Legion Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[nazrakin]

Ahh k np.. I just find it annoying that all of the QQ over respec cost has now turned it into a restriction on when and where you can change talents.. You could say that the fault for all this lies squarely at the feet of the dumb ass community..

What was a minor inconvenience in cost for respec into a somewhat major one in talent changing restrictions, GG community..

What makes you think that they wouldn't have instituted this talent change regardless? This doesn't sound arbitrary, it sounds like they've identified player behavior that they don't like and they're taking steps to suppress it.

[grexly75]

What makes you think that they wouldn't have instituted this talent change regardless? This doesn't sound arbitrary, it sounds like they've identified player behavior that they don't like and they're taking steps to suppress it.

Never thought about it this way, but it does seem an interesting move by them..

[Maxweii]

It's also a move to make scribes less useless since Glyphs are so much less important from them now

[nazrakin]

Never thought about it this way, but it does seem an interesting move by them..

Yeah, the guy above didnt include it in his quote, but their full reasoning is:

An area that has appeared to need a bit more friction, however, is actually talent changes. Especially with no reagent cost at all now, it can be all too easy to activate AoE talents before larger packs of enemies in a dungeon, and then switch back to single-target talents before a lieutenant or a boss. Or someone might switch to a passive movement-speed talent when traversing an area, and then back to something functional before entering combat. At that point, we're often hardly talking about a meaningful choice at all, but rather a nuisance of extra button-presses or UI navigation before you can use your desired talents.

And so, alongside removing the respec cost, that same upcoming build will also restrict the ability to change talents when away from a safe area (defined as an area that provides the Rested state). We currently plan to give Scribes a recipe to craft a consumable Tome that can be dropped in order to allow all nearby players to retalent freely for a time - particularly useful for group play.

[Servasus]

16 100s, 6 of which are warriors (for transmog collection)

You realize warriors only unlock their armor type in the new system, right? If you've been using your warriors to farm for cloth/leather you've been wasting your time. Just because they can wear leather and cloth doesn't mean they unlock it for the wardrobe when they win those items. They made a blue post about this already.

"Community Manager
Yes, that would be correct. There are various restrictions, and it generally falls along the lines of:

You must be able to equip the armor
It must be of your primary armor type
It must be able to be obtained and equipped by your class

So, using your example, a Rogue would not unlock cloth gear they loot, as cloth is not their primary armor type.

A Mage would not unlock account-wide styles for any looted Warlock-specific armor, even though they both primarily wear cloth, as the Mage cannot equip Warlock-specific armor.
Edited by Ornyx on 1/12/2016 4:17 PM PST"

[Ethenil]

But the problem is that soon you will be restricted to when and where you can change your talents within that spec..

I know it isn't perfect, but I prefer that over the 100g cost I mean, the world is full of rest areas all around.

[Haveth]

Yeah, the guy above didnt include it in his quote, but their full reasoning is:

An area that has appeared to need a bit more friction, however, is actually talent changes. Especially with no reagent cost at all now, it can be all too easy to activate AoE talents before larger packs of enemies in a dungeon, and then switch back to single-target talents before a lieutenant or a boss. Or someone might switch to a passive movement-speed talent when traversing an area, and then back to something functional before entering combat. At that point, we're often hardly talking about a meaningful choice at all, but rather a nuisance of extra button-presses or UI navigation before you can use your desired talents.

And so, alongside removing the respec cost, that same upcoming build will also restrict the ability to change talents when away from a safe area (defined as an area that provides the Rested state). We currently plan to give Scribes a recipe to craft a consumable Tome that can be dropped in order to allow all nearby players to retalent freely for a time - particularly useful for group play.

Which really isn't a valid concern when I'm specifically going to want to swap between AoE and ST talents between bosses in dungeons and raids and it's just going to be nuisance to either teleport out and keep my group waiting or spend a tome every other fight to swap talents. I think Blizzard has the wrong idea, people generally like swapping talents on a fight by fight basis. The whole reason old talent trees were removed was because they were set and forget cookie cutter builds. If tomes are super cheap it probably won't be a big deal, but I have a feeling since it's a crafted item and not a vendor one, it's probably going to cost more over time to use tomes than to spend gold on respeccing every now and then, especially now that artifacts will most likely lock us to a main spec.

[Cooper]

Which really isn't a valid concern when I'm specifically going to want to swap between AoE and ST talents between bosses in dungeons and raids and it's just going to be nuisance to either teleport out and keep my group waiting or spend a tome every other fight to swap talents. I think Blizzard has the wrong idea, people generally like swapping talents on a fight by fight basis. The whole reason old talent trees were removed was because they were set and forget cookie cutter builds. If tomes are super cheap it probably won't be a big deal, but I have a feeling since it's a crafted item and not a vendor one, it's probably going to cost more over time to use tomes than to spend gold on respeccing every now and then, especially now that artifacts will most likely lock us to a main spec.

Blizzard is absolutely correct. Always switching to the "best" talent for any given situation renders talent choices meaningless, and strips the game of any concept of character and just renders everybody as spreadsheets with interchangeable parts.

Also, you're trying to justify on-demand talent switching by citing the old talent system as leading to cookie cutter builds, but what you're supporting is even more cookie cutter - just on a per-encounter basis. There is no difference between "put your points in these talents" and "use these talents for this fight."

[DesMephisto]

You realize warriors only unlock their armor type in the new system, right? If you've been using your warriors to farm for cloth/leather you've been wasting your time. Just because they can wear leather and cloth doesn't mean they unlock it for the wardrobe when they win those items. They made a blue post about this already.

"Community Manager
Yes, that would be correct. There are various restrictions, and it generally falls along the lines of:

You must be able to equip the armor
It must be of your primary armor type
It must be able to be obtained and equipped by your class

So, using your example, a Rogue would not unlock cloth gear they loot, as cloth is not their primary armor type.

A Mage would not unlock account-wide styles for any looted Warlock-specific armor, even though they both primarily wear cloth, as the Mage cannot equip Warlock-specific armor.
Edited by Ornyx on 1/12/2016 4:17 PM PST"

I'm not an idiot. Do you want screen shots of my inventory? The numbers I listed were for plate warrior only.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Will this scribe thing have a cooldown? Will players be able to switch talents per boss? What if a talent change could help uus kill a raid boss? I have to hearth and get summoned, or walk back if its on cooldown. This might suck. Should have explained the scribe thing better.

[Haveth]

Blizzard is absolutely correct. Always switching to the "best" talent for any given situation renders talent choices meaningless, and strips the game of any concept of character and just renders everybody as spreadsheets with interchangeable parts.

Also, you're trying to justify on-demand talent switching by citing the old talent system as leading to cookie cutter builds, but what you're supporting is even more cookie cutter - just on a per-encounter basis. There is no difference between "put your points in these talents" and "use these talents for this fight."

How is doing significantly less AoE dps when I don't pick up bladestorm, or doing significantly less ST dps when I do meaningless choice? There will always be a "best" ST and AoE choice in a row, in fact most talent trees are built around that concept, usually an AoE choice, a ST choice, and maybe a passive that could fulfill both roles. How are we going to define cookie cutter? Having a best choice on a fight by fight basis, or never touching talents at all? If Blizzard made each choice in a talent row equally acceptable in an AoE and ST scenario, you might have a point, but Blizzard gave up on that, and for good reason. Having separate AoE and ST talents is a much more viable way to balance the game.

I know when I pick up bladestorm on my warrior and pop all my cooldowns, I'm going big dick, and that's fun.

[Maxweii]

Will this scribe thing have a cooldown? Will players be able to switch talents per boss? What if a talent change could help uus kill a raid boss? I have to hearth and get summoned, or walk back if its on cooldown. This might suck. Should have explained the scribe thing better.

They said it's going to be out next build so we will see it in datamining likely this week

[Deleted]

Dual Spec destroyed class identity and is another thing Blizzard implemented back then that I am sure they regret now. Being able to switch specs willy-nilly means you are just another warrior and not Arms etc. They might as well remove specs completely, because switching without restrictions means there are no more specs in any case. You have access to all talents and abilities all the time.

[Krom2040]

Seems like the phasing issues are basically resolved as of this afternoon.

Do you think of any the "beta isn't close to finished and will have to be delayed by 3-6 months" crowd will have the balls to admit they were talking out of their asses?

[rcshaggy]

Kinda thought I got Beta Access and then it turns out it was just a Dragon Video about Overwatch.

And just wondering if I do Appearance Change, will I able too do a Race Change in the future?
Just asking, because I am hoping to get my Undead changed to a male instead of a female.

[grexly75]

Thinking about it now this change harkens back to Vanilla when you had to visit a major city to do a complete talent reset and respec, and here I was thinking people wanted the game to be like Vanilla was..

[DesMephisto]

Thinking about it now this change harkens back to Vanilla when you had to visit a major city to do a complete talent reset and respec, and here I was thinking people wanted the game to be like Vanilla was..

"You think you do, but you don't"

[grexly75]

"You think you do, but you don't"

With this change they have made it how it used to be back then.. lol

[Deleted]

Turns out that stupid talent design encourages stupid gameplay. Whodafuckingthunkit?

[DesMephisto]

Turns out that stupid talent design encourages stupid gameplay. Whodafuckingthunkit?

Changing talents and specs per boss was stupid game play in my opinion.