Can I cry now? *Spoilers*

[Thrif]

This is pretty much any war story. Especially in fantasy and Sci-Fi, why? Because everyone likes a figure to cast as important, especially if we demand a one over arching super power villain. Stop acting like Blizzard is the only company to use this trope, its an insanely common trope in writing. In fact, it is the most used trope as it is the basis for the epic.

It's common, but it's far from "any war story," lol. Even Blizzard has done way better in the past. Like, StarCraft for example. Three distinct races vying for supremacy over a sector in the universe, all with their own sub-groups and characters who had reasons and personalities. There was no chosen one, no banding together (outside of temporary alliances, which is a completely different deal), no overarching enemy who was bad just to be bad. And it was a lot better than anything they've come up with since.

And yes, it is the most common tropes. And no, Blizzard aren't the only ones who does it. That doesn't mean that it's a good thing that they are doing it, or that they can't do better.

This is fucking Gilgamesh for christ sake. Star Wars, same trope.

Yeah well, star wars always sucked.

All comics, same trope (see Justice League/Avengers - One super powered one sacrifices self to stop great evil),

This is a silly argument. Comics holds thousands of different stories. Some definitely fit into the category, but that's to be assumed from a sample size that big. Comics have told most stories, traveled most places, had most plots and plot twists, and they are far from all being able to fit that category.

Song of Fire and Ice for all you newbies,

Nope. While a Song of Ice and Fire has the elements that might end up telling that story with Azor Ahai, the Others etc, we really don't know if that's how it will end up. What we have so far is just the War of the Five Kings, which is inspired by the War of the Roses, which is actual history and not that one boring trope.

(you probably want to get the title right before calling people newbies the next time)

Alien (Ripley)

Oh, I'd love to hear your arguments about this one. The evil for being evil I can buy, but where does the chosen one come in, and the banding together?

If you don't like the trope write a new one. Good luck with that btw, as writers have been attempting it for 100s of years and are yet to do it. Especially in the sense of an all encompassing world. Otherwise it will always feel disjointed or you are just telling the story of a small subset of people within the larger group. To tell an epic you need epic characters and leaders and large than life characters that overcome great odds, but have flaws otherwise they are super dull. Redemption is a part of every character's story otherwise they are either wholey good or wholey evil.

Uh, there are a lot of stories that aren't this exact trope. ASOIAF, which you mentioned, is pretty darn epic without having the need for either someone who is evil just to be evil, or any chosen ones. And that's one of the most all encompassing.

But we can mock this anti-hero, redemption, the one trope all we want, but it is all around us and it makes sense from a story telling point of view and allows focal point heroes. Otherwise its just a war story where no one matters, no one is special and we are just soldiers fighting. Those stories can be entertaining, but when you choose to have one Bad Guy, you need his nemesis or opposite. Otherwise it sets off a weird imbalance of how one guy could get so much power, but the other side can't muster that.

I'm not a huge Illidan fan at all, but the story trope makes sense, whether its played out or not (I mean its older than large swaths of civilization), but it works.

The fact that it's old and has been around for so long isn't really an argument for that it's good. The same thing can be said for keeping slaves and marrying minors.

It made sense back in the day when good and evil was concepts very different than the ones we have today, and stories relatively scarce. I mean, Tolkiens LOTR is probably one of the most famous examples, but when he wrote it it was still somewhat new.

However, in the modern world with the abundance of stories we have now, it's dull and stale. It's mostly used by immature authors (Eragon), or mediums directed to a younger audience (Naruto). Good vs evil is a childish way to view the world when in reality, it's never that simple. That's why more mature audiences is interested in more mature stories.

And that's the problem. Blizzard is writing stories for children, when their audience is a lot more mature. Whether it's because they're clueless about their demography or too scared or incapable of writing something more interesting, I don't really know. But it's been like this for a long time, and nobody neither expects Blizzard game to have a decent story anymore, nor does anyone play their games for it.

[Seifross]

I feel like they originally meant for Anduin to fill this role but they just shoehorned Illidan in for sales. Isn't that what they did in cata but instead of illidan and anduin it was thrall and Med'an?

The point is clearly that the Naaru is so much older that Illidan is a "boy" in relative terms. You can't believe that they replaced Anduin with Illidan at the last moment and just didn't have the time to replace the word "boy". It's used to show just how ancient the Naaru are.

I'm withholding judgement on this plot device. I like the idea of Illidan leading the anti-demon army, but I'm less keen on the idea of an "Angel Illidan". If that happens literally I'm not sure how I'll feel, but if he just becomes the leader of the anti-demon army/armies then I'm fine with it.

[Caerule]

LOL, no way. You are way overstating the case here. You've now said he's as evil as MU Gul'dan, has less mercy than Deathwing, less respect than the Lich King (what does that even mean? lmao) and less compassion than Garrosh. Go ahead and pile some more hyperbole on, it's getting funny here, I mean it. "The ends justifies the means" is a definite failing of his but to he wasn't aware the f what he was doing or that he came to regret the fact that he had become cold to the carnage he caused would be flat-out incorrect.

Mercy, respect, compassion and such are tenants of the Church of Light. The kind of values and positive emotions that through spreading them, and through faith, grant you the blessed power of the Light. That's why I named them.

The end justify the means may be a justification where it comes to Illidan pursuing the death of Kil'Jaeden. A demon who he served twice, trying to destroy the Lich King, mind you. A demon that wants to kill him for his failures. Personal power, survival, and proving himself, have always been Illidan's main goals. Creating a new Well of Eternity. Absorbing the Skull of Gul'dan's power. Coming before Sargeras to seek understanding of the enemy's power. Doing missions for Kil'Jaeden. That's been for his own power and survival. Now he needs to destroy Kil'Jaeden, and sure; he has greater good reasons for wanting that done as well. But that doesn't make him in any way a good person. He's been an absolute monster to Outland to pursue the death of his personal foe. He's enslaved, corrupted, tortured and soul-destroyed many thousands. That doesn't make him an anti-hero. It makes him the same sort of villain as Sargeras who is out to prevent victory of the Void Lords. Just on an only slightly smaller scale in Illidan's case.

You can easily argue that Illidan is the lesser of great evils. But that doesn't make him in any way worthy as a Champion of the Light.

[Deleted]

You can easily argue that Illidan is the lesser of great evils. But that doesn't make him in any way worthy as a Champion of the Light.

/signed!

And until the day Blizzard learns about their own lore, they will fuck it up even more.

The Legion and the Old Gods were our foes for the longest time and could just stayed that. Now the Legion tries to prevent the victory of the void lords and the old gods are nothing but pawns...

Why not have the Legion invade us, we lose some battles but in the end we pull off a victory. The world is changed once again (they want to change leveling again, so that's one way of justifing it) more battle torn then ever, demons are still left behind. And the Old God N'zoth is still lurking while the other two cold come back any time. <- Better story then everything after cataclysm

[Wildmoon]

Blizzard needs to take a serious look at their story team. Let other people take charge rather than Metzen or Kosak. Not only they didn't learn their lessons but they are convinced that they are doing it right.

[steelballfc]

i'll ask you one little thing: would you rather have med'an instead of illidan?? yeah, thats what i think

Maybe Illidan would sacrifice him self to give more power to Me'dan

- - - Updated - - -

anduin's prophecy was vs the legion
in the book Illidan prophecy was vs the void lords.

Anduin prophecy was against the great dark
didn't specify Legion or void

- - - Updated - - -

Why is this a shocker? Anyone who's read Illidan, knew that this was a fact.

some men just want Illidan as he was

[Video Games]

Why are you crying?

thingken of dumb lore

[steelballfc]

Azeroth is dark and ful or terrors. Only the Lord of Light can save us now........Illidan is the Stallion Who Will Mount The World!!!

no one will mount me
NO ONE

[Justpassing]

It does oddly feel that this destiny and what it brings was meant and originally planned for Anduin, but they decided to shoehorn Illidan in at last second instead for fanservice. I mean come on, an Illidan expansion! Who wouldn't come back to a dying Warcraft for that?

Also is it just me or this saviour theme woulda fit Arthas like a glove? Sure, Illidan is a good anti-hero but in Arthas' words; who wouldn't like to see the humanity's most wayward son redeemed? Sure he was an asshole but Arthas meant well, regardless where he ended up at: The road to hell is paved with good intentions, afterall.

[Asotcha]

Because that will be a shitty Story that insults the intelligence of every player. And why Illidan is called a boy? That all sounds like a cheap Harry Potter Rip-Off. Illidan is a fucking 10.000 years old adult man.

Not to a creature that is so very old. Varian is an adult man by human standards but compared to Velen and most of the elves he was basically born yesterday.

[steelballfc]

Because even if he is that old, that Naaru is maybe four times that?

Naaru is 5 times that

- - - Updated - - -

I feel like they originally meant for Anduin to fill this role but they just shoehorned Illidan in for sales. Isn't that what they did in cata but instead of illidan and anduin it was thrall and Med'an?

don't speak about who we don't say his name

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard needs to take a serious look at their story team. Let other people take charge rather than Metzen or Kosak. Not only they didn't learn their lessons but they are convinced that they are doing it right.

where do I apply for this job

[Asotcha]

So despite learning about this in the Illidan Novel, you decided to wait for this react to it???
I personally find it awesome. Illidan is a sad anti-hero who is a been through more than enough. Him being the "chosen one" makes sense!

I agree! For all the bullshit that that guy has been through and subjected himself to, he really deserves this--he's earned it on a deep level. I can't wait to see it all turn out well for him for once.

And I realize its not something they're going to revamp everything else especially a fresh class for, but I'd love if they added a third spec for demon hunters after this story development runs its course--the 'lightforged' or something like that.

[Anastacy]

"Boy" works on two levels.

Illidan is young compared to Xe'ra and he has not yet matured into the being he will become.

Not to be taken as defending the storyline, though.

[Justpassing]

And come on guys, let go of the "metzen & kosak should be fired" fantasy. It won't happen. It would be admitting defeat in Blizzard's part, and even with ancient necromancy if they raise Tolkien from the grave and put him in charge, people would never let Blizzard hear the end of it - and Blizzard knows this. Just let it go.

[Asotcha]

That's kind of a let down..

Out of context, it probably seems kind of weak, but If you haven't I really suggest you read the Illidan book. It tells a visceral tale of how the demon hunters are trained, all the study and hard work and careful planning he puts into all these moves he makes and how it affects his character. This is revealed in such a way that by the end of the book he's questioning it himself especially since during the Black Temple seige there are naaru outside the walls with the opposing army.

Its not something thats tossed in there like the hfc cinematic--its something the character earns (yet doesn't ever expect) and he meets the naaru in the middle of the greatest risk of his lifes work--a breath away from complete disaster.

[steelballfc]

"Boy" works on two levels.

Illidan is young compared to Xe'ra and he has not yet matured into the being he will become.

Not to be taken as defending the storyline, though.

how he is not matured after Maive kept ****** him for 10000 years

[Deleted]

Whoa, I came in to make a positive, considerate argument as to why I have no issues with this direction, but I read comments calling me a moron preemptively before I even open my mouth.

No wonder you people are angry all the time, with all that negativity. As I am no longer interested in this discussion around all the negativity and name calling, all I can offer you is an advice that simplifies things to you:

Things happened, and they won't change for this particular arc. Now, you either try to move on, find positives, see positives, etc.. I don't care; it's your life, or you show Blizzard by stopping to be a fan and move on to something better. It must have been quite a life you lead if you want to go on while being crapped on, according to some, like Blizzard is doing things just to piss you off on purpose.

The amount of people commenting "Blizzard's writing" is hilarious and invalidating the whole point since none of you is going to quit in the end, which you actually should if you really aren't enjoying in my opinion. I am welling to bet that the amount of people who are quitting over this are merely 1% of the ones actually making tantrums and calling names.

[steelballfc]

Whoa, I came in to make a positive, considerate argument as to why I have no issues with this direction, but I read comments calling me a moron preemptively before I even open my mouth.

No wonder you people are angry all the time, with all that negativity. As I am no longer interested in this discussion around all the negativity and name calling, all I can offer you is an advice that simplifies things to you:

Things happened, and they won't change for this particular arc. Now, you either try to move on, find positives, see positives, etc.. I don't care; it's your life, or you show Blizzard by stopping to be a fan and move on to something better. It must have been quite a life you lead if you want to go on while being crapped on, according to some, like Blizzard is doing things just to piss you off on purpose.

The amount of people commenting "Blizzard's writing" is hilarious and invalidating the whole point since none of you is going to quit in the end, which you actually should if you really aren't enjoying in my opinion. I am welling to bet that the amount of people who are quitting over this are merely 1% of the ones actually making tantrums and calling names.

"ahem ahem" sir first of all you are writing and no one can shut your mouth
- 2nd a lot of people has invest so many time in this game, so quitting is not fun at all, even less fun than spreading negative energy on all forum threads
- 3rd you have to deal with the fact there are many people who would like or dislike anything made by blizzard we are talking about nearly 100 million people have played the game over the years, so deal with it and move on.
- 4th and last, try not to take it upon your self and enjoy sharing your negative energy with us all

[Deleted]

Whoa, I came in to make a positive, considerate argument as to why I have no issues with this direction, but I read comments calling me a moron preemptively before I even open my mouth.

No wonder you people are angry all the time, with all that negativity. As I am no longer interested in this discussion around all the negativity and name calling, all I can offer you is an advice that simplifies things to you:

Things happened, and they won't change for this particular arc. Now, you either try to move on, find positives, see positives, etc.. I don't care; it's your life, or you show Blizzard by stopping to be a fan and move on to something better. It must have been quite a life you lead if you want to go on while being crapped on, according to some, like Blizzard is doing things just to piss you off on purpose.

The amount of people commenting "Blizzard's writing" is hilarious and invalidating the whole point since none of you is going to quit in the end, which you actually should if you really aren't enjoying in my opinion. I am welling to bet that the amount of people who are quitting over this are merely 1% of the ones actually making tantrums and calling names.

The bold part is where you lost me. If people don't like something they have the right to be vocal about it. If we were only allowed to shut up or see the positive in everything, people would still strive for communism in the world! Because the idea behind it is positive and about the negative parts we had to shut up.

[Kryos]

Light is arcane. Shadow is..well void. But when you mix light and shadow, sometimes fel is created.

Nope it's one of the 6 basic pillars of the World of Warcraft, not a mix:


So a child of Light and Shadow is a child of reality - we (the heros we play) are an equal mixture of these 6 pillars. That's why we can have Holy paladins, Shadow Priests, Necromantic deathknights, Nature Druids, Arcane Mages and Fel Warlocks.