Is Nintendo about to go the way of Sega?

[GennGreymane]

Ummm once again you are wrong.

The only thing the Wii versions didn't have was the DLC. Also there was MANY exclusive good 3rd party titles. Once again it had a fuck ton of JRPG's on top of games like COD.

Good/Bad is subjective and nothing more. Red Steel 2 is a awesome game even tho the first was meh. Mad World is a awesome game as well but to be clear thats my opinion.

To say the wii had no good 3rd party titles is a lie. Also the performance for most of those titles ran just fine.

cough cough* functioning online play* cough cough

[Jtbrig7390]

cough cough* functioning online play* cough cough

cough cough "heres a game with funcationing online play" cough cought



But hey keep moving that post genn and ill prove you wrong each time.

video is only 3 months old by the way.

[GennGreymane]

cough cough "hers a game with funcation online play" cough cought



But hey keep moving that post genn and ill prove you wrong each time.

What am I wrong about? The third party games are trash versions of the actual games. If you call that third party support, you probably call the garbage in a restaurants dumpster food. OMG COD THEY HAVE COD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah, the trash version of COD. What amazing "support". What else.... some JPGs? Did they even sell? Did Nintendo even advertise them? DO they exist outside of Japan?

What kinda third party support is that? Its not. Thats why we have wonderful shovelware!

Nintendo made money on a fad that went away the minute angry birds was invented.

[SodiumChloride]

and PS4 and Xbox got the shit version of the PC games. What's your point?

Also, before we hit the ''exclusives'' part of your argument.

Emulators.

On the contrary, it's PC that is getting the shit version of console games. The consoles versions are actually playable unlike the frequently bug ridden and poor optimised PCs ports - the UI are pretty much designed for consoles too and are twisted to fit PC (if the developer bothers). (You want an example of a PC designed UI? Look at the original Desu Ex.)

[Jtbrig7390]

What am I wrong about? The third party games are trash versions of the actual games. If you call that third party support, you probably call the garbage in a restaurants dumpster food. OMG COD THEY HAVE COD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah, the trash version of COD. What amazing "support". What else.... some JPGs? Did they even sell? Did Nintendo even advertise them? DO they exist outside of Japan?

Once again by ur logic Ps4/Xb1 games are trash versions of the PC game and XB1 games are trash versions of Ps4 titles.

As for do the JRPG's exist outside of Japan....
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/ta...ew-world/72009
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/mu...on-blade/73359
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/ph...et-again/74025
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/fi...-dungeon/69637
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/ru...-destiny/92821
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/fi...-of-time/73019
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/pandoras-tower/107683
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/the-last-story/99301

I can keep going if you want but ya the JRPG's are outside of Japan.....

Edit: Its clear you bitch and moan about the Wii and yet don't have a clue what was released on it.

[GennGreymane]

Once again by ur logic Ps4/Xb1 games are trash versions of the PC game and XB1 games are trash versions of Ps4 titles.

As for do the JRPG's exist outside of Japan....
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/ta...ew-world/72009
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/mu...on-blade/73359
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/ph...et-again/74025
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/fi...-dungeon/69637
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/ru...-destiny/92821
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/fi...-of-time/73019
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/pandoras-tower/107683
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/the-last-story/99301

I can keep going if you want but ya the JRPG's are outside of Japan.....

Fully features and made to function well on the consoles and PC. Not a real argument here. Emergerd frame rate slightly lower than 60 frames!!!!!! PCMUSTARDRACE.
Look at how many units those games sold.... its almost like Nintendo never advertised them. Or gave the third parties any reason to continue.

[Bosen]

Nintendo does their own thing. They always find a way to profit,even if their actions aren't popular. They think more like a toy company, so it's fitting that they're getting more into toys and merchandising. They aren't going to do what Sony and Microsoft are doing.

[Jester Joe]

You're still just proving my point. The only reason that I could imagine someone wanting Nintendo to keep making consoles is because of innovation. So my point is that their innovation is pretty gimmicky. If you believe that Nintendo just improved the Arcade Joysticks with their analog sticks, then yeah, you're just proving my point.

You're missing the fact that I considered the motion control to be innovative though. I'm not saying that the analog stick isn't innovative at all, I'm saying I think it's silly to think it's more innovative than the motion control.

A quick google search didn't yield any results on proving that the PS Move didn't copy the Wii. I thought I had saw a statement from a Sony Exec talking about how they had been working on the PS Move for a long time, but the Sixaxis controller which has motion controls launched with the PS3 which, in fact, launched 2 days earlier in the US than the Wii.

My point is that Nintendo wasn't the only people thinking about Motion Controls. They were just the ones that believed in it the most. I'm sure I'm not alone in that when I was a kid I imagined fighting monsters in a virtual world while actually moving my body around. This was before the Wii was probably even an idea. Same with VR and same with AR. Oculus and Hololens may be the first ones to embrace those things, but it's foolish to think they were the only ones thinking about them or that VR and AR wouldn't have happened without them.

I can't find anything concrete for the PS3, but the Wii was being developed as far back as 2001 according to Nintendo.

At best motion controls and the Wii U Gamepad are in between innovation and gimmick. They are not worthless (although Motion Controls are highly situational) but they also aren't significant either. When the Wii U Gamepad is used, it's nice, but hardly game changing and the only games that really take well to motion controls are generally games involving activities that you'd physically do in real life like Wii Sports or Just Dance. Just because Nintendo forces their "innovations" or "gimmicks" down your throat doesn't mean that they are suddenly worthwhile.

There is no inbetween. Either something is completely useless and meant to just push sales (gimmick), or it actually heavily affected the system and games (Maybe not innovative, but not a gimmick).

Also not sure how anything in the Warioware games is something you would physically do in real life, well, aside from maybe picking a nose

The proof that motion control was a fad is that Sony and Microsoft didn't seriously support their motion control platforms at all after the initial release, and Nintendo had built there entire system around motion controls that they couldn't get rid of it. The proof that even Nintendo thought it wasn't good is that the Wii U doesn't have motion controls as it's primary control scheme

Sony didn't seriously support the Vita either, does that make it a fad?

And I'd like to see some proof of Nintendo actually claiming it wasn't as good. Just because Nintendo didn't add something as a primary control scheme (Which if you count the PS3 controllers slight movement abilities as motion control, then the Wii U has motion controls too with the gamepad) doesn't mean it wasn't as good, it just means they wanted to go another direction, which I feel like goes back to the whole "Nintendo designs for Nintendo".

As for Ratchet and Clank I am talking quality wise. All the Ratchet and Clanks that have stuck to the traditional gameplay have been amazing. Rivaling anything Nintendo has done. The only time they have struggled is when they try to do something different with the series like the Tower Defense game or the Co Op focused game. Which, let's be honest, the main Mario games may be great, but the franchise as a whole isn't perfect either.

Mario Kart is great too. Mario Tennis has it's fair share of success to a degree, same for the rest of the sports games actually. Even then, that's only one series.

[Jtbrig7390]

Fully features and made to function well on the consoles and PC. Not a real argument here. Emergerd frame rate slightly lower than 60 frames!!!!!! PCMUSTARDRACE.
Look at how many units those games sold.... its almost like Nintendo never advertised them. Or gave the third parties any reason to continue.

units of a game sold does not equal that its a good game.

Also Good and Bad is subjective. I give you examples on how you are wrong and you move the goal post. Please do tell me how the wii versions wasn't fully featured and functional... What because the ps3 had a DLC the wii didn't?

edit: More 3rd party titles (Resident Evil Games)
http://www.gamestop.com/browse/ninte...vil,28zu0,138a

Also lets not forget Monster Hunter Tri on the wii.

[GennGreymane]

Sony didn't seriously support the Vita either, does that make it a fad?

And I'd like to see some proof of Nintendo actually claiming it wasn't as good. Just because Nintendo didn't add something as a primary control scheme (Which if you count the PS3 controllers slight movement abilities as motion control, then the Wii U has motion controls too with the gamepad) doesn't mean it wasn't as good, it just means they wanted to go another direction, which I feel like goes back to the whole "Nintendo designs for Nintendo".

Its too expensive, they had to reduce prices. The games were also expensive... and a lot of the games felt like watered down console ports. Thats why Sony hardly cares about the VITA anymore.

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units of a game sold does not equal that its a good game.

Also Good and Bad is subjective. I give you examples on how you are wrong and you move the goal post. Please do tell me how the wii versions wasn't fully featured and functional... What because the ps3 had a DLC the wii didn't?

You come at me over goal posts and now its only DLC? Excuse me for not considering garbage ports to be real "support". Go figure. Wii during its actual life cycle had garbage online, hardly could handle patching.

The Wii was a fad, and angry birds and mobile gaming took away that market.

[Jester Joe]

Its too expensive, they had to reduce prices. The games were also expensive... and a lot of the games felt like watered down console ports. Thats why Sony hardly cares about the VITA anymore.

Minus the watered down console ports, the 3DS had a similar issue yet still succeeded.

The Wii was a fad, and angry birds and mobile gaming took away that market.

I would like to actually see proof to this. It gets claimed way too often with no proof at all, because there's no way to prove it. It's just an opinion.

[Time Sage]

It's been out longer than xbox one and PS4 and isn't in the same ballpark of either system...The fact that the Wii sold over 100m consoles...and the wii u is probabl;y about 12-14m now and they are seizing production later this year on them on top of a new system coming out so soon after the wii u release is pretty much pointing at all signs of failure. It came out november 2012...so march 2017 is the expected NX release....so...not even 5 years....that's pretty shit...

That stopping production thing was a rumor that Nintendo has offically stated is false. Please stop spreading it.

[Jtbrig7390]

You come at me over goal posts and now its only DLC? Go figure. Wii during its actual life cycle had garbage online, hardly could handle patching.

No I was asking you. How was the games not fully featured and functional? Because it lacked DLC?

Hell for 95% of the games I buy I never buy the DLC. Like I said you keep moving goal posts.

Genns goal post moving list.
1) No Good 3rd Party Games (Gets proven wrong)
2) No high selling 3rd party games (Who gives a fuck since sells don't equal good and how do we even know the sells)
3) Not fully featured and functional (Has yet to explain what he means by this)
4) Had Garbage Online (This is subjective not objective)
5) Hardly could handle patching (Its almost like Nintendo games rarely needed to be fixed).

Tune in at 11 to find out where genn puts the goal post next. By the way the parts between (____) is me replying in short.

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I would like to actually see proof to this. It gets claimed way too often with no proof at all, because there's no way to prove it. It's just an opinion.

Come now Joe you know the system that outsold the Ps3/Xbox360 was just a fad. I mean 100 million sells is clearly a fad right.....

[Reverence]

Of course they will die off. Its 2016 and they still operate under the notion that the internet is just a fad

[Poppincaps]

You're missing the fact that I considered the motion control to be innovative though. I'm not saying that the analog stick isn't innovative at all, I'm saying I think it's silly to think it's more innovative than the motion control.



I can't find anything concrete for the PS3, but the Wii was being developed as far back as 2001 according to Nintendo.





There is no inbetween. Either something is completely useless and meant to just push sales (gimmick), or it actually heavily affected the system and games (Maybe not innovative, but not a gimmick).

Also not sure how anything in the Warioware games is something you would physically do in real life, well, aside from maybe picking a nose



Sony didn't seriously support the Vita either, does that make it a fad?

And I'd like to see some proof of Nintendo actually claiming it wasn't as good. Just because Nintendo didn't add something as a primary control scheme (Which if you count the PS3 controllers slight movement abilities as motion control, then the Wii U has motion controls too with the gamepad) doesn't mean it wasn't as good, it just means they wanted to go another direction, which I feel like goes back to the whole "Nintendo designs for Nintendo".



Mario Kart is great too. Mario Tennis has it's fair share of success to a degree, same for the rest of the sports games actually. Even then, that's only one series.

...Your post is really confusing. You say that there is nothing in between gimmick and innovative and then go on to say that something that heavily affected the system may not be innovative but is also not a gimmick. Isn't that what I said?

Also the Vita isn't and has never been successful. A fad is something that is popular. So no, the Vita isn't a fad, because it is a failure. Your motion control argument is a complete cop out. They carried the dual screens from the DS over because it worked. They carried the analog sticks over because they worked. They threw away the Virtual Boy because it was a failure. If you want to show another instance of a successful addition that they threw away, then by all means, but until then I have precedent on my side.

The Wii was their most successful console ever. If they really believed that they could find success with it again, then there is no logical reason why they wouldn't do that. Obviously they saw it for what it is. A fad.

As for Mario I didn't say specifics... But I'll leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzU6WIuJIaI

[Jester Joe]

...Your post is really confusing. You say that there is nothing in between gimmick and innovative and then go on to say that something that heavily affected the system may not be innovative but is also not a gimmick. Isn't that what I said?

Also the Vita isn't and has never been successful. A fad is something that is popular. So no, the Vita isn't a fad, because it is a failure. Your motion control argument is a complete cop out. The they carried the dual screens from the DS over because it worked. They carried the analog sticks over because they worked. They threw away the Virtual Boy because it was a failure.

The Wii was their most successful console ever. If they really believed that they could find success with it again, then there is no logical reason why they wouldn't do that. Obviously they saw it for what it is. A fad.

As for Mario I didn't say specifics... But I'll leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzU6WIuJIaI

I meant in general terms for that. I still firmly believe the Wii U was innovative, if not the most innovative system this generation. I meant more of just because something isn't innovative to you doesn't make it a gimmick.

Motion controls was never successful for the other companies. While Nintendo was making bank from it, PS Move and Kinect basically flopped. That was my point of the Vita comparison. Sony didn't carry the Move not because it was a fad, but because their version sucked. Microsoft tried to continue the Kinect, but whether it was a flop or just to actually lower the price of the Xbone, they dropped it.

Nintendo, on the other hand, decided to go in a completely different direction and make something else. It doesn't mean they didn't think it could be successful again, it doesn't mean it was just a fad, it just means they wanted to try something else new and unique. Hell, maybe they just wanted to make Splatoon and Mario Maker, who knows.


I feel like we've deviated pretty far though from whether or not Nintendo is going to drop making consoles here.

[Poppincaps]

I meant in general terms for that. I still firmly believe the Wii U was innovative, if not the most innovative system this generation. I meant more of just because something isn't innovative to you doesn't make it a gimmick.

Motion controls was never successful for the other companies. While Nintendo was making bank from it, PS Move and Kinect basically flopped. That was my point of the Vita comparison. Sony didn't carry the Move not because it was a fad, but because their version sucked. Microsoft tried to continue the Kinect, but whether it was a flop or just to actually lower the price of the Xbone, they dropped it.

Nintendo, on the other hand, decided to go in a completely different direction and make something else. It doesn't mean they didn't think it could be successful again, it doesn't mean it was just a fad, it just means they wanted to try something else new and unique. Hell, maybe they just wanted to make Splatoon and Mario Maker, who knows.


I feel like we've deviated pretty far though from whether or not Nintendo is going to drop making consoles here.

Once again show me another case where they found success in something and then dropped it in favor of a different direction. Because I gave you TWO examples of the contrary. Precedent is on my side.

Also the Wii U isn't innovative. The DS is. The Wii U is just a dual screen home console where you sometimes use the second screen. There is no difference between the way the gamepad works and the way the DS did. If you think the N64 analog sticks weren't innovative because of arcade joysticks, then you can't think the Wii U gamepad is innovative when the DS did it in a pretty similar fashion before. They are pretty much the exact same situation.

Motion controls weren't popular with Sony and Microsoft because Sony and Microsoft saw it as a fad and didn't pour enough resources into it. Nintendo went all in and had no choice but to make it work.

Also how have we deviated? My entire point is that there is no use in Nintendo making consoles anymore. Handhelds and game development. That should be Nintendo's future.

[Jester Joe]

Once again show me another case where they found success in something and then dropped it in favor of a different direction. Because I gave you TWO examples of the contrary. Precedent is on my side.

Precedent means nothing when they changed their philosophy after the Gamecube. They went from caring about directly competing with graphics to believing graphics don't matter, fun gameplay does instead on the Wii.

Also the Wii U isn't innovative. The DS is. The Wii U is just a dual screen home console where you sometimes use the second screen. There is no difference between the way the gamepad works and the way the DS did. If you think the N64 analog sticks weren't innovative because of arcade joysticks, then you can't think the Wii U gamepad is innovative when the DS did it in a pretty similar fashion before. They are pretty much the exact same situation.

Oh geez, for the 2nd time already, I didn't mean the analog stick wasn't innovative, I was poking holes in the fact of you thinking the analog stick was more innovative than motion control, which you still fell back on "Well, someone would of done it anyway!", which yeah, so? Someone would of made analog sticks too.

Motion controls weren't popular with Sony and Microsoft because Sony and Microsoft saw it as a fad and didn't pour enough resources into it. Nintendo went all in and had no choice but to make it work.

...or because it failed for them and succeeded for Nintendo?

And Nintendo tried going all in to make the Wii U work and it still never took off like the Wii did. So it's not like them going all in suddenly makes people accept something that they normally wouldn't like.

Also how have we deviated? My entire point is that there is no use in Nintendo making consoles anymore. Handhelds and game development. That should be Nintendo's future.

Because that's still not going the path of Sega.

But I still find it mildly frustrating to see people say Nintendo should drop consoles just because of one subpar system, yet no one says anything about Microsoft losing money from their gaming division.

If the day ever comes that you see Nintendo drop consoles, they are not going to start putting their games on the Playstation. They'd just put it all on their handhelds, and chances are you'll never see a large Zelda game again unless they make some pretty crazy powerful handheld. Why do people really want that? They've already said their IPs are going down with them if they do, so what would make you think they would ever put them on another console like that?

[Torgent]

Nintendo is definitely on the decline because they refuse to adapt to the current market. Shit, they refused dvd play and twitch on the wiiu because they said "We don't think anyone wants to watch it." (for twitch)

[wolfpackfan]

Looking at their last fiscal statement, they made a small profit for the quarter and they are still sitting on over $2.3 BILLION US cash on hand (with $11.2 Billion US in total assets). They are still in NO trouble financially.