20 Man Mythic: Success or Failure?

[Jaylock]

Hi boyz!

From a raiders perspective, was 20 man mythic raiding a success or failure in your eyes?

Should they have kept the 25 man setup for the highest form of raiding, or do you like the 20 man format now?

Remember, in vanilla we had 20 man raids that were extremely fun: ZG, AQ20

[Deleted]

From my semi-casual but enjoy to raid difficult stuff viewpoint; I disliked it. Would prefer an option for smaller.

As a grown adult who understands he can't get everything he wants and from a raid encounter perspective it seemed like it worked.

[Deleted]

I think they should have kept 10man for highest difficulty alongside 20. Both 25 and 10 both were difficult depending on boss. I find 20 man raiding less enjoyable due to the fact that it's a less tight group. As someone that has social anxiety it is hard getting used to talking in a 10 man group but i managed cause you learned to know the people and not that many people were talking at the same time. And now in a 20 man group it is hard to feel more than just a number and join into conversations.

It's not that I dislike 20 man, I just rather had it as 10 man.

[kamal445]

For the small guilds like mine it has been a failure. Being just 10 man to raid having to get another 10 to see mythic is a pain in the ass. That's why I didn't raid mythic.

[PrairieChicken]

Oh it's a Jaylock! Should I bite?

[Albimoo]

From my semi-casual but enjoy to raid difficult stuff viewpoint; I disliked it. Would prefer an option for smaller.

As a grown adult who understands he can't get everything he wants and from a raid encounter perspective it seemed like it worked.

You're a gem. Thank you.


I liked it, the designed some great fights as a result. Had to find a new guild and am not raiding with everyone i was when i started (guild broke up, some quit, etc...) but the raid quality is something that cant be denied.

[Alydael]

Big failure, for two main reasons:

1) Less guilds raiding mythic and the switch to a strict 20 man mythic broke guilds up.

2) None of the great mechanics Blizz claimed they were going to be able to incorporate based on the set 20 man limited ever appeared. The raid bosses were good, but they weren't anything really better than mythic bosses when it was flex (and still called heroic). At least I didn't notice a big difference.

If the change to set 20 man mattered, you would have noticed the improvement.

[Jaylock]

I think they should have kept 10man for highest difficulty alongside 20. Both 25 and 10 both were difficult depending on boss. I find 20 man raiding less enjoyable due to the fact that it's a less tight group. As someone that has social anxiety it is hard getting used to talking in a 10 man group but i managed cause you learned to know the people and not that many people were talking at the same time. And now in a 20 man group it is hard to feel more than just a number and join into conversations.

It's not that I dislike 20 man, I just rather had it as 10 man.

Good points. One thing I have found as I've raided the 20 man format, is it feels pretty tight knit still.

20 people only is 4 5 man groups. And when it comes to guild management, we have noticed that with a reduction to 20 or an increase from 10, it hasn't been too difficult to keep an active roster. And for the most part, everyone seems to know and like eachother.

I see the merit in 10, but now that the lower difficulties are a flex format, you hardly ever see 10 people anymore. It's more like 14+

[Riistov]

I like it for the most part.

20 feels like kind of a sweet spot for raiding imo.

[Tehterokkar]

Success.

Raid encounters are tightly tuned in this expansion and they can do a lot of special shit that they otherwise couldn't do(eg. Blast Furnace Mind Controls).

[Chaelexi]

Honestly the 10 man format was horrible to balance from. If you go from ToT where 10 man balance was almost too easy on some fights to near impossible on others. Especially now with more than 10 available classes it made it so there had to be one of every class and in some cases every spec available and multiples except for FotM DPS as a huge detractor. Making fights solely 20 man and not 25 and 10 have made it so that getting proper class balance is possible with some flexibility in choices(yes there will always be FotM stacking for world progression) and they only have to balance one actual progression raid tier. This expac has seen some of the most creative boss mechanics and fights over previous boss. It is unfortunate that the tiers were poorly spaced.

[LilSaihah]

I think it was a success overall. The problem is with Normal and Heroic feeling more or less the same.

1) Less guilds raiding mythic and the switch to a strict 20 man mythic broke guilds up.

Wrong metric. Players, not guilds, should be what you're tracking. If raids suddenly go from 10 man to 20 man, it only follows that there will be half as many raiding guilds.

[Paula Deen]

It killed my guild. It killed multiple guilds that my friends were in.

It was a failure.

[Soulfighter101]

Personally I prefer 10 man raiding, it's more tight knit and far easier to coordinate then 25m or 20m. A lot of 10 man end-game raiding guilds folded, shit i saw more guilds then any other expac fold in the last year. HOWEVER, the focus of mythic raiding was to make tuning more fair, and to be a group size compromise between 10 and 25.

Do I like it? No
Did it make Mythic (heroic) raids more focused and balanced? Absolutely

[Deleted]

#1 AMG Jay-not-Robert-Lock is back
#2 where is the poll noob?
#3 yes it was a success and the only good thing of wod.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Considering the number of class/spec combinations we NEVER see in raids now because of very limited room I'd say it's bad, should have remained 25man so that you'd sometimes see some monks and such.

[Deleted]

I see the merit in 10, but now that the lower difficulties are a flex format, you hardly ever see 10 people anymore. It's more like 14+

The problem I found with flex format is that it allows too much cheesing by inviting a high ilvl friend which often robs the group of the kill. Had so many fights that felt like we were close to killing on our own but RL ends up inviting a high ilvl friend and the boss dies. If I could have chosen to take my 10 raiders and do difficult raids we might have stayed subbed all expansion.

I probably should have just taken the plunge and found 20man Mythic guild but leaving everyone just felt wrong.

[Ham on Rye]

Hi boyz!

From a raiders perspective, was 20 man mythic raiding a success or failure in your eyes?

Should they have kept the 25 man setup for the highest form of raiding, or do you like the 20 man format now?

Remember, in vanilla we had 20 man raids that were extremely fun: ZG, AQ20

It has been wildly successful, and I look forward to them keeping this structure going forward.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem I found with flex format is that it allows too much cheesing by inviting a high ilvl friend which often robs the group of the kill. Had so many fights that felt like we were close to killing on our own but RL ends up inviting a high ilvl friend and the boss dies. If I could have chosen to take my 10 raiders and do difficult raids we might have stayed subbed all expansion.

That's not a problem with the flex format. That's a problem with your raid leader.

[Alvito]

It completely depends on the server you are on. Many servers just had the top end or raiding cut off from them due to roster issues that weren't a problem in MoP when you could do heroics, the highest difficulty at the time, with 10. It crushed guilds, raids and servers to go from full clears in the hardest content to not even being able to try the first bosses due to the roster.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Success for sure. No question in my mind.
Not being able to find players or stuff like that isn't related to the concept, its just a problem with your guild.

Having proper balance is way too important and having a fixed size does wonders for that.