No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Lady Mormont]

Why do people all over the world do things that I find mind-numbingly boring? Because fun is subjective.



And what's wrong with being able to do both?



Because Blizzard refuses to treat it as anything else.

But you still didn't answer my question, what do you use flying for other than its use for faster, safer, and more convenient form of travel?
I did use both, when flying wasn't an option for me IE Late Vanilla, Early TBC when i couldnt afford flying, and most of WoD, I did most of my travel by land or taxi. Even after pathfinder was unlocked I didn't get it for a couple months because I felt no need to, it wasn't a necessity. And lastly, unfortunately its Blizzards game and whatever content and feature they add into the game, for what ever the reason they deem fit is just that THEIR REASON, its THIER GAME. If they said they added flying for "more fun," then it was added for more fun, if they said they added it "convenience and its perk" then that is the reason. But you can't sit here and say "Blizzard is wrong for why they put XX in the game". if Blizzard say's they added LFR so everyone can have fun in raids, but you yourself dont have fun in LFR, does not mean that it wasn't added in for the fun factor. You can't try to use your opinion, or anyone's opinion, as fact and say Blizzard is wrong.

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter, we all get flying in Legion eventually, rather that is in patch 7.1, 7.2 or last patch, we dont know, as they never actually stated when. We will just have to put work into it over time(and get perks along the way) instead of saying "Hi FLight trainer here is my bag of gold! Thanks for my flight license!"

[Deadite]

Personally I think that people are being far too binary in their thinking about flight. The all or nothing approach isn't really that good when you get down to it. A more flexible, diverse solution would be better.

They have the best system in place already. People don't like to fly? Click a fucking ground mount. Better yet just walk. So much more immersive! Fly if you like to fly and don't if you think flying is the devil. Seems like a win/win to me.

[Deleted]

They have the best system in place already. People don't like to fly? Click a fucking ground mount. Better yet just walk. So much more immersive! Fly if you like to fly and don't if you think flying is the devil. Seems like a win/win to me.

Exactly. Phasing hurts the game much, much more than flying could ever do. With flying, you at least are in the same phase. When phasing is active, you disappear and cannot contact players in the other phase even if you wanted to! It was not flying in Cata which was that detrimental, but it was the huge amount of phasing in zones.

[Wolfrick]

Flying makes the World smallers and Removes the immersive part, so if you ask me, I am all for this.

I would even remove flying Entirely so that we would walk on the groud like Humanoids not fly in the air like Birds...

BTW, if we get Flying later "I would like it to be VERY later...

- how about Implementing "Gravety to flying" so that if you are gonna stay in the air you have to Actualy "make some effort" to stay in air.

- How about Implement a bar that if it runs out you have to get on the ground to rest the flying mount, as it is now, flying is way to "safe mode" there should be a risk of falling from the mount or even be attacked in the air.

- How about making it possible to attack people in the air, so that many people would want to be on the ground since they would have more cover and would be easyer to spot.

[Mafic]

Exactly. Phasing hurts the game much, much more than flying could ever do. With flying, you at least are in the same phase. When phasing is active, you disappear and cannot contact players in the other phase even if you wanted to! It was not flying in Cata which was that detrimental, but it was the huge amount of phasing in zones.

Phasing tech went bananas in WoD and Legion is way worse.

It feels like we are arguing with children when they talk about flying destroying their utopia. WoD was the devs utopia of a ground and pound game but all they proved was they dropped a turd in the punch bowl with their vision. Legion will not be any different.

[Idoru]

Flying makes the World smallers and Removes the immersive part, so if you ask me, I am all for this.

I would even remove flying Entirely so that we would walk on the groud like Humanoids not fly in the air like Birds...

BTW, if we get Flying later "I would like it to be VERY later...

- how about Implementing "Gravety to flying" so that if you are gonna stay in the air you have to Actualy "make some effort" to stay in air.

- How about Implement a bar that if it runs out you have to get on the ground to rest the flying mount, as it is now, flying is way to "safe mode" there should be a risk of falling from the mount or even be attacked in the air.

- How about making it possible to attack people in the air, so that many people would want to be on the ground since they would have more cover and would be easyer to spot.

- How about you use your ground mount and leave the flying to me.

[Wolfrick]

- How about you use your ground mount and leave the flying to me.

Mate, I see why you want to fly. (its just like, "WHY crawl, when you can RUN") so the issue is, if Everyone can fly, then almost no one would be on there ground mount... this would make the world very empty and Desert like...

Just look at how "Cataclysm went...." you could fly from day 1 of the expansion.... people where just going to "Point A"... "Flying mount".... "Point B".... so they skiped allmost all of the ground mobs....

I see that you mean this will be Effective... but In an Immersive MMORPG... it ruins the fun for everyone.

[Elim Garak]

Just look at how "Cataclysm went...." you could fly from day 1 of the expansion.... people where just going to "Point A"... "Flying mount".... "Point B".... so they skiped allmost all of the ground mobs....

Did they get XP each time they skipped a mob? Otherwise how would you explain them getting to level cap?

[PragmaticGamer]

Mate, I see why you want to fly. (its just like, "WHY crawl, when you can RUN") so the issue is, if Everyone can fly, then almost no one would be on there ground mount... this would make the world very empty and Desert like...

Just look at how "Cataclysm went...." you could fly from day 1 of the expansion.... people where just going to "Point A"... "Flying mount".... "Point B".... so they skiped allmost all of the ground mobs....

I see that you mean this will be Effective... but In an Immersive MMORPG... it ruins the fun for everyone.

During WoD, I went to do some archaeology in Northrend.

I saw another player. I waved. They waved.

It was very immersive. All that social interaction, my heart was all aflutter.

Even in Draenor regions, the most I saw other players was in passing.

If you want to see other players, maybe Blizzard can program NPCs to run around like players who have no time to socialize, just so it doesn't seem so barren?

[Idoru]

Mate, I see why you want to fly. (its just like, "WHY crawl, when you can RUN") so the issue is, if Everyone can fly, then almost no one would be on there ground mount... this would make the world very empty and Desert like...

Just look at how "Cataclysm went...." you could fly from day 1 of the expansion.... people where just going to "Point A"... "Flying mount".... "Point B".... so they skiped allmost all of the ground mobs....

I see that you mean this will be Effective... but In an Immersive MMORPG... it ruins the fun for everyone.

Most people don't want flying while leveling. Cataclysm was the odd one out, for purely technical reasons, and shouldn't be used as an (rational) argument against max level flying.

Immersion is subject, not universal. When I am flying I am as immersed as when I'm om the ground.

Half your points were PvP focused, which ignores the fact that half the servers are not PvP.

Lastly, lack of self control is a poor argument against anything (not illegal).

[Darkeon]

Mate, I see why you want to fly. (its just like, "WHY crawl, when you can RUN") so the issue is, if Everyone can fly, then almost no one would be on there ground mount... this would make the world very empty and Desert like...

Just look at how "Cataclysm went...." you could fly from day 1 of the expansion.... people where just going to "Point A"... "Flying mount".... "Point B".... so they skiped allmost all of the ground mobs....

I see that you mean this will be Effective... but In an Immersive MMORPG... it ruins the fun for everyone.

Plenty of missions on the ground in Legion. Can't do those while flying.

And regarding the bold phrase: You mean.. like I could do on WoD - on my ground mount, before Flight was unlocked? Because you have to be delirious if you think the majority gets off the mount and kills boar#1827078 of the expansion, for the #28179007 time, every time they cross it.

[Idoru]

Plenty of missions on the ground in Legion. Can't do those while flying.

And regarding the bold phrase: You mean.. like I could do on WoD - on my ground mount, before Flight was unlocked? Because you have to be delirious if you think the majority gets off the mount and kills boar#1827078 of the expansion, for the #28179007 time, every time they cross it.

Exactly. Give me (good) reasons to be on the ground.

[clevin]

You should put up with it because you aren't designing the game, Blizzard is. You've said your piece and it's never changed, "give me flying or else!" If you don't want to play because of it, don't. The limits and compromises people are suggesting is ways for Blizz to implement it sooner. You keep bringing up past xpacs, but per history, it was needed in all those xpacs, it's not now, so if Blizz wants to take it out that's their decision and their right, whether you choose to keep playing or not is on you. If people choose to quit over it, it's on them. Is flight a convenience in WoD and so far in Legion? Yes, is it necessary for either? No.

Of course Blizzard is designing the game.... and YOU aren't either. The 'It's their game' argument is weak shit when you don't have any real argument. If we're going to resort to that then no one is allowed to propose any design ideas because none of us are Blizzard. So you need to STFU too. Somehow I don't think you'd want that.

Flight wasn't needed in any expansion aside from LK - quit reading about things you never played. Not having it sometimes limited you (i.e. in TBC for Skettis) but it wasn't needed outside of SP and Icecrown.

Here's a way for Blizzard to implement it sooner and it doesn't need any half-assed compromises. IMPLEMENT IT SOONER. They could, you know, just decide to do that. That they aren't is 100% a choice being made by them not some technical limit.

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Mate, I see why you want to fly. (its just like, "WHY crawl, when you can RUN") so the issue is, if Everyone can fly, then almost no one would be on there ground mount... this would make the world very empty and Desert like...

Just look at how "Cataclysm went...." you could fly from day 1 of the expansion.... people where just going to "Point A"... "Flying mount".... "Point B".... so they skiped allmost all of the ground mobs....

I see that you mean this will be Effective... but In an Immersive MMORPG... it ruins the fun for everyone.

Oh bullshit. Once again, flight was around for 3/4 of the game up to WoD. We had far MORE subs during all of that time than now. If flight ruined the game is should have cratered years ago yet it didn't, so your point is BS.

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I'm just throwing out ideas here. Like I said, this stuff doesn't have to blanket every inch of every zone. Don't forget the point is to make it interesting and engaging, NOT tedious.

I'm actually ok with there being a separation between flight paths, portals, and whatnot, to get people long distances across the maps, and personal player flight in a different form for short range travel or combat.

And AGAIN... why limit flight now when it wasn't limited from TBC through MoP and the game was quite healthy in sub terms? What's the gain to players? Right, there is none. I'm down with AA near enemy towns, patrols like in Svettis, etc where it makes sense, but I've not heard any reason for restricting flight that actually benefits players in general.

[Spunt]

If blizzard wanted mobs stunning people off their mounts, as many non flyers seem to be implying (much immersion, many savage, wow), then why in the holy hell do they give you a garrison ability that completely removes the ability for mobs to daze you off the mount? Did you people even play this expansion? Removal of flying was nothing more than an attempt by blizzard to make their job easier by not having to deal with the extra work of making flying workable and why it was so buggy on the PTR for so long. Why was that? OH, right, because they never intended to have it happen in the first place, so they had to go back and actually do they work they tried so desperately to avoid. Removal of flying was nothing more than pure laziness on Blizzard parts. This completely ignores the shady as fuck means they "communicated" this to their customers. I mean, why even have an official website when the sneaky little shits decided to post it to some unknown 3rd party website before a holiday weekend?

Removal of flight had ZERO to do with "Immersion" or "making the world more savage". It had EVERYTHING to do with Blizzard charging more for a box price while putting in the BARE MINIMUM of work needed to justify having their jobs. Twitter integration and Selfie cams says hi!

For Christ's sake, they put more effort in Trial of the Crusader in Wrath than they did ALL of WoD.

[Lady Mormont]

Of course Blizzard is designing the game.... and YOU aren't either. The 'It's their game' argument is weak shit when you don't have any real argument. If we're going to resort to that then no one is allowed to propose any design ideas because none of us are Blizzard. So you need to STFU too. Somehow I don't think you'd want that.

Flight wasn't needed in any expansion aside from LK - quit reading about things you never played. Not having it sometimes limited you (i.e. in TBC for Skettis) but it wasn't needed outside of SP and Icecrown.

Here's a way for Blizzard to implement it sooner and it doesn't need any half-assed compromises. IMPLEMENT IT SOONER. They could, you know, just decide to do that. That they aren't is 100% a choice being made by them not some technical limit.

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Oh bullshit. Once again, flight was around for 3/4 of the game up to WoD. We had far MORE subs during all of that time than now. If flight ruined the game is should have cratered years ago yet it didn't, so your point is BS.

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And AGAIN... why limit flight now when it wasn't limited from TBC through MoP and the game was quite healthy in sub terms? What's the gain to players? Right, there is none. I'm down with AA near enemy towns, patrols like in Svettis, etc where it makes sense, but I've not heard any reason for restricting flight that actually benefits players in general.

It is indeed Blizzards game and they can do what they will. Now players can give constructive feedback on game designs and things they want to see/changed, but saying "#noflynobuy" which what the majority of pro flyers say is not constructive feedback, they mostly come across as "a toddler throwing a temper tantrum when mommy won't buy them a candy bar". And you can't say that non-flying ruined the game (it did not) just like the no-flyers cant say that having flying ruined the game (it did not). Also, you did not need to purchase flying to do the content in IC/SP. If you did not have flying at that point, it was provided for you. Actually I think only TBC had "content" that required you to purchase flying (Elemental Plateau, entrance to TK and its respective dungeons, and the Skettis/Orgillia flying dailies. Having flying is not required to see all content. Actually, at least in TBC, flying was VERY limited. Not only was regular flying expensive for its time (i think at 1k gold), it was drastically slower than an epic ground mount (60% flying vs 100% ground). In a lot of cases it was much faster to either stay on ground mount or take a taxi. Flying was significantly better at 280% flying, which was very time consuming to obtain the gold for and not everyone had it. All flying is used for now-a-days is flying from point A to point B completing quests or doing other objectives. It just provides a safer, faster, and more convenient form of travel than being on ground. No risk of accidentally pulling too many mobs, getting dismounted, jumped by enemy players.

Lastly, at the end of the day it doesn't matter what the pro or no-flyers think. Blizzard is pretty adamant about their new design philosophy. And flying will be activated sometime during Legion. You will just have to put some work into it over the expansion instead of giving Random NPC a small bag of gold for a Flight License"

[satimy]

Flying makes the World smallers and Removes the immersive part, so if you ask me, I am all for this.

I would even remove flying Entirely so that we would walk on the groud like Humanoids not fly in the air like Birds...

BTW, if we get Flying later "I would like it to be VERY later...

- how about Implementing "Gravety to flying" so that if you are gonna stay in the air you have to Actualy "make some effort" to stay in air.

- How about Implement a bar that if it runs out you have to get on the ground to rest the flying mount, as it is now, flying is way to "safe mode" there should be a risk of falling from the mount or even be attacked in the air.

- How about making it possible to attack people in the air, so that many people would want to be on the ground since they would have more cover and would be easyer to spot.

How about keeping core elements of travel consistent with the way they were in the successful expansions of TBC, WotLK, Cata and MoP and abandoning the concept behind failed shitty expansions like WOD

[clevin]

It is indeed Blizzards game and they can do what they will. Now players can give constructive feedback on game designs and things they want to see/changed, but saying "#noflynobuy" which what the majority of pro flyers say is not constructive feedback...

it's not meant to be feedback. It's meant to say "Hey, you guys at Blizzard are free to stick to your guns and if you do, I won't be buying the expansion." In a sense, that's the ultimate feedback. Or are you going to argue that people aren't free to express their dissatisfaction with a product by not buying it and telling the maker why not?

And you can't say that non-flying ruined the game (it did not) just like the no-flyers cant say that having flying ruined the game (it did not).

You missed the point I think. I'm not saying no flying ruined the game, but the no fly people continually argued that flying DID ruin it... yet the expansion with the least subs and the highest percentage sub loss has been WoD. If removing flight was such an attraction where are all the people?

Also, you did not need to purchase flying to do the content in IC/SP. If you did not have flying at that point, it was provided for you.

Irrelevant. The point is that you couldn't do it on ground mounts. But the overall point I was making, which you'd notice if you weren't being pedantic, was that there are very few areas in prior expansions where you needed flight. I was replying to an earlier assertion.

Lastly, at the end of the day it doesn't matter what the pro or no-flyers think. Blizzard is pretty adamant about their new design philosophy. And flying will be activated sometime during Legion. You will just have to put some work into it over the expansion instead of giving Random NPC a small bag of gold for a Flight License"

Yes, and some of us won't buy because we dislike Blizzard being so adamant about this despite the utter absence of any benefit to the player by delaying flight like this.

As I've said before, if they were doing a relevant quest line that started with why we can't fly and both made us earn it back while telling a story and if that line culminated in the release of 7.1 I'd be utterly fine with that. In fact, that's my preference, with simply buying a license being second.

Instead they're just creating meaningless hoops to jump through and the still refuse to commit to a patch by when flight will be enabled (not a timeline, but even a patch as in "7.1" or something). This just leads many of us to assume they'll dick us around until all of the patches are out, then let us fly - when it's useless.

It's the same BS they did last time - a bit more organized, but still being vague with commitments so they can do whatever they want.

Nope, sorry. They burned all their good will with WoD, an expansion just as long as ever, missing 1-2 content patches and with the flight snafu. I'll wait and see what they do.

[Eapoe]

Of course Blizzard is designing the game.... and YOU aren't either. The 'It's their game' argument is weak shit when you don't have any real argument. If we're going to resort to that then no one is allowed to propose any design ideas because none of us are Blizzard. So you need to STFU too. Somehow I don't think you'd want that.

Flight wasn't needed in any expansion aside from LK - quit reading about things you never played. Not having it sometimes limited you (i.e. in TBC for Skettis) but it wasn't needed outside of SP and Icecrown.

Here's a way for Blizzard to implement it sooner and it doesn't need any half-assed compromises. IMPLEMENT IT SOONER. They could, you know, just decide to do that. That they aren't is 100% a choice being made by them not some technical limit.

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Oh bullshit. Once again, flight was around for 3/4 of the game up to WoD. We had far MORE subs during all of that time than now. If flight ruined the game is should have cratered years ago yet it didn't, so your point is BS.

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And AGAIN... why limit flight now when it wasn't limited from TBC through MoP and the game was quite healthy in sub terms? What's the gain to players? Right, there is none. I'm down with AA near enemy towns, patrols like in Svettis, etc where it makes sense, but I've not heard any reason for restricting flight that actually benefits players in general.

You aren't making any design ideas, you are whining like a child. I have nothing against their design choices, if they make a bad game (in my opinion) based on what they do then I will stop playing. You've had nothing constructive to post since you're entire time here, just the same tired yelling of "it's my game, give me what I want!" when it's not your game and stating time and time again about how flying didn't hurt previous xpacs when it's been stated that content (raids and dungeons) were designed with needing flight to get to them. It's not a matter of limiting flight benefitting players or not, it's a matter of convenience for content is what you aren't grasping. If there is no content for it, then having it is just a bonus that's given when it's implemented.

[Connll]

You do know that you were the one complaining in this instance and not me, unless you missed that part.

Sigh...

Sircowdog presented a question about future possibilies for WoW. In other words, a invitation to speculate about possible future events. Which I accepted and did.

To come in here and call a speculation "whining and complaining" can only be the result of an inability of interpreting text, or intellectual dishonesty. Usually, I make a point of not attributing malice to what can be explained by stupidity, but you *seem* to be articulate; so it could be either; or both.

I like how the game is, you do not, and you've been making a point to vocalize that in a snide manner. However, if you want to continue in this rhetorical drivel of yours without presenting an actual real counterpoint, I'll simply have to dismiss your claim as you have no factual data to support it.

Now we got psychological projection to add in the mixture. And nothing else worth mentioning, really.

I'm not sure that's entirely realistic. I've I said in the past, Blizzard isn't stupid. It's my personal opinion that profits are currently the motivating factor of design decisions, rather than creativity and a desire to make a wondrous, immersive, and engaging game. But that doesn't change the fact that WoW is STILL the largest MMO in the market, and highly popular and profitable.

It's possible that pathfinder and the pushback of flight in Legion are so poorly received that it lights a fire under Blizzard to come up with something better. I would like that VERY MUCH. But I don't think devs are going to lose their jobs over it. If that was going to happen, it would have happened because of WoD, where the no-flying experiment pretty much turned into a trainwreck of ambivalence that hurt the overall quality of the entire expansion.

Indeed, BLIZZARD the company isn´t stupid by any means.

However, I am not so sure about the current developers responsible for WoW. The way they are treating flight (and, by extension, a lot of other features in Legion. For instance, the Class hall facebook missions)

Also, I do agree that Blizzard is interested in profits above all else. The question is, if WoW loses over half of its subscriber revenue AGAIN, chances are high that someone in the top of the hierarchy will want to know why.

Imagine what will happen if said person actually decides to make an investigation? That he discovers how WoW has been handled both in WoD and Legion.

Don´t you think that a few (lots of?) heads won´t roll? Or at the very least, sent to other projects instead of WoW?

[Dhrizzle]

You missed the point I think. I'm not saying no flying ruined the game, but the no fly people continually argued that flying DID ruin it... yet the expansion with the least subs and the highest percentage sub loss has been WoD. If removing flight was such an attraction where are all the people?

Playing fun with numbers, the largest periods of growth were Vanilla (no flight,) TBC (flight restricted to be slower than epic ground mounts unless you could afford the 5k epic flying,) and end of MoP (no flight in endgame) / start of WoD (no flight.) WotLK was the first time flight was standard and it's when subs flat-lined. Cata had flying for the leveling content and saw the first major drop in subs.

Personally I think sub gains and losses come down to a lot more factors than whether you can fly, but if you want to examine it that way there's more to the story than no flight = less subs.