Why so much hate for Sylvanas?

[Friendlyimmolation]

She's a shitty commander and has lost every major conflict she's ever commanded.

She won in the troll battles, she out maneuvered the scarlet crusade, she tricked Garithos, she nearly ambushed Arthas, she lead the Horde in Icecrown and co-lead the battle of undercity, she also pushed the Alliance and worgen back out of lordaeron. '

So basically your wrong at that first point.

also how is Mind Control irrelevant,

Because
- she doesn't mind control the forsaken
- She only used "charm" once to break Garithos free of Dread lord control
- trying to use heros of the storm as a basis for an argument is so hilariously bad that I'm just going to assume you were joking.

which is what i've always said, you people twisted it into she mind controls the Forsaken, cause you couldn't actually win on that argument.

That argument was won back in 2012, that you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.

But do go on repeating the same old incorrect stuff.

[Dartz1979]

(Keep in mind I currently do not play WoW, I do, however, keep up to date on information about it)


*Spoilers* (Highlight below)
After reading that Vol'Jin dies in Legion... Why is no one (or so it seems) considering Sylvanas?
I get that her opinions are off a bit, but she could literally make thousands upon thousands of Undead to completely conquer the Alliance.
I just don't get how THAT specific thing is not a GOOD thing.

I like her she's the only sexy looking npc on horde side ya cant really count garona.

[Dastreus]

Because people see her, they think of edge lords, and get all butthurt, and ironically become edgy in their retorts.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Because people see her, they think of edge lords, and get all butthurt, and ironically become edgy in their retorts.

Oh hey you figured it out

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I like her she's the only sexy looking npc on horde side ya cant really count garona.

didn't you say you loved Garona like 2 days ago?

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What about the fact she tortures people, her own allies (KOltira.)

Koltira was a ally no longer, he committed treason and got Forsaken soldiers and a Val'kyr killed because of sentiment.

uses the plague as a weapon of war,

This point is beyond stupid, I won't bother to explain it other than you have warlocks and mages, you can't talk.

wanted to murder her own sister and revive her, against her will.

said sister who wanted to rule the Forsaken and listen to no one, neither Alliance or Horde.

Broken Shore

funny because so does Varian, I guess this means he is a terrible commander too.

She manages to sack Lordaeran with the help of much more experienced commanders

you mean the guy that was throwing non humans to the axe? The guy that only had the rank because every other person in the chain of command was dead?

and mind control

She didn't use mind control to win Lordaeron, I would tell you to play the game and realize you are wrong, but We both know you wouldn't admit it and would rather cry Wolf Mindcontrol

In Cata she's doing so bad attacking Gilneas she has to resort to the plague

Because Garrosh spent so much time killing Forsaken that the Gileans had time to bunker in, not to mention that they all practically became super soldiers.

Chemical Warfare, even Garrosh considered this Cruel.

Hurray another falsehood from you! what a habbit! Garrosh didn't like the plague because it reduced Forsaken casualties, and he didn't trust them. It had nothing to do with it being Cruel. He had no problem with them using the blight the Horde approved however.

In MoP she didn't lead any conflicts deferring to the Regent Lord Lor'themar who has proven far more successful

And by more successful do you mean in your own little headcanon?

Mind Control.

Boy howdy you sure do love lying.

She's even so bad at organizing a resistance, she told Arthas how to break down the gates guarding Silvermoon

I'd say learn your lore, but the fact that every time you post its the same incorrect shit I know you don't learn your lesson. Either way here is a link for you that I doubt you would read.
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Dar%27Khan_Drathir

[Borigrad]

She won in the troll battles, she out maneuvered the scarlet crusade, she tricked Garithos, she nearly ambushed Arthas, she lead the Horde in Icecrown and co-lead the battle of undercity, she also pushed the Alliance and worgen back out of lordaeron. '

She didn't win any troll battles, the Elves had to rely on the humans of Stormgarde and their mages. No... she didn't. The Scarlet crusade was dismantled by lilian voss and the Argent Dawn. She didn't trick Garithos, she mind controlled him. Nearly Ambushed and failed cause of her Hubris and arrogance. She didn't lead the Horde in icecrown, Garrosh did, she led a strike force into the Pit of Saron and then in the halls of Reflection almost died again cause of her arrogance (If this version is even Canon, it's heavily implied the Alliance version is Canon.) Thrall lead the battle of the under city and Jaina is the true hero of that event, again she pushed the worgen out with the use of plague.

Koltira was a ally no longer, he committed treason and got Forsaken soldiers and a Val'kyr killed because of sentiment.

This point is beyond stupid, I won't bother to explain it other than you have warlocks and mages, you can't talk.

said sister who wanted to rule the Forsaken and listen to no one, neither Alliance or Horde.

funny because so does Varian, I guess this means he is a terrible commander too.

you mean the guy that was throwing non humans to the axe? The guy that only had the rank because every other person in the chain of command was dead?

She didn't use mind control to win Lordaeron, I would tell you to play the game and realize you are wrong, but We both know you wouldn't admit it and would rather cry Wolf Mindcontrol

Because Garrosh spent so much time killing Forsaken that the Gileans had time to bunker in, not to mention that they all practically became super soldiers.

Hurray another falsehood from you! what a habbit! Garrosh didn't like the plague because it reduced Forsaken casualties, and he didn't trust them. It had nothing to do with it being
Cruel. He had no problem with them using the blight the Horde approved however.

And by more successful do you mean in your own little headcanon?

Boy howdy you sure do love lying.

I'd say learn your lore, but the fact that every time you post its the same incorrect shit I know you don't learn your lesson. Either way here is a link for you that I doubt you would read.
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Dar%27Khan_Drathir

"truce" is a funny word for treason, but sure if we're completely rewriting the lore and quests, yes Koltira committed treason, he's also a Nathrezim in disguise and thrall is an Old God.

Oh, you'll have to point me in the direction of the Gilnean Warlocks and Mages bombarding the Forsaken line... oh right, they don't exist.

Clearly, that's why Sylvanas was plotting to have her murdered... in secret... to destroy the love she had for her children cause the Forsaken have a hard time feeling love for their old life... yes totally. Did you read the book?

Varian loses one battle, Sylvanas loses many. Even the best Commander occasionally loses.

And yet Garithos had been fighting back the scourge in Lorderan quite effectively until he was mind controlled by the Nathrezim.

She Used Mind Control to sack lorderan by mind controlling the soldiers to breach the front gates without a fight and get a surprise on the defending forces.

Garrosh led a conventional war, Sylvanas used chemical weapons, They're both evil. Also please point to me when Garrosh uses Blight, that was purely Sylvanas' decision.

Lor'Themar is the more successful commander, as evidenced by all the times he has won and forged alliances. Even able to create a peace with Varian, until Jaina broke those discussions.

My favorite thing about Dar'khan he's basically a scapegoat to justify why Arthas won so easily, to give the elves a little legitimacy cause they made them look week. Yes it's Canon, doesn't mean it's good writing. Still doesn't change the fact Sylvanas could barely slow arthas down, with access to the full might of silvermoon.

Edit: Oh and saying HotS doesn't count is a bit of a Cop out, they themselves have said they use Canon Characters in the worlds own Canon. She canonically Mind Controls her enemies, which is what i've always said. She uses mind control, you're the one who twisted that into the forsaken, when all I ever said, was she uses Mind Control.

[quintpp]

i want her head,i want to wipe her dead blood of my runeblade, never liked the corpse.

[Cwimge]

Me only beef with her is that she is getting development at the expense of Character who was actually in need of getting a huge spotlight. Sylvanas already had her share of attention. There are other undefined characters that are in desperate need of getting story. I'm Glad that they remembered about Genn, but Vol'Jin is example of the worst possible writing. You don't build someone up to be meaningful character and dispose him immediately after, for no reason.

Remember all those months in mop and even then after where pretty much Every Horde Player was throwing a collective tantrum about a troll being warchief?

well you got your wish, vol'jin is gone and in his place you've got the angry fantasy wifu

[ornichi]

Funny thing is, Sylvannas fanboys will always have upper hand in the arguments about her awesomeness cuz you know, Blizz are not stupid to make fanboy character look ridiculous. Ofc she is the best, the strongest, the smartest, the sexiest female ever existed, who tricked everyone and in the end it's gonna be World of Sylvannas only for the sake of erotic pictures of her serving as a fap-material for Friendlyimmolation and his friends.

[Keristrasza]

Who the hell hates Sylvanas? Point me at them!

*raises hand* Me, I hate Sylvanas! >.>

Seriously though, I used to like her until ... I believe it was around Cata I started hating her, I always found her people fishy with creating a plague all the damned time. Then they use it after being told NOT too, during a genocide that should never have taken place. >.> Now she goes around raising the dead willy-nilly because her people can't reproduce.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Funny thing is, Sylvannas fanboys will always have upper hand in the arguments about her awesomeness cuz you know, Blizz are not stupid to make fanboy character look ridiculous. Ofc she is the best, the strongest, the smartest, the sexiest female ever existed, who tricked everyone and in the end it's gonna be World of Sylvannas only for the sake of erotic pictures of her serving as a fap-material for Friendlyimmolation and his friends.

I don't know what's more disturbing, that you think of a corpse as fap material, or your argument is so shitty that you resort to insults becuse arm flailing doesn't convey over the internet

Honestly do you have an argument that doesn't resort to "if u lyk her then u r 14 and fap 2 her" ? Or do you honestly think it's a clever quip? The people who hate sylvanas sure do talk about her and fapping to her alot, got something to hide?

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*raises hand* Me, I hate Sylvanas! >.>

Seriously though, I used to like her until ... I believe it was around Cata I started hating her, I always found her people fishy with creating a plague all the damned time. Then they use it after being told NOT too, during a genocide that should never have taken place. >.> Now she goes around raising the dead willy-nilly because her people can't reproduce.

If you didn't want gilnaes to happen, you can blame thrall.

[Zulkhan]

Funny thing is, Sylvannas fanboys will always have upper hand in the arguments about her awesomeness cuz you know, Blizz are not stupid to make fanboy character look ridiculous. Ofc she is the best, the strongest, the smartest, the sexiest female ever existed, who tricked everyone and in the end it's gonna be World of Sylvannas only for the sake of erotic pictures of her serving as a fap-material for Friendlyimmolation and his friends.

Well yeah, I guess is Blizzard's fault. You know, if you begin to argue against WoG because it doesn't let you to passionately hate a character in the biased manner you desire, I guess something has gone terribly wrong. I mean, I don't like Sylvanas, I just don't. But I don't need to write a ridiculous post like this to invalidate facts dictated from those who created her character to begin with. It merely shows your mastodontic bias and monumental ignorance when it comes to lore.

[ornichi]

Well yeah, I guess is Blizzard's fault. You know, if you begin to argue against WoG because it doesn't let you to passionately hate a character in the biased manner you desire, I guess something has gone terribly wrong. I mean, I don't like Sylvanas, I just don't. But I don't need to write a ridiculous post like this to invalidate facts dictated from those who created her character to begin with. It merely shows your mastodontic bias and monumental ignorance when it comes to lore.

and still you wrote a ridiculous post like this.

[ryudaraku]

I hate her because in Cataclysm her character crossed the line from "Anti-hero" to "Villain"

Her short story alone shows that she does not care for the people she is supposed to be leading, her actions in Andorhal are vile, since attempting to save the lives of Forsaken by giving the Alliance a chance to retreat is -not- being a traitor. How many forsaken troops were lost in the fight? How many of the dead humans that were presumably raised actually JOINED the forsaken? The Horde may have won that fight, but i bet the loss in troops didn't.

Gilneas? How many forsaken were killed with that, and those losses were no where as recoverable as Andorhal* because worgen can't be raised.

And then in War Crimes, she was going to murder her sister and raise her as a forsaken, and her Sister's children. Sylvanas should be hated as a character, she could have been a compelling story of "What happens after you get the revenge you live your life for" and they made that story into "Become the exact thing you were fighting because are afwaid of the bad dawwkness"

*I hate having to say this over and over, I keep wanting to say Aridhol from Wheel of Time.

[Friendlyimmolation]

People say that she doesn't care for her people, and conviently forget the quests that contradict that or her legion bio, which wouldn't be there if it was true. She didn't want to kill vereesa's kids and said undercity was no place for children. What koltira did was to not save lives, and he gave the alliance the chance not only to regroup, but to attack and nearly drive the forsaken out, thass exploited koltira and his weakness.

[Zulkhan]

and still you wrote a ridiculous post like this.

Fantastic rebuttal. Way to prove my point.

[greeeed]

She is definitely the last strong character in a leadership position, but I don't expect that to last long. She'll be Legion's Yrel - useful to a point, then left on the sidelines as a propped up mannequin of herself, while the remaining generic, bland "leaders' fumble around badly written lore.

If you want to see Yrel story line, they play as Alliance character.
You see her grow while doing quest in Draenor.
From normal NPC with shitty gear till Elite NPC with raid gear.

[ornichi]

There are people, who like strong-willed egoistic women, who treat everyone like shit and then there are people, who understand, that with those standards in real life such women are considered angry bitches with 3 cats and nobody wants such people in their circle.

[Friendlyimmolation]

There are people, who like strong-willed egoistic women, who treat everyone like shit and then there are people, who understand, that with those standards in real life such women are considered angry bitches with 3 cats and nobody wants such people in their circle.

Good thing WoW isn't real life and your point is completely moot. (seriously that was sad)

[Melsiren]

Mind Controlling people is bad.

Funny, because the only faction leader/main character to use Mind Control during wow's lifespan is Anduin.

[Zulkhan]

Good thing WoW isn't real life

Too bad is not very clear how much people get that. Be it Varian, Sylvanas, Anduin, Jaina, Vol'jin and who knows how many more, you have people hating on all of these characters like they are real persons, judging them by standards that are absolutely ridiculous within the lore.

All these people definitely needs a breath of fresh air.