Bastion is just anti-fun -.-

[stomination]

He's far, far too powerful for his role. I've watched him in his killcam's and Play of the Games basically just swirving from target to target getting kills in barely two seconds while being far apart from each other.

He's basically the Techies of Overwatch. Yes, he can be countered easily. Yes, you just dedicated a good deal of your effort to countering one person and thus allowing the rest of his team free reign to do what they came to do while you're distracted or dead.

I just got out of a game where I was on defense so I just picked Bastion because I felt like "cheating." Eight player kill streak for standing in one spot where I was easily spotted. They continuously kept trying to sneak through the same paths to kill me so I press Mouse1 at them until they stopped. Finally killed by a mercy ultimate after being zerged and the bodies got back up.

I do that with both snipers and tjorb. Chokepoints are so nice when ur team holds them.

[Dug]

Yep. One match I played as reaper was a capture-the-point match. My team was getting wrecked, and there was a Mei trying to hold the point against three of the enemy team when I showed up. She died right as I dove in and popped my ult, killing all three of 'em. I then managed to, over the next 20 seconds, kill the rest of the enemy team as they ran at the point one by one. Not by standing on the point, but by running around and ducking around pillars, forcing them to get on the point to try and take it, but not giving them a shot at me until they were in close, so it was my strength. After that, my own team was rezzing and getting back to the point.

Not bragging; it was a good time to pop my ult, but I'm not spectacularly good or anything. Just pointing out that Reaper is a strong character. If you're running at the enemy's face, you're playing him "wrong". Circle around, use that teleport to backdoor, keep moving. Jump into the back of the entire enemy team, murder their Mercy, pop your shadow cloak as they all try and kill you, and laugh. That's how you Reaper. Don't play him like Soldier 76 with shotguns.

All well said, I feel like even if people want to use him like a soldier 76 with shotguns he's not that ineffective at it. Again with knowing your limits, Reaper is pretty tanky as far as offensive heros go and can survive team fights really well so long as people not panic and hit wraith form the second they take a bit of damage. I don't think people utilize his self healing orbs all that much to know he can go the distance in a team fight if you push him to the absolute limit and only wraith form when necessary.

But that said I think a lot of gripes people have with particular heroes stems from people wanting to find a favorite and never switching from it. Reaper can be effective in all types of situations of course but sometimes it's better to switch to somebody else that can do the job better.

[Coronius]

Some interesting information: Bastions' damage in Recon mode is about equal to Soldier-76.

Think about that for a moment.

[Endus]

Some interesting information: Bastions' damage in Recon mode is about equal to Soldier-76.

Think about that for a moment.

If you ignore that Soldier 76 has helix rockets and that he can drop his healing aura and keep dodging while healing.

So yeah; not really.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Bastion's turret mode needs to change at some point. Torbjörn used to have the same issue of being pretty obnoxious because of his turret having too much power, which meant that unless you had a capable team who could deal with it, you were pretty much stuck. I would consider Torbjörn to be a better designed Hero than Bastion because he now has more dimensions to his gameplay than before. His gun and armour make him more fun to play and his turret does not hurt nearly as much as it used to.

Bastion on the other hand has the same problem as he used to. His turret damage is too high and he can keep spraying for a long time before going out of ammo, which in turn encourages constant spraying. If the enemy team is at least a little competent they will make sure that their Bastion is safe and that in turn makes his gameplay a very unfun experience. There really is no interesting depth to his gameplay and as an opposing player he has no satisfying counterplay. He is not healthy for the game, especially when he is not really that good in high competitive games, and just leaves new players with a sour taste in their mouths.

[Baconeggcheese]

I like how, "Pro teams don't use Bastion!" is thrown around as proof that he sucks, even though pro teams DO use him.

Meanwhile, Reaper literally almost never sees play, but the same people are all on about how good he is.

Every time I've seen him in competitive play he virtually always gets shut down and switched off of almost immediately. I mean the other thread showed that quite well with the videos linked.

surprise bastion

That was fun to watch.

Hell just baiting people to follow you into a narrow close quarter will be their down fall as well. Only person that could go 1v1 with reaper is Roadhog I'd say or maybe a good Genji.

Bae shits on reaper, the reaper gets like 2 shots before he can't turn his camera so if you get the drop on him much the same way if reaper gets the drop on others he just falls over. I play reaper more than anything else and I just avoid mei like the plague a lot of the time.

[jac9996]

Bastion's turret mode needs to change at some point. Torbjörn used to have the same issue of being pretty obnoxious because of his turret having too much power, which meant that unless you had a capable team who could deal with it, you were pretty much stuck. I would consider Torbjörn to be a better designed Hero than Bastion because he now has more dimensions to his gameplay than before. His gun and armour make him more fun to play and his turret does not hurt nearly as much as it used to.

Bastion on the other hand has the same problem as he used to. His turret damage is too high and he can keep spraying for a long time before going out of ammo, which in turn encourages constant spraying. If the enemy team is at least a little competent they will make sure that their Bastion is safe and that in turn makes his gameplay a very unfun experience. There really is no interesting depth to his gameplay and as an opposing player he has no satisfying counterplay. He is not healthy for the game, especially when he is not really that good in high competitive games, and just leaves new players with a sour taste in their mouths.

I disagree every hero has its counters if every hero can deal with him effectively then thats not good for bastion why play him at all? He lost his shield to make him more balance, his counters are a good sniper widowmaker and hanzo can easy deal with him and take him out in afew hits or make him leave his sentry stance which then makes it easier for other characters to deal with him too. New players need to learn to react to the enemy teams comp you cant stick to the same character if they have good counters out for your teams comp or you will loss you need to switch to get counters out for there comp to get back into it thats the whole reason for being able to switch characters mid game.

More just need to learn how to deal with him in my opinion doesnt warrant any more nerfs to him.

[Endus]

Not really, no. Not sure if anyone actually watched the last $5000 beta tournament, but Bastion saw quite a bit of action.

I really feel like all of this, "Bastion is dumb and weak and only a noob killer" stuff is something that just keeps getting repeated over and over and people want to parrot it so that they don't sound un-knowledgeable or don't open themselves up to, "Well if you think he's good, then you're a noob" nonsense.

In my opinion he's not overpowered, but he is quite viable. Not top tier perhaps, and not something that you play all the time, but he does tend to force an answer out of the enemy team or has the potential to capitalize on mistakes like no one else quite can depending on the map in question.

I don't think I've ever said he's bad. He's just not significantly better than other heroes. He fits a niche, and he's clearly going to be king in that niche (otherwise, he'd be utterly pointless as a hero), but there are glaring weak points (as with every hero) that can be capitaized on by his opponents.

I just get tired of people complaining that you can't charge directly into Bastion's sentry fire and "win".

[Baconeggcheese]

Not really, no. Not sure if anyone actually watched the last $5000 beta tournament, but Bastion saw quite a bit of action.

I really feel like all of this, "Bastion is dumb and weak and only a noob killer" stuff is something that just keeps getting repeated over and over and people want to parrot it so that they don't sound un-knowledgeable or don't open themselves up to, "Well if you think he's good, then you're a noob" nonsense.

In my opinion he's not overpowered, but he is quite viable. Not top tier perhaps, and not something that you play all the time, but he does tend to force an answer out of the enemy team or has the potential to capitalize on mistakes like no one else quite can depending on the map in question.

Like I said in the other thread, the reason for the vehement responses is that people are acting like bastion is a lot stronger than he is. People lay on the hyperbole super thick that bastion is insanely OP or something, and then people respond with the same level of hyperbole.

Again as I said in the other thread, he's this games noob tube. He's very high power for low skill, but there's absolutely stronger strategies in the game for more skilled players.

By the way do you know any specific spots in said tournament you'd show as him being used to great effect?

I found this as the most recent thing on the overwatch channel and I skimmed it real quick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEQ3N_PVPjs

and seagull was the only player to use bastion, he used it on lijang(?) and it wasn't the worst thing in the world but it forced his entire team to play around him which worked for 1 push when they initially started doing it and once the enemy team realized they were doing that they promptly steamrolled them then turned the entire game around to win.

The other 2 times seagull used bastion during that video were when they were on defense and the payload was about to push the very last point as sort of a last ditch effort and both times it didn't help him stop the payload at all.

Which is pretty typical of every time I've seen bastion used in these things, I'm not sure if you've seen him used to great effect in a different video from said tournament, but everything else I've seen is mostly him getting shut down with the occasion OK moments here and there.

[Elbleino]

I've learned one thing from this thread, and I'm going to share some words of wisdom from the Dark Souls community. *ahem* GIT GUD. Bastion is super easy to deal with, if you're good. If not, then just keep walking into my gunfire and feeding me kills.

[Baconeggcheese]

but he's also not "useless in organized play" or something as people seem to suggest.

Again that level of hyperbole comes to counter the hyberbole that he's this insanely OP force that people make him out to be in threads like these.

If you're going to latch on to one groups hyperbole understand that the other is being just as hyperbolic.

[Tenris]

Bastion is one of the few characters that forces you to swap heroes, he can have such a huge impact when left unchecked and if you dont have a counter to him someone needs to swap. I think a slightly increased spread just to make him a tiny bit worse at long range but besides that hes fine.

[IxilaFA]

Yes, Luminosity used him several times (though they weren't the winning team) and Cloud 9 used him several times in the same tournament (and were the winning team).

And even if we say, "Well, he didn't have that big of an impact for Luminosity" he still saw a hell of a lot more playtime than some other characters. He's no Widowmaker or McCree in terms of overall playtime, but he's also not "useless in organized play" or something as people seem to suggest.

And again nobody is complaining constantly about McCree and Widowmaker. But people who say Bastion is useless are just as clueless as the people who say he is overpowered.

[Dug]

Bastion is one of the few characters that forces you to swap heroes, he can have such a huge impact when left unchecked and if you dont have a counter to him someone needs to swap. I think a slightly increased spread just to make him a tiny bit worse at long range but besides that hes fine.

That's a good thing though, a hero that "forces" someone to counter is what this game is all about. People need to stop being so stubborn and only stick to a single hero because it's their favorite.

[Deleted]

I like Junkrat vs holed up heroes.

Bastion goes down easily, so does Tbjorn turret, maybe even the lil dwarf due to the AoE.

Widowmakers sometime die too, if they aren't careful to the shower of grenades.

[Museigen]

Anybody got a link to tournament statistics showing this high amount of bastion usage?

[Coronius]

If you ignore that Soldier 76 has helix rockets and that he can drop his healing aura and keep dodging while healing.

So yeah; not really.

I was talking about his damage. The Helix Rockets I can agree with, but his healing has absolutely nothing to do with what I said (not to mention that Bastion has 100 armor on top of his 200 health, which is more than Soldier to begin with). We might as well compare ultis if that's what we're discussing. I get that you really like Bastion, but you've blindly defended this hero for days now to the point of absurdity, despite the fact that he's the hero to get most complaints by the community by far.

Barring the rockets (which can only be used once every 8 seconds, mind you), it's ludicrous that Bastions' damage in Recon mode is on par with an all-out Assault character IMHO. It's not even his primary damage-dealing configuration, which speaks for itself.

[Endus]

I was talking about his damage. The Helix Rockets I can agree with, but his healing has absolutely nothing to do with what I said (not to mention that Bastion has 100 armor on top of his 200 health, which is more than Soldier to begin with). We might as well compare ultis if that's what we're discussing. I get that you really like Bastion, but you've blindly defended this hero for days now to the point of absurdity, despite the fact that he's the hero to get most complaints by the community by far.

Barring the rockets (which can only be used once every 8 seconds, mind you), it's ludicrous that Bastions' damage in Recon mode is on par with an all-out Assault character IMHO. It's not even his primary damage-dealing configuration, which speaks for itself.

No, what's ridiculous is people trying to break down a highly-active competitive shooter to some napkin math about damage numbers on primary weapons alone.

Fights in Overwatch don't involve you dumping your bullets into a giant sponge, like WoW boss fights. It's a completely different environment, and you can't evaluate weapons properly unless you're A> factoring in ALL factors, including spread, damage falloff, etc, and B> including ALL other abilities available to each hero, and C> all weaknesses for each hero.

[Endus]

Well yes, but it's still a numbers game on the backend once you hash it all out. McCree isn't popular because of his rugged good looks, but because that gun has a very large damage number attached to it in the database.

Unless you can quantify player reaction times and so forth, it isn't "just a numbers game". Not the way WoW is, where things like global cooldowns and autotargeting make that human factor much less impactful, outside of decision-making.

And you still need to quantify all those other factors, too. Heck, even in WoW; this is why run speed was always a go-to enchant for most raiders, because run speed meant less time running out of fires which meant more uptime on DPS/heals/etc. With something like Overwatch, it's nearly impossible to quantify properly, because how do you quantify Hanzo popping out of far range to headshot Bastion in Sentry mode before ducking back and readying his next shot?

[Anzaman]

Bastion is one of the few characters that forces you to swap heroes, he can have such a huge impact when left unchecked and if you dont have a counter to him someone needs to swap. I think a slightly increased spread just to make him a tiny bit worse at long range but besides that hes fine.

I've rarely felt the need to actually change hero to counter him.. but then again I'm quite often stuck in tank/support role. "Mainly" playing Reinhardt can make Bastions life quite annoying when I'm ~100% of the time grouped up with my brother, so he can take out Bastion while I keep shield up.

As for increasing spread on longer ranges, I'd be OK with it as I rarely even try to snipe with him.. if enemy team has Widowmaker.. and they almost always do.., then it's not even ideal to sit in such spots.

It's quite funny how rarely people check upstairs/air while playing. Was defending Hanamura, last control point, as Bastion.. whole enemy team rolled on the point while I kept firing from upstairs/loft.. only one of them figured me out, but too late and I survived with 10 health.