In the House of Light and Shadow (Xe'ra's Revelation Event)

[Deleted]

Why wouldn't the homeworld of Archimonde and Kil'jaeden be the Burning Legion's home base?

If it isn't their home base, then it would be an extremely important stronghold, at the very least.

As I said, the same way Nathreza was the home of the Nathrezim.

[KrazyK923]

Second, whoa whoa whoa on being "pissed" about Anduin just yet. We have no clue about Blizzard's plans for him at this point. I re-read Velen's story recently as well and I may be wrong here and I don't remember it tagging Anduin explicitly as the absolute leader of the entire army, just as Illidan isn't being tagged with that either. Both were prophesied to be great champions and Illidan is being said to be the one to end the age of the demons. This last thing is hardly something that should make any fan angry, IMO.

You are correct, however I will point out that up until the Illidan novel, the entirety of the "Army of the Light" concept has been incredibly vague. But about a topic as vague as this whole nonsense of "The Army of the Light" and the "Final War" and all this nonsense, Velen looking at Anduin and seeing a "Hero in gleaming armor, leading not just the Horde and Alliance, but Dragons and Naaru as well against the Burning Legion" is pretty clear to me.

I suppose Illidan could have some heroic sacrifice, but the vision Illidan then receives of him leading an Army that is described as very similar, it's a bit hard to not think they exchanged Illidan for Anduin after they decided to give Illidan more story with Legion's creation.

Although I will point out that I tend to exaggerate my anger slightly when I'm recording. It's not like I turned off the video and spent the rest of the night angry :P

I'm more than open to being wrong on this topic and it being something else. I'm still not happy overall that Illidan is getting some weird redemption arc that seems really hamfisted. His redemption should just be him as the leader of the Demon Hunters getting shit done, not being a chosen one of the Light that they randomly just decided to invent.

[Enthralled]

As I said, the same way Nathreza was the home of the Nathrezim.

Nathreza was very important, but Argus would be far more important simply because of the fact that so many Legion top strategic planners were in residence there.

[Raetary]

off topic: that's you krazyk? damn, you sound way younger and not so grumpy like i imagine you when i read your posts lol. sorry.

on topic: i completely agree with you on illidan, they completely butchered him.

the only thing i didnt like about the vid was that bit of kinda overreacting at the end.
but enough of that.

thanks for the vid, nice to see the questline and the part with elune and the naaru.

[KrazyK923]

off topic: that's you krazyk? damn, you sound way younger and not so grumpy like i imagine you when i read your posts lol. sorry.

It's amazing what hearing real voices can do to your perception :P

[Deleted]

Nathreza was very important, but Argus would be far more important simply because of the fact that so many Legion top strategic planners were in residence there.

And they can easily move out and destroy the entire planet with the Army of Light there. It's just bad world building having an infinite immortal demonic Legion, with their own dimension that ignores the concept of time, and then having all their eggs just in one single planet.

[Leyre]

It was already revealed in the novel Illidan that he was the key to defeating Sargeras and the Burning Legion. I am guessing you did not read it?

Are we talking about the same Illidan who almost shat his pants when he saw Kill'Jaeden in Hellfire Peninsula????

[Deleted]

Are we talking about the same Illidan who almost shat his pants when he saw Kill'Jaeden in Hellfire Peninsula????

Because he wasn't prepared at that time.

[KrazyK923]

And they can easily move out and destroy the entire planet with the Army of Light there. It's just bad world building having an infinite immortal demonic Legion, with their own dimension that ignores the concept of time, and then having all their eggs just in one single planet.

I think you're forgetting that if Nathreza counted as enough "in the Nether" to perma kill all the Dreadlords there, Argus most certainly does. I believe they even say as much, although I can't recall that 100%. If they destroy KJ or Archimonde or even some of the lesser higher ups there, that will permanently kill them.

I don't like the Illidan angle but the Army of the Light attacking Argus is actually pretty smart.

[Enthralled]

You are correct, however I will point out that up until the Illidan novel, the entirety of the "Army of the Light" concept has been incredibly vague. But about a topic as vague as this whole nonsense of "The Army of the Light" and the "Final War" and all this nonsense, Velen looking at Anduin and seeing a "Hero in gleaming armor, leading not just the Horde and Alliance, but Dragons and Naaru as well against the Burning Legion" is pretty clear to me.

Yeah and I mean that may well come true. But remember the end of that vision showed them heading into the Void, not a big bunch of demons -- and Anduin has just been passed the mantle of leadership. So he's going to be given some more character development here. you know how Blizzard will sit on plot lines for a bit before suddenly digging them back up.

I suppose Illidan could have some heroic sacrifice, but the vision Illidan then receives of him leading an Army that is described as very similar, it's a bit hard to not think they exchanged Illidan for Anduin after they decided to give Illidan more story with Legion's creation.

I just wouldn't assume that. It sounds like we're all going to be in this army in the end. I mean, you got the same forehead mark as Illidan did from Xe'ra, right?

Although I will point out that I tend to exaggerate my anger slightly when I'm recording. It's not like I turned off the video and spent the rest of the night angry :P

It's cool, it's what makes a better content creator. I tried making a few YouTube videos once and I couldn't help but sound all timid, no matter how hard I tried.

[Deleted]

I think you're forgetting that if Nathreza counted as enough "in the Nether" to perma kill all the Dreadlords there, Argus most certainly does. I believe they even say as much, although I can't recall that 100%. If they destroy KJ or Archimonde or even some of the lesser higher ups there, that will permanently kill them.

I don't like the Illidan angle but the Army of the Light attacking Argus is actually pretty smart.

It's the fact that is smart that I don't want to believe that the Legion, the guys that manipulated the fall of millions of worlds, are that dumb.

[Enthralled]

It's the fact that is smart that I don't want to believe that the Legion, the guys that manipulated the fall of millions of worlds, are that dumb.

In the book it is explained, credibly, that the Legion is not used to anyone ever bringing the fight to them. It's how Illidan and his little troop of demon hunters were able to waltz into the capitol city of Nathreza, steal the Seal of Argus, and then make it back out with a parting gift.

[Zoldor]

I have a couple thoughts and hopefully we can discuss, I might be giving way too much credit to Blizzard writers:

1. I agree Elune is not a Naruu, but I don't think Elune existed BEFORE the the ordering, but came in too existence at the beginning of the ordering. Ordering being similar to the big bang in that it happens quickly, but a lot occurs in that instant and time framing can be tough. I feel, hate those statements, that Elune would be the opposite of the Void Lords and that Void Lords are not the opposites to say Titans (Dark Titan/Fallen Titan opposite) or Naruu (Old God Opposite).

OR Elune exists like the Void Lords outside of reality. That or there is another being we've been yet introduced to that would be Elune's opposite and the creator of Void Lords. It really boils down to who the Void Lords opposite as blizzard loves the Yin/Yang, opposites, dualism stuff. This could be meaningless, but I've been thinking about it quit a bit.

2. This is something else I've been toying with since hearing of Illidan's place. He's reffered to in the cut scene as "The boy destined to end the age of demons" and not the leader of the Army of the Light or the One chosen to lead the army of the light. There is still room for Anduin to lead the Army of the light, as it makes more sense as Illidian isn't really a peacemaker or the person who gets sides to agree to band together. Illidian could still be the one who ends the age of demons, but not be the leader of the Army of the Light.

He could just be the one who turns the tide, the ultimate weapon, the one who has to sacrifice himself (I see this being it as blizz loves the sacrifice redemption story...ie see Grom). Sort of like the Thrall/Grom relationship, but it would be Anduin/Illidan. Thrall brought the Horde together and to greatness, while Grom ended the blood curse by sacrifice and killing Manno. Could be similar and then both futures forseen would still hold true. I found it interesting that Illidan is yet to be refereed to as a leader, the leader or anything like that, but instead refereed to as the one who brings about the end of the age of demons. Maybe he lets us in on a secret or teaches the Army something, or is the only one, somehow, who can actually kill Sargears (which to me is asinine based on what we know about Titans).

3. Is there more to this cut scene we don't see that they held back for lore possibilities? It feels like it ends a little abruptly.

I like my theory about Anduin and Illidan and I'd like to hear if others think its possible, plausible, or if I might be giving too much credit to Blizzard writers. But the way Anduin is setup he's more leader, guy who brings folks together, etc and Illidan is more like your secret weapon or Ace general. To pull from 40k Horus and Abbadon or something like that.

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You are correct, however I will point out that up until the Illidan novel, the entirety of the "Army of the Light" concept has been incredibly vague. But about a topic as vague as this whole nonsense of "The Army of the Light" and the "Final War" and all this nonsense, Velen looking at Anduin and seeing a "Hero in gleaming armor, leading not just the Horde and Alliance, but Dragons and Naaru as well against the Burning Legion" is pretty clear to me.

I suppose Illidan could have some heroic sacrifice, but the vision Illidan then receives of him leading an Army that is described as very similar, it's a bit hard to not think they exchanged Illidan for Anduin after they decided to give Illidan more story with Legion's creation.

Although I will point out that I tend to exaggerate my anger slightly when I'm recording. It's not like I turned off the video and spent the rest of the night angry :P

I'm more than open to being wrong on this topic and it being something else. I'm still not happy overall that Illidan is getting some weird redemption arc that seems really hamfisted. His redemption should just be him as the leader of the Demon Hunters getting shit done, not being a chosen one of the Light that they randomly just decided to invent.

Damn so Illidan had the same vision. Shit, I haven't had a chance to read Illidan yet.

[Aurabolt]

...I'm pretty sure The Multiverse Concept was established a while back. It was reinforced in WoD to boot, which folks seem to want to ignore. LOL.

Why wouldn't the homeworld of Archimonde and Kil'jaeden be the Burning Legion's home base?

If it isn't their home base, then it would be an extremely important stronghold, at the very least.

Let's flip the question: Why WOULD Argus be the Legion's "main base"? Before the Legion paid Argus a visit, it was already obscenely powerful. Gaining 2/3 of the Eredar made the Legion exponentially more powerful than they already were. Sarge also prettymuch said "You can join The Legion or I can nuke your planet." The Legion absorbs races Sargeras deems useful and nukes the rest.

...Is Argus important to the Legion? Yes but nowhere near as important to the Draenei. Kil'Jaeden would blow up his own homeworld if ordered to more or less. As a few people said, I suspect Argus wasn't destroyed on purpose knowing Velen would one day willingly return. Turns out his son being sent to kill him and then dying was the trigger.

I think we also have confirmation the next expansion takes us to Argus. Pretty early confirmation compared to MoP to WoD but yeah.

[Adramalech]

I think you're forgetting that if Nathreza counted as enough "in the Nether" to perma kill all the Dreadlords there, Argus most certainly does. I believe they even say as much, although I can't recall that 100%. If they destroy KJ or Archimonde or even some of the lesser higher ups there, that will permanently kill them.

I don't like the Illidan angle but the Army of the Light attacking Argus is actually pretty smart.

I'm pretty sure Illidan's plan was assassinating Archimonde and Kil'jaeden on Argus precisely because it'd kill them permanently. So yes, you would be correct.

[RedGamer030]

Are we talking about the same Illidan who almost shat his pants when he saw Kill'Jaeden in Hellfire Peninsula????

Someone knows Illidan's beginning lore, but not the middle... >.>

[Deleted]

I am still in the camp that says neither Illidan nor Anduin is the Leader, but both are members in it, alongside others.

Think of it like the Justice League, if that makes it easier for you, with the main heroes as the leading members.

Potential members? Let's see...

Illidan
Anduin
Thrall (face it; we know he will)
Jaina (if she didn't turn into a boss)
Wrathion (lol)

[Aurabolt]

You are correct, however I will point out that up until the Illidan novel, the entirety of the "Army of the Light" concept has been incredibly vague. But about a topic as vague as this whole nonsense of "The Army of the Light" and the "Final War" and all this nonsense, Velen looking at Anduin and seeing a "Hero in gleaming armor, leading not just the Horde and Alliance, but Dragons and Naaru as well against the Burning Legion" is pretty clear to me.

I suppose Illidan could have some heroic sacrifice, but the vision Illidan then receives of him leading an Army that is described as very similar, it's a bit hard to not think they exchanged Illidan for Anduin after they decided to give Illidan more story with Legion's creation.

Although I will point out that I tend to exaggerate my anger slightly when I'm recording. It's not like I turned off the video and spent the rest of the night angry :P

I'm more than open to being wrong on this topic and it being something else. I'm still not happy overall that Illidan is getting some weird redemption arc that seems really hamfisted. His redemption should just be him as the leader of the Demon Hunters getting shit done, not being a chosen one of the Light that they randomly just decided to invent.

I don't think it's necessarily a retcon. In fact, I think Illidan's "new destiny" and Anduin's foretold destiny are actually two different things. For all we know, both visions refer to the same outcome but each of them has their role to play. I also think this will be made more clear at the end of Legion when the next expansion is set up. That said, I expect it to end like WoD: With a cliffhanger. Difference is this time we'll have a pretty good idea of what immediately follows.

[Enthralled]

Damn so Illidan had the same vision. Shit, I haven't had a chance to read Illidan yet.

No. Illidan's is different. Kind of similar in that he meets the same naaru, but there are fundamental differences in that the naaru watches him sneak around Argus on a couple of occasions, actually saves his ass once, and when it finally talks to him, actually does so on the surface of the planet. And the conversation is quite different.

I agree Elune is not a Naruu, but I don't think Elune existed BEFORE the the ordering, but came in too existence at the beginning of the ordering. Ordering being similar to the big bang in that it happens quickly, but a lot occurs in that instant and time framing can be tough. I feel, hate those statements, that Elune would be the opposite of the Void Lords and that Void Lords are not the opposites to say Titans (Dark Titan/Fallen Titan opposite) or Naruu (Old God Opposite).

OR Elune exists like the Void Lords outside of reality. That or there is another being we've been yet introduced to that would be Elune's opposite and the creator of Void Lords. It really boils down to who the Void Lords opposite as blizzard loves the Yin/Yang, opposites, dualism stuff. This could be meaningless, but I've been thinking about it quit a bit.

This train of thought occurred to me too, that is if you are thinking of Elune as a kind of "Light Lord" (or Lady, whatever, if such beings have gender.)
How she zoned in on a tiny tribe of primitive nocturnal humanoids on Azeroth to be the ones to nourish and strengthen will surely be an interesting tale to uncover, if Blizzard ever decides to reveal it.

[Zoldor]

I am still in the camp that says neither Illidan nor Anduin is the Leader, but both are members in it, alongside others.

Think of it like the Justice League, if that makes it easier for you, with the main heroes as the leading members.

Potential members? Let's see...

Illidan
Anduin
Thrall (face it; we know he will)
Jaina (if she didn't turn into a boss)
Wrathion (lol)

Since I don't have beta...BOOOOO HISS....is Wrathion around much so far in Legion? Anyone got an answer to that?

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No. Illidan's is different. Kind of similar in that he meets the same naaru, but there are fundamental differences in that the naaru watches him sneak around Argus on a couple of occasions, actually saves his ass once, and when it finally talks to him, actually does so on the surface of the planet. And the conversation is quite different.



This train of thought occurred to me too, that is if you are thinking of Elune as a kind of "Light Lord" (or Lady, whatever, if such beings have gender.)
How she zoned in on a tiny tribe of primitive nocturnal humanoids on Azeroth to be the ones to nourish and strengthen will surely be an interesting tale to uncover, if Blizzard ever decides to reveal it.

Good so my theory isn't total dogshit then. I just can't get behind him being the leader of the army of the light seeing as the guy has never shown any ability to be diplomatic.

I'm really trying to figure out Elune's place. Same thought, if Elune is like a Void Lord, they take immense power to manifest in reality, then how did Elune get here unless she stole some dying Titan power? Or something or maybe fed on Azeroth to do so. Elune is an odd character all together in figuring out her? spot. Beyond being "god" in the traditional sense. She did actually manifest to some folks on Azeroth at some point correct?

Again, this also fuels my theory that Azeroth being the most powerful Titan isn't because its going to wake up and walk around like the others, but that the beings upon it and drawn to it are the most powerful in creation and can stop the legion together. Corny I know.