[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[SodiumChloride]

Fair point, and I agree, mostly. Doesn't have to be "progression" in the sense that you get a clear upgrade, I'm just thinking if you earned SOMETHING that was applicable outside of Deep Dungeons.

If they implement a tomestone reward into completing some floors though I think that would be totally fine, it's just another alternative to the other tomestone gathering methods and would be win win, IMO.

The gear can be used as glamour outside if I'm right.

As for tombstones I got a bad feeling it will somehow be twisted into being considered "mandatory".

Personally I don't mind that it's gearing system is completely independent from normal gear - assuming there is gearing at all; it's not just purely cosmetic. Although I did wish it could be used in the open world so it can be an alternative way to gain player power for open world use without depending on raiding or tombstones - probably not happening though; SE wants players to continue queuing for DF to keep its availability stable.

That said, the fact that the gear is worthless to raiding gives me hope that it can be meaningfully integrated with the rest of the game - like having crafting play a significant role in gear creation; as oppose to current crafted gear (usable in raids) being way more trouble than it's worth to acquire (by design).

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Honestly, I want to see an MMO where raiding is almost a secondary consideration or an afterthought, where raiding is not catered to in a sense that the rest of the game has to tip-toe around it. A PvE game that develops lots and lots of new non raid content all the time. And it can't be one of those self-fellating open world PvP economy MMO's that are going to be the bestest sandbox MMO ever (*cough* Archeage, BDO).

It seems that FFXIV comes the closest in this regard, but it's still given a lot away in regards to class uniqueness and making raid balance central to end game.

To be frank, I will never know why raiding is even under consideration for the main feature of an MMO (where everything is build around it) given how few players actually partake in it.

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You still claim raids are played by a minority with absolutely nothing to support it.

Please. If in WoW where Blizzard bends over backwards at the expense of everything else to prop up raid participation and it's still an activity for a minority, what hope do you think SE has?

[Granyala]

To be frank, I will never know why raiding is even under consideration for the main feature of an MMO (where everything is build around it) given how few players actually partake in it.

Mainly because no DEV has come up with other content that has similar longevity compared to a challenging raid.
Blizzard even openly admitted that once.

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You still claim raids are played by a minority with absolutely nothing to support it. FFXIV's design has made raids very approachable for all types of players with Heavensward.

I think he was talking about WoW style raids, where you have to manually form groups and thus meet ridiculous requirements to even be graced the luxury of a PuG.

I agree that in FF raids are very accessible. Mostly due to the fact that they are extremely forgiving (though certainly not as braindead as WoWs LFR) and you can just queue LFR style.

[SodiumChloride]

Mainly because no DEV has come up with other content that has similar longevity compared to a challenging raid.
Blizzard even openly admitted that once.

Not that they tried all that hard. Everything that isn't raiding that they have tried they pretty half-assed then have the cheek to declare it a bad/unpopular idea.

[Fadewind]

I wouldn't even say that raids have THAT much longevity. Especially in WoW. Due to the stupid rate of ilvl increase, the first raid of the expansion is completely obsolete by the end. Outside of skins, mounts, pets, and achievements, there is no real reason to go back to an old raid. I'd say that any raiding in an MMO has that issue once a new expansion comes out, but SE at least tries to address it in FFXIV by the level and item sync features.

Blizzard also isn't a great company for coming up with new ideas. Or when they do to stick to them. I originally liked the LFD system put in place during Wrath. It was a great catch up mechanic for the ever-increasing necessity of tier armor, plus allowed for gear grinding outside of a weekly raid for alt specs.

For better or worse, I do like that SE kept the same system going and expanded it to all forms of gear. While I know a LOT of people want armor and weapons to do weird things besides give stats (which has only led to problems in MMOs), I don't think putting it on those pieces would be best. That seems something better for materia so the effects remain relevant throughout the game's life cycle.


As for Deep Dungeon being necessary, that'll depend on which kind of tomestones it drops. We can get to the highest tier tombstone cap without it. It'd just add something else to get there. I'm thinking it'll be part of the previous tier to be an additional catchup mechanic. With the anima weapons, they can always add extra things to speed up the progression of those if hardcore raiders want a reason to do DD.

[Faroth]

Please. If in WoW where Blizzard bends over backwards at the expense of everything else to prop up raid participation and it's still an activity for a minority, what hope do you think SE has?

Considering it doesn't take that long to get an Alexander run in Duty Finder any given night of the week.....

But you're never going to accept that people actually run Alexander except for a tiny percent of players, so no point arguing.

[alturic]

Just started the trial yesterday, level 15 so far and the game seems fairly solid the only things that stand out to me so far are:

Holy Cutscenes! - Anyway to auto-skip?
Quest accept/turn-in takes too long - Too much dialog to keep clicking through.
Slow combat - Not really a bad part of the game, just seems to be a longer GCD than I've ever seen in any MMO.
Mob "special" attacks - I don't know if this follows the rest of the game, but it is a rather nice feature seeing the cone or the AOE radius that some of the mobs "special" attacks have. Does this follow through the rest of the game, raids too?

So far, I'm diggin' it overall.

I think he was talking about WoW style raids, where you have to manually form groups and thus meet ridiculous requirements to even be graced the luxury of a PuG.

I agree that in FF raids are very accessible. Mostly due to the fact that they are extremely forgiving (though certainly not as braindead as WoWs LFR) and you can just queue LFR style.

Wait, are the raids in FF (Savage I think it is?) not comparable to Mythic in WoW?

[Faroth]

Just started the trial yesterday, level 15 so far and the game seems fairly solid the only things that stand out to me so far are:

Holy Cutscenes! - Anyway to auto-skip?
Quest accept/turn-in takes too long - Too much dialog to keep clicking through.
Slow combat - Not really a bad part of the game, just seems to be a longer GCD than I've ever seen in any MMO.

So far, I'm diggin' it overall.

If you're looking for a WoW-esque MMO where the story is really irrelevant and you want to skip everything, FFXIV is an odd choice. It's a story driven JRPG at its heart, which can really draw you into it if you let it.

But Escape should bring up an option to skip cutscenes if you insist.

The slow GCD allows for decent adjusting as you get more skills, especially depending on what you're playing. Some classes have directional requirements (be behind/flanking a mob) so that movement flows into the rhythm of your rotation and the GCD allows time to make that move and hit your skill as soon as you're in position/it's up and start moving again.

[alturic]

If you're looking for a WoW-esque MMO where the story is really irrelevant and you want to skip everything, FFXIV is an odd choice. It's a story driven JRPG at its heart, which can really draw you into it if you let it.

But Escape should bring up an option to skip cutscenes if you insist.

The slow GCD allows for decent adjusting as you get more skills, especially depending on what you're playing. Some classes have directional requirements (be behind/flanking a mob) so that movement flows into the rhythm of your rotation and the GCD allows time to make that move and hit your skill as soon as you're in position/it's up and start moving again.

Not really looking for a WoW-esque MMO, just looking for any MMO that can hook me like WoW once did. Perhaps when I get my 1080 I'll go back to Rift, one of the best MMOs behind WoW, imo. I never care about story/lore in any game. Yea, I know how to skip them, just sucks there's so many. :P

[Kazgrel]

Just started the trial yesterday, level 15 so far and the game seems fairly solid the only things that stand out to me so far are:

Holy Cutscenes! - Anyway to auto-skip?
Quest accept/turn-in takes too long - Too much dialog to keep clicking through.
Slow combat - Not really a bad part of the game, just seems to be a longer GCD than I've ever seen in any MMO.
Mob "special" attacks - I don't know if this follows the rest of the game, but it is a rather nice feature seeing the cone or the AOE radius that some of the mobs "special" attacks have. Does this follow through the rest of the game, raids too?

So far, I'm diggin' it overall.



Wait, are the raids in FF (Savage I think it is?) not comparable to Mythic in WoW?

Savage raids here more or less mirror WoW's mythic raids in the sense you have to form your own group for them (or at least you did in WoW up until a couple months ago) and they are the most difficult raid content in the game. As to which one is "more difficult" between WoW mythic raids vs. FF14 savage raids, I can't comment on, because I haven't bothered with either.

As for the other items:

- You can hit escape to zip through cut scenes, and there's an option somewhere (exactly where I forget) that lets you auto-skip any scenes you've already seen (such as the intro ones to dungeons).
- Quest turn in is as fast as I can click, for the most part, so I'm not seeing this issue (and no, I don't click at the speed of molasses going up hill in the winter)
- The GCD is slower, but at later levels you'll come to appreciate it, for between oGCD abilities and skill/spell speed, the combat will flow very quickly. But yeah, if you're a veteran of WoW and/or other MMOs, this game will feel sluggish combat-wise for a while
- Not all mobs/bosses telegraph their attacks with the orange circles/cones, but a majority of them do. Some you have to watch for a cast bar and/or animation (Steropes, a FATE mob in Coerthas Central, teaches this lesson every day).

[Faroth]

Not really looking for a WoW-esque MMO, just looking for any MMO that can hook me like WoW once did. Perhaps when I get my 1080 I'll go back to Rift, one of the best MMOs behind WoW, imo. I never care about story/lore in any game. Yea, I know how to skip them, just sucks there's so many. :P

Again, it's a very story driven JRPG first and foremost. Hence why there's a lot of.... story.

My friend never cared about story/lore either, but FFXIV hooked him by the end of 2.0 cycle.

But no, there's no way to auto-skip and just ignore the majority of the game. Sorry! XD

You can only auto-skip the dungeon cut scenes after you've seen them once.

[Kazgrel]

Finally...this week (ideally tonight) I'll be finishing up my hyperconductive weapon. Just missing a couple right side lore pieces at this point, then it's gg until 3.3. Getting close to seeing light (or something that resembles it) on the crafting push, thanks to leves (all DoH at 45 now). Odd thing is, the lvl 45 leves appear to grant less xp than the level 40 ones I was just grinding out for 40-45. Worst case, I may just let my allowances build up at this point and simply go back to my old method of simply doing all the GC turn ins, or at this point, only the gold star ones, plus Ixali dailies.

[Kaelwryn]

Numpad 0 is IMO faster for skipping.

[SodiumChloride]

Considering it doesn't take that long to get an Alexander run in Duty Finder any given night of the week.....

But you're never going to accept that people actually run Alexander except for a tiny percent of players, so no point arguing.

Ah ... the LFR argument ...

Nerf the content (either directly or indirectly via gear) and hope enough geared people are available to carry the majority.

It's pretty clear that raid content was not meant to be consumed that way.

The question you have to ask is, "Is it fun?". Or are non-raiders just in there to grind out gear, the same way you farm mobs in older MMOs, and never play it again after they got what they came for - I haven't set foot in Alex since I got the 7th gear for my weapon; won't be doing that grind again LOL.

Frankly, you can make players do just about any activity if you put good enough rewards behind it but that doesn't mean they are enjoying the activity.

Do the majority of players ever think to themselves, "I feel like raiding right now." like a player that enjoyed a game like say Dark Souls/Gran Turismo say to themselves "Feel like playing a little Dark Souls/take GT out for a spin at the moment."?

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Holy Cutscenes! - Anyway to auto-skip?

Nope. It isn't half bad. Typical of a Final Fantasy game. One of the better points of the game IMHO.

Miles ahead of the BS that Blizzard calls a story in WoW.

Quest accept/turn-in takes too long - Too much dialog to keep clicking through.

You are suppose to read the text. Otherwise just spam click through it.

Slow combat - Not really a bad part of the game, just seems to be a longer GCD than I've ever seen in any MMO.

That's the way it is. You will get use to it.

Mob "special" attacks - I don't know if this follows the rest of the game, but it is a rather nice feature seeing the cone or the AOE radius that some of the mobs "special" attacks have. Does this follow through the rest of the game, raids too?

Yupe.

[Granyala]

Wait, are the raids in FF (Savage I think it is?) not comparable to Mythic in WoW?

Yes, but the normal versions of these encounters are easily pugged via LFR tool.


I cleared Alexander Midas no problem and thus got to see the story.
Mechanics matter a lot more than in LFR though. Thanks to the vulnerability stack system (you get a debuff that makes you take more damage if you mishandle a mechanic) the game forgives 1-2 Errors every 2 minutes, but gimping + stacking vuln = death.
As a healer I find that 3+ stacks get very punishing to heal against. It is possible but only if you overgear the content ant pay special attention to the DPS in question.

I found it to be an excellent teaching tool.

[Faroth]

*snip*.

Like I said, nothing is going to ever convince you that you're not 100% right regarding raid content and its activity. I'm not going to bother trying.

[SodiumChloride]

Like I said, nothing is going to ever convince you that you're not 100% right regarding raid content and its activity. I'm not going to bother trying.

Sure thing. The feeling is mutual.

Doubt you will change you mind either no matter how much I explain.

Just have to wait and see if SE is as stubborn as Blizzard when it comes to content. It's a good thing SE has a background in RPGs in general that they can draw upon, in contrast to Blizzard that let Furor run the place staffing his echo chamber with raiders.

[Deleted]

*swirls off topic*

is it just me or does nobody ever do the frontline roulette anymore? Yesterday I was in queue for over 2 hours. No matter what role I pick (though I don't think that really matters as we sometimes get teamed up with just dps). It's also been ages since I was put into one of those big matches where each side has 3 groups. Although I don't really mind that since those matches took way long.

It's a nice influx of lore tomestones. 40 in total. I'm surprised it seems so impopular. Even still right after the weekly reset. I guess everyone already got their tomestones by now.

[Kaelwryn]

what datacenter/gc are you?

[Wrecktangle]

While I know a LOT of people want armor and weapons to do weird things besides give stats (which has only led to problems in MMOs), I don't think putting it on those pieces would be best. That seems something better for materia so the effects remain relevant throughout the game's life cycle.

I agree with this point. While I think that cool effects/things shouldn't be armor/weapons (they certainly could, even effectively), I think that using the materia system as a form of horizontal progression would be better.

Have people get involved in other content to unlock various materia that augments skills. This game is in desperate need of some sort of horizontal progression.

I actually don't mind BNS upgrading scheme. Sure its a tedious and long grind, but it is sprinkled with a ton of horizontal gearing that is actually fun.

Weapon/Accessory upgrades are your vertical progression. Soul Shields (think like armor pieces) are both stat customize-able and interchangeable (i.e. some content makes it particularly useful to trade some offensive stats for defensive ones) and then you have your Hongmoon Skills. Hongmoon skills are powerful final tiers of your existing skillset that cost extra skill points to invest in. During cutting edge content they drop out of the hardest dungeons, but during catchup they can be acquired via the achievement vendor. It to me is a really nice touch to be able to get the skills eventually and drives me to participate in other content to gather achievement points for upcoming skills.

I also love the market in this game. Everything is worth something. Every single item that is sell-able is generally sold very quickly on the marketplace.

The game has its flaws and plenty of them, but I find character progression in this game more fun than any MMO I've played recently..

[Aruhen]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001476.html

...Is that a pony boss that I see?