[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[khalltusk]

I know the scene you speak of and I had a feeling it was what he was referring to, but I wanted to let him/her find it and reply.

Figured you would know the one .

[Deleted]

I'm not entirely convinced that Littlefinger means to cause Sansa or the Stark family any direct harm. I'm sure he knew of Ramsey and how he mistreats people, but given the exchange between the two - "I've grown rather fond of Sansa... etc, etc" - I'm leaning more towards him thinking she'd be okay. Not treated nicely, but just okay...

For a guy that loved Catelyn, I find it hard to believe he'd set a plan to have her daughter killed. I think he fully expected Stannis to win the battle and rescue Sansa, or have her destroy the Boltons from within if Stannis died - like they discussed. Maybe he thought she was ready, idk. Since it didn't happen, he's now wanting the Knights of the Vale to go in and rid the Boltons of Winterfell, so his intentions to keep Sansa safe may be genuine.

In any event, I'm not ready to cast him aside as a "bad guy". Not just yet.

He did say the the betting man would gamble on Stannis "Military genius, good army etc".
So I agree, I think he wanted Stannis to save her.

Well he still isn't a good guy. He did start a Lannister/Stark war, betrayed Ned (leading to a certain death). He thinks only of himself, regardless of the damage he causes. even if he loved Cat, he still got her husband killed. If you really love someone, would you get their spouse to die?
I like him because he is interesting, patient, good plotting. But I certainly don't think he is a good guy. Self serving people can't be good. They'll always put themselves before anyone, even if that means hurting them.

[mytheiya]

"She might have traded that clause for $$$$$
If that's the case she is a hypocrite, so it's not really better " (for those who didn't know she claimed that there was too much nudity in shows and cinema so she decided to fight against it by having a body double).

That being said I don't really care if she has a double or not, but that is the arguments I've been seeing this morning.

To be accurate, the nudity clause states that she can CHOOSE which scenes she is nude in, not that she WON'T go nude so your hypothesis that she traded in a no nudity clause for $$$ is moot.



On another note I think its funny how she keeps her hair in the show vs it being burned off in the books..IDK why it tickles me it just does (Maybe they just dont' wanna make silve white stubble wigs!!! LMAO)

[Paarthurnax]

I think we had all been scratching our heads wondering what Littlefinger's plan was regarding Sansa, but i think we got our answer last night. Feign Sansa being taken as an excuse to send the armies of the Vale to attack the Boltons. Sansa obviously got the raw end of the deal here as she was used as a pawn in the bigger game by Littefinger but i think Littlefinger knew that even knowing nothing about the Boltons that they would need her alive and well to solidify control of the north.

I know he had mentioned letting Boltons fight Stannis then coming in and finishing off the winner but i don't know if he is aware of how badly Stannis lost or if the armies of the Vale can match the Boltons and their northern allies alone (i don't think he knows about the Wildling army yet).

So far everything seems rather black and white, John + Wildlings + any house that will help vs Boltons + its allies with the Vale coming in for the save towards the end. I wonder what curve ball they will toss us given that the events, and how they play out seem rather straightforward. Maybe Sansa betrays Littlefinger and gets him killed after the fact?

[Deleted]

To be accurate, the nudity clause states that she can CHOOSE which scenes she is nude in, not that she WON'T go nude so your hypothesis that she traded in a no nudity clause for $$$ is moot.

I stated OVER and OVER that it's not MY hypothesis.
I don't care about body doubles or whatnot, I only care for what it changes in the show. Which is nothing.

The fact that I was corrected a few times clearly shows I don't know crap about the claims or the clause.

Someone said "Where are all the "Clarke has no-nudity clause!" people now?
I just answered that I saw the money/hypocrit hypothesis on some other social media that's all.

[Sooba]

I said it earlier, will say it again (you both missed my reply :<) It was when drogon snapped at Dany, when she was trying to tell her dragons to play nice as they were bickering.

If a dog/pet snaps at your hand your reaction is to pull your hand back. Thats what Sooba saw. Not sure why he thought it was due to fire? XD

No Tusk, it's that the conversation and reply happened before yours. We didn't miss anything. You just missed that I had responded before you did.

- - - Updated - - -

I know the scene you speak of and I had a feeling it was what he was referring to, but I wanted to let him/her find it and reply.

As I said I would. It's not like I needed feet held-to-the-fire (teehee). I've been very clear with this stuff in the past.

[Nymhi]

Super excited for the Starks story now! As for Littlefinger, he plays the game very well.

[Wilian]

The more I think of it, the more pointless whole Osha scene seems.

She was in 2 very short blurts just to be there, out of in which one she was killed.

Her character didn't serve any purpose anymore. They could've just as easily have them say "we killed the wildling that was with him" when bringing in Rickon in and save plenty of scene space to expand more upon other bits of the episode. We already know Ramsay is a douche, that didn't need to be underlined even further.

[Deleted]

The more I think of it, the more pointless whole Osha scene seems.

She was in 2 very short blurts just to be there, out of in which one she was killed.

Her character didn't serve any purpose anymore. They could've just as easily have them say "we killed the wildling that was with him" when bringing in Rickon in and save plenty of scene space to expand more upon other bits of the episode. We already know Ramsay is a douche, that didn't need to be underlined even further.

Exept if she was working with the Umbers. And having her kill Ramsay was their plan A, and it failed.

[Deleted]

What exactly is her ideology?

Until she reached Astapor, her ideology was "I'm owed the Iron Throne." And Jorah supported her in spite of her foolish decisions, and lack of statecraft. Then, she made literally one policy decision - to be anti-slavery - which she hadn't even adhered to prior to that, since she had slave girls for handmaidens. And then she went back on that when she re-opened the Fighting Pits, because, guess what, she lacks conviction and strength (in this case, political strength). Can you name one other ideology she has? Besides that the Iron Throne is hers and was usurped by Robert Baratheon?

Dany is one of the weakest characters in the book, and that weakness can be seen in the show too, though they've done their best to make her march to the Iron Throne seem legitimate. She waffles, changes her mind, is pushed around, dawdles in Slaver's Bay when she could be moving to Westeros, etc. The point of her character (to me) has always been to show the foolishness of dynastic rule, or the idea that what position you were born into made you "great." Tyrion, as a character, is a similar character - born to a great House, but despised by everyone who considers him a monster, yet he rises above it to be an actual great man. Like Tyrion says in s1, you don't need to be born illegitimately to be considered a bastard. Jon is the contrapositive of Dany - born a bastard, but rises to be one of the greatest men of the realm, while Ramsay is the bastard who is depraved and awful.

Dany's hangers-on hang on because of one of three reasons: 1) her dragons, 2) her beauty, and/or 3) her name. They did it before she had any convictions, they stuck by her through her attempts at conviction (though advising against her decisions most of the time), and they stuck with her after she went back on her "conviction."

Tell me again, how Daenerys is weak and how "fire saved her" in this last eposide. Or even better, how thousands of Dothraki bowed to her, because of her "tits".

It's a ridiculous discussion, which we should probably drop. We disagree and it's fine.

[Jotaux]

I think Emilia Clarke probably has a lot of control of when she appears nude. That's why we haven't seen it much since season 1. Obviously in this episode it was needed to give the audience the full effect of the scene.

In any event, I'm not ready to cast him aside as a "bad guy". Not just yet.

Oh, I think hes a bad guy for sure but one that wouldn't have wanted that to happen to Sansa. I mean someone as politically important as Sansa would have been kept safe. He probably thought Roose Bolton would have protected her.

[Deleted]

Can we get bets on how long it'll take Dany to fuck up and lose her army this time round?

[Tekkommo]

Can we get bets on how long it'll take Dany to fuck up and lose her army this time round?

Isn't she kinda more or less back to where she was in s2ish?

[Deleted]

Isn't she kinda more or less back to where she was in s2ish?

Basically yeah. And now she'll go and conquer Yunkai and Astapor again, and then she'll head back to Mereen.

Danys Slave Crushing 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Deleted]

Basically yeah. And now she'll go and conquer Yunkai and Astapor again, and then she'll head back to Mereen.

Danys Slave Crushing 2: Electric Boogaloo

That made me chuckle.

Isn't she kinda more or less back to where she was in s2ish?

She's not exactly at the same point. She had a few dozen people as her khalessar in s02. Now she will have thousands (tens/hundred of thousands?)
She now has real advisors (Tyrion and Varys)
And three armies (Unsullied, Second sons and Dothraki)
She now has even better odds. But:

-One big problem though, she doesn't have a single ship, and the dothraki still fear water.
-And the sons of the Harpy won't just stop like that.

[Wilderness]

-One big problem though, she doesn't have a single ship, and the dothraki still fear water.

That's true, but obviously Tyrion and the Masters just re-opened peace talks and the old offer they'd made her about giving her ships to get her out of there was mentioned this past episode, so there could be some new deal further down the line to use their ships in exchange for other concessions.

[Jotaux]

That made me chuckle.



She's not exactly at the same point. She had a few dozen people as her khalessar in s02. Now she will have thousands (tens/hundred of thousands?)
She now has real advisors (Tyrion and Varys)
And three armies (Unsullied, Second sons and Dothraki)
She now has even better odds. But:

-One big problem though, she doesn't have a single ship, and the dothraki still fear water.
-And the sons of the Harpy won't just stop like that.

She also has all the old Khaleesis advising her.

[Paarthurnax]

That made me chuckle.



She's not exactly at the same point. She had a few dozen people as her khalessar in s02. Now she will have thousands (tens/hundred of thousands?)
She now has real advisors (Tyrion and Varys)
And three armies (Unsullied, Second sons and Dothraki)
She now has even better odds. But:

-One big problem though, she doesn't have a single ship, and the dothraki still fear water.
-And the sons of the Harpy won't just stop like that.

Well the fact that we have been checking back in with the Ironborn is no coincidence. They have ships and my guess is either one of two things will happen. Whoever is made leader of the Iron Isles will decide to take their fleet west towards Meereene where either they have intentions of joining Danny and they use the Ironborn ships to get the Armies into Westeros OR they have intentions of taking Danny and her dragons and using them for their own gain, only to run into 3 full grown dragons, and 2 full sized army's. Iron born get roasted Danny takes their ships and bam they get to Westeros.

[Poppincaps]

Totally just killed all your leaders, but don't worry I can walk through fire, so it's all good. At least if the dragons saved her then there could be an intimidation factor thrown in.

Also, I thought it was stupid how they all cowered against the wall when she threw the first sconce down. The last thing I'd do if there was a fire is corner myself. Also what brave warriors cower like that? I know the point was to show that they were weak, but it was a bit too far-fetched. Them ultimately dying is fine though.

[Deleted]

That made me chuckle.



She's not exactly at the same point. She had a few dozen people as her khalessar in s02. Now she will have thousands (tens/hundred of thousands?)
She now has real advisors (Tyrion and Varys)
And three armies (Unsullied, Second sons and Dothraki)
She now has even better odds. But:

-One big problem though, she doesn't have a single ship, and the dothraki still fear water.
-And the sons of the Harpy won't just stop like that.

And she's older, hopefully wiser. One thing's sure: is she heeds Tyrion's advise, she will make it far.

Totally just killed all your leaders, but don't worry I can walk through fire, so it's all good. At least if the dragons saved her then there could be an intimidation factor thrown in.

Also, I thought it was stupid how they all cowered against the wall when she threw the first sconce down. The last thing I'd do if there was a fire is corner myself. Also what brave warriors cower like that? I know the point was to show that they were weak, but it was a bit too far-fetched. Them ultimately dying is fine though.

I agree. Which probably means it's just another lame show-thing. I can't imagine Martin writing that badly.