Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

In other words, you cannot prove a hypothetical future event until it occurs (if it does?)

I have no idea. I hope blizzard finds a better solution than classic realms.

As i already suggested, i believe WoW going f2p would adress a large part of the legacy-realm players. Beside the fact that f2p is way more fair than paying subs for large content droughts.

I can see potential here. Rym's Unprovability Quandry?

Thank your very much for being funny.

[Sliske]

I think there are better solutions than classic realms. I already made a statement in this thread.

Classic realms will only appeal people for a short time. Turning WoW f2p will appeal a lot of people for a longer time.

Just no.

There are many free to play games that are dead. Just because a game is f2p it will mean it is appealing. A game has to be fun to be appealing. Also, WoD and MoP and most of the patches we've had since Cataclysm 4.0 have appealed for a 'short time', which is a stark contrast to 1.0 > 3.3, which appealed to people for 6-12 months.

The absurdity that vanilla realms wouldn't be highly popular for years is purely ridiculous. I don't even like vanilla and I can admit it. Why can't you? Why are you so obtuse that you sit in this thread for days arguing against other peoples fun?

[Zandalarian Paladin]

You have to understand, Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius pissed off an amazing number of people that left even us at Nostalrius surprised.

For instance, today we learned that Luke Lafreniere (@LinusTech), of Linus Tech Tips fame (a famous youtuber) and his Dad played Nostalrius.

Then, there is Jon Jafari (@JonTronShow), another famous Youtuber. His video about Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius got 2.5 MILLION views.

Then there is Chance Morris (@Sodapoppintv), another widely popular Youtuber, and literally dozens of other people from the Twitch and Streamer community.
Literally, it was as if Blizzard kicked the hornets' nest.

All these people used Twitch and You Tube to make their displeasure with Blizzard known, and Blizzard suddenly got hit with an amazingly high wave of refund requests and subcription cancellations that mentioned "Nostalrius".

We were surpised at one point from Twitter posts by Blizzard retail subscribers (most of us no longer have an active Blizzard sub) that told us that they had hit Blizzard with refunds and cancellations that we had never asked.

#NostalriusBegins became a popular movement, largely due to Chance Morris, Jon Jafari, Kungen and the Twitch community, and then it bit Blizzard up the arse.

AFAIC that's carmic justice; what goes around, comes around.

I would like to thank once again Mr. Mike Morhaime and Blizzard Entertainment for being so nice to us.

This thread should be about these kind of posts. For once, some facts - and a reality that legacy servers would be a positive outcome for everybody.

[Eapoe]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.php...do=showresults

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...anilla-servers

Just examples of how you are a vocal minority. You are not just the minority, you are even more so as the vocal minority. At least many of the people on this No side won't spew their ignorance. They at least just say no and move on with their lives.

And bye. Don't let the thread hit you on the way out.

So your 2 links showed...1200 people voted with only 645 wanting Classic servers, and that 672 (42.5%) players wouldn't even play it if it were free. Some thing do not add up to previous posts me-thinks ("WE'D PAY IF IT HAPPENED!!!).
So, now that you have stated multiple times that minority/majority doesn't matter you now take the stance that people who voted are a minority? Which is it? Minority/Majority counts or it doesn't.
Also, just to emphasize some previous points alongside yours. People going for a Legacy server thru forum posts, trolling, and the petition are 200k+ of the so called 1 million (total, not active) subs on Nost, so yes, you are a VOCAL minority of people who played on Nost since 1/2-all of the Nost playerbase is not speaking up with you.
Now going with your point, yes, the people who hit no to Legacy servers are a vocal minority represented in that poll, much like how the petition signers are the vocal minority from Nost.

[Deficineiron]

I believe this is a minority opinion simply because WotLK was WoW most successful expansion and came off the heels of Blizzard removing the arbitrary gating mechanisms behind raiding in Vanilla/TBC. I don't think 4 raid difficulties is the best direction, either, but I certainly didn't like having to clear an entire tier's worth of raid content just to unlock a single character for relevant content.

I see no rational basis for claiming wotlk was the most successful. Both classic and bc could be argued to have been that, though.

[Eliseus]

So much for stereotypes.

Good arguments > ad hominem to declare all those who oppose legacy servers "toxic"

He was responding to me on the type of people you guys have portrayed yourself to be on this forum. You can't argue against a claim that is non-existent when they personal attack you rather than providing anything to the argument. All you can point out is what an ad hominem they are. Unless you think it is our job to provide arguments against something that doesn't exist. Shall I also go outside and just start yelling at the wall?

- - - Updated - - -

Shhhhh quiet. You're not allowed to point out that the time when the game was the most popular was the expansion when they removed all the stupid bullshit waiting nonsense and let more people see the actual end-game content.

Wait, so now you agree the game was more popular back then?

[Deleted]

All these people used Twitch and You Tube to make their displeasure with Blizzard known, and Blizzard suddenly got hit with an amazingly high wave of refund requests and subcription cancellations that mentioned "Nostalrius".

How do you know that? Do you have access to the list of quit reasons?

AFAIK blizzard does not share those statistics, so i wonder what your sources are.

I would like to thank once again Mr. Mike Morhaime and Blizzard Entertainment for being so nice to us.

They are great guys, right. Doing it all for the players.

[Eliseus]

Nobody waltz into those because it took forever to get into them.

So much fun >.>

And sorry, but I don't believe you. I don't know any guild besides the very highest end that just steamroll new raids on Normal from the very beginning.

I don't know any guilds that didn't unless they were bad.

[Deficineiron]

You have to understand, Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius pissed off an amazing number of people that left even us at Nostalrius surprised.

For instance, today we learned that Luke Lafreniere (@LinusTech), of Linus Tech Tips fame (a famous youtuber) and his Dad played Nostalrius.

Then, there is Jon Jafari (@JonTronShow), another famous Youtuber. His video about Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius got 2.5 MILLION views.

Then there is Chance Morris (@Sodapoppintv), another widely popular Youtuber, and literally dozens of other people from the Twitch and Streamer community.
Literally, it was as if Blizzard kicked the hornets' nest.

All these people used Twitch and You Tube to make their displeasure with Blizzard known, and Blizzard suddenly got hit with an amazingly high wave of refund requests and subcription cancellations that mentioned "Nostalrius".

We were surpised at one point from Twitter posts by Blizzard retail subscribers (most of us no longer have an active Blizzard sub) that told us that they had hit Blizzard with refunds and cancellations that we had never asked.

#NostalriusBegins became a popular movement, largely due to Chance Morris, Jon Jafari, Kungen and the Twitch community, and then it bit Blizzard up the arse.

AFAIC that's carmic justice; what goes around, comes around.

I would like to thank once again Mr. Mike Morhaime and Blizzard Entertainment for being so nice to us.

Are you affiliated with NOst? (you use 'we'), if so, can you give a 30-day active sub number for just prior to the c&d being received? the 10-day number is obviously a more stringent standard but is hard for industry comparisons.

but now that I think of it, I think the big issue for blizzard was seeing legion refund demands, reduced legion pre-pay rate, and sub cancellations, as well as other stuff. They may not understand mmo's but activision-blizzard sure as hell understands money.

[Varaben]

Then don't play on easy difficulties?
You're saying that you'd rather not see a boss at all, right?

I'm obviously saying I'd rather see the boss once, since that's exactly what I said. Am I just falling for a troll or is this "logic" just inescapable?

People go down the path of least resistance. This same argument was made about flying too. If you don't want to fly, just use your ground mount only. This just smacks of a complete ignorance of human psychology. No one handicaps themselves to increase difficulty. Well, a few people might, but 99% wont. Choices aren't choices when some arbitrarily slow down or weaken the player. Those are no longer choices that 99% of players would choose.

Are we playing the same game? Are you saying players should take gear off to increase difficulty? Who would sign up for that? This is why challenge modes are a failed content type. Very few people want to sign up to weaken themselves.

[Eliseus]

You have to understand, Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius pissed off an amazing number of people that left even us at Nostalrius surprised.

For instance, today we learned that Luke Lafreniere (@LinusTech), of Linus Tech Tips fame (a famous youtuber) and his Dad played Nostalrius.

Then, there is Jon Jafari (@JonTronShow), another famous Youtuber. His video about Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius got 2.5 MILLION views.

Then there is Chance Morris (@Sodapoppintv), another widely popular Youtuber, and literally dozens of other people from the Twitch and Streamer community.
Literally, it was as if Blizzard kicked the hornets' nest.

All these people used Twitch and You Tube to make their displeasure with Blizzard known, and Blizzard suddenly got hit with an amazingly high wave of refund requests and subcription cancellations that mentioned "Nostalrius".

We were surpised at one point from Twitter posts by Blizzard retail subscribers (most of us no longer have an active Blizzard sub) that told us that they had hit Blizzard with refunds and cancellations that we had never asked.

#NostalriusBegins became a popular movement, largely due to Chance Morris, Jon Jafari, Kungen and the Twitch community, and then it bit Blizzard up the arse.

AFAIC that's carmic justice; what goes around, comes around.

I would like to thank once again Mr. Mike Morhaime and Blizzard Entertainment for being so nice to us.

Exactly this. Thank you Blizzard!

[RickJamesLich]

this is simply a lie per default

Legacy servers are going to bring more players back, not only that but they can help retain players during content droughts. Long story short the game is going to get more subscribers even if it tanks, and if it doesn't tank, and is massively successful, well I think it's safe to say blizzard stands to make a lot of money. A lot of that shit would likely go back into the retail version of the game. So blizzard wins, retail players win, and legacy players win. What's the problem?

[Sliske]

Nobody waltz into those because it took forever to get into them.

So much fun >.>

And sorry, but I don't believe you. I don't know any guild besides the very highest end that just steamroll new raids on Normal from the very beginning.

I raided in a w600-800 guild for 3 years. We cleared every raid released on normal in 1 day. And in fact, we were slow too, most guilds our rank did it in half our pace. The first 80% of bosses are one shots and the last 1 or 2 are 4-5 wipes MAX.

And for reference, w600-800 guilds is 2-3 hours raids, 2-3 days a week where people think 80th percentile parses is great.

[Deficineiron]

I have no idea. I hope blizzard finds a better solution than classic realms.

As i already suggested, i believe WoW going f2p would adress a large part of the legacy-realm players. Beside the fact that f2p is way more fair than paying subs for large content droughts.



Thank your very much for being funny.

I do try, it is the only way to stay sane on these threads. Is this permission to name it after you? I am still a bit irked I cannot credit the inventor of the Tedium Rule but he is a bit of a difficult personality and doesn't appreciate the fame he would receive.

Rym's Excellent Unprovability Conundrum?

[Eliseus]

So your 2 links showed...1200 people voted with only 645 wanting Classic servers, and that 672 (42.5%) players wouldn't even play it if it were free. Some thing do not add up to previous posts me-thinks ("WE'D PAY IF IT HAPPENED!!!).
So, now that you have stated multiple times that minority/majority doesn't matter you now take the stance that people who voted are a minority? Which is it? Minority/Majority counts or it doesn't.
Also, just to emphasize some previous points alongside yours. People going for a Legacy server thru forum posts, trolling, and the petition are 200k+ of the so called 1 million (total, not active) subs on Nost, so yes, you are a VOCAL minority of people who played on Nost since 1/2-all of the Nost playerbase is not speaking up with you.
Now going with your point, yes, the people who hit no to Legacy servers are a vocal minority represented in that poll, much like how the petition signers are the vocal minority from Nost.

Actually, he asked for proof. I gave him samples. The vocal minority/majority don't matter in the argument. I simply did what you guys will not. Provided something. Some of you have jumped so far as to claim the current WoW population doesn't want Legacy servers. So again, I went and provided samples of how much of the vocal minority you guys are. Proof again, was provided. Where is yours?

[Deleted]

Just no.

There are many free to play games that are dead.

WoW will not die only because it changes the payment system.

Just because a game is f2p it will mean it is appealing. A game has to be fun to be appealing. Also, WoD and MoP and most of the patches we've had since Cataclysm 4.0 have appealed for a 'short time', which is a stark contrast to 1.0 > 3.3, which appealed to people for 6-12 months.

And the fact the game was new in 1.0+ up to TBC. I dont know if 3.3 in special created so much player appeal. The numbers already stagnated at that point of the life cycle.

The absurdity that vanilla realms wouldn't be highly popular for years is purely ridiculous. I don't even like vanilla and I can admit it. Why can't you? Why are you so obtuse that you sit in this thread for days arguing against other peoples fun?

I just argue against the idea that classic realms will raise player retetion. They will be a hype at start, probably millions will come back to play them. Just take a look at nostalrius, which had one million total accounts and just 150 players playing regularily. Means: In the one year of its existence it had a large fluctuation. Add to this the fact that nostalrius was free and substract those which would not pay for classic realms, and the numbers would surely develop even worse.

[Varaben]

Shhhhh quiet. You're not allowed to point out that the time when the game was the most popular was the expansion when they removed all the stupid bullshit waiting nonsense and let more people see the actual end-game content.

Depends if you define popularity by sub growth or total subs. Subs flatlined in wrath, so you could argue it was the turning point in wow's decline. Its all interpretation unfortunately.

[Shridevi]

I hate to break it to anti-legacy people, but all forms of WoW are nostalgia-based. No one randomly decides to start playing WoW in WoD. Everyone who is currently subscribed to WoW is doing so out of nostalgia. The game is 12+ years old. No game lasts that long. It's not Blizzard's fault, they have been trying, I even enjoyed MoP. But things have reached a certain point.

On the basis of all of WoW being nostalgia-driven, does it not make sense to accept reality and make actual nostalgia realms? Seriously, is anyone going to challenge the fact that WoW as a whole is nostalgia-based?

[Sliske]

WoW will not die only because it changes the payment system.



And the fact the game was new in 1.0+ up to TBC. I dont know if 3.3 in special created so much player appeal. The numbers already stagnated at that point of the life cycle.



I just argue against the idea that classic realms will raise player retetion. They will be a hype at start, probably millions will come back to play them. Just take a look at nostalrius, which had one million total accounts and just 150 players playing regularily. Means: In the one year of its existence it had a large fluctuation. Add to this the fact that nostalrius was free and substract those which would not pay for classic realms, and the numbers would surely develop even worse.

1,000,000 accounts and 150,000 regular players can easily be compared to Blizzards 100,000,000 accounts and at peak, 12,500,000 active players

So, even at WoWs peak, on a player retention basis, Nost wins.

You're grasping at straws.

[KrazyK923]

Depends if you define popularity by sub growth or total subs. Subs flatlined in wrath, so you could argue it was the turning point in wow's decline. Its all interpretation unfortunately.

Consistently holding at 11.5 million subscribers for the entire expansion, and even went up to 12 million when 3.3 dropped. The highest the game will ever achieve. That's an amazing feat for a game that was already over 4 years old.