[darxide]

So I'm sure you'll keep this in mind next time you vote, right?

I didn't realize Blizzard was running for public office.

[anon5123]

Instead of trying to get Vanilla servers up, people should rather push for game design choices that they appreciated back then to be included in today's version.

The problem is that Vanilla and WoD are so drastically different from each other, that you can't just make a few changes and have it be just as good.

To make retail like vanilla, you'd have to completely change a lot of aspects of the game. From class balance to itemization to talents to quest flow, to....etc.

[Uurdz]

http://steamcharts.com/top
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/l...ports-in-china
I'm sure those games (LoL, Dota 2 and CS:GO) didn't just magically conjure their playerbases out of thin air without affecting the MMO market

Doesn't prove mmo's are gone and fading.

[Shridevi]

I played WoW since the vanilla beta stress tests in 2004, and bought the game the day it came out. That first week of playing WoW in beta form was the best week of my life, including any time spent with girlfriends, expensive vacations, getting drunk with close friends, etc. I played every expansion since, and quit WoD a year ago. I recently played on Nostalrius for 3-4 months with a lvl 60 hunter until it was shut down.

I understand player loyalty to Blizzard, but a vanilla legacy server is absolutely necessary. As Mark Kern said, it is part of gaming history, and most will enjoy it far more than WoD.

My first observations going back to vanilla:
- I truly respect the world, because a mob of my level can solo me. I pay attention to what is there, not to my minimap to see where to go for a quest, not on theorycrafting. Pulling mobs is an art form; pulling one extra mob easily becomes a wipe. No aoe leveling.
- You need people around you to complete quests, socializing is required.
- You care about gold, it means something, and budgeting is essential.
- Phenomena in game actually exist in game. If it's there, it's there. No phasing, no cut scenes, and the scenes that exist other people can also see.
- Gear is tangible and you respect it. Sometimes you buy white gear or equip greys. Swords look like actual swords. Cities aren't packed with people wearing glowing neon-colored weapons.
- Valid universe. Basically Orcs vs Humans, like the original games. The mounts make sense and don't go overboard. No pandas, worgen, draenei. The setting actually looks medieval. There are farms, castles, lumber mills, nothing weird.
- The zones are mystical and beautiful. It's like a Zelda game, almost every zone is a comforting fantasy setting, with a few darker zones for upper level content.
- The older character stats and mechanics are cool. Skill levels, talent trees, spell rankings, a variety of spells to have fun with (many of which were removed), realistic hunter dead zone, way less self-heals, way less defensive and offensive cooldowns, true respect for warlocks and their ability to summon, true respect for buff classes like pallies or druids, true advantages and disadvantages to classes when forming a dungeon group (druids only have battle res), etc.

Negative observations:
- Terrible pvp
- People bring their WoD min-maxing mindset to the game, so there is way more theorycrafting than back in the day.
- Bugs
- Toxic, elitist, nerd-raging, sometimes racist community

[lonely zergling]

true respect for buff classes like pallies

You better have respect for someone buffing the whole raid with blessings that only last 5 minutes!

Classic Holy Pally worst mechanics ever.

[Ciddy]

That meeting between Nostalrius devs and Blizzard is interesting. I'm not sure what (if anything) will come of it, but I'll be curious to see how that meeting goes.

Although I have a feeling it's going to be something like "we're still not having anything to do with classic servers, but we totally let them come to our office and talked to them for an hour"

[Nehezbegar]

That meeting between Nostalrius devs and Blizzard is interesting. I'm not sure what (if anything) will come of it, but I'll be curious to see how that meeting goes.

Although I have a feeling it's going to be something like "we're still not having anything to do with classic servers, but we totally let them come to our office and talked to them for an hour"

Ye i am afraid it will be more or less a "school trip" to Blizz HQ and nothing will come out of this. At least Nost devs will have some fun there, hehe