[huge spoiler] legion issue

[Mace]

No, I have read all spoiler about the book and it's still cheesy and crigeworthy.

you might feel better about it if you read the whole book first, it provides much better context. Anyway I like it. It isn't that cheeesy, and i don't think it's cringeworhty.

[Zeek Daniels]

Illidan does indeed have a history of ruining everything he touches, so maybe he'll ruin his own redemption arc.

No redemption need. You people act like just because he is the "champion of the light" that he can do no evil or chaotic good. Im pretty sure there have been some evil paladins and priests in the lore who were trained in the light. Arthas is a big one that comes to mind.

[Mace]

That's pretty much what I meant. There are a few hard-asses whose minds won't be changed no matter what. IMO those folks aren't worth spending the time arguing with directly as they aren't up for a discussion. All they have to say is "No".

yeah, sadly sometimes getting information out of context can give you the wrong impression and colour your view, but if you then choose to hate it regardless, i think you do yourself an injustice, I always leave an open mind, even on things I've read in full context. Sometimes I didn't like it first but I do later, other times future developments change my mind.

Especially when it comes to things like this.. i.e. game canon, nothing real about it, I try not to get too attached. I sometimes fail though, so I don't judge those who do.

[Deleted]

Illidan being a chosen hero of Light and Shadow isn't the problem. The problem is people expect him to get a new Holy model and his personality will change to the boring good guy with no character, like Anduin. I would have a problem with that as well.

But if Illidan keeps his own personality and only gets a minor model tweak then none of this deserves all the hate it gets. It would still be the Illidan we know and love, but he'd just gain the ability to use a wider range of spells, namely Holy.

[Enthralled]

No redemption need. You people act like just because he is the "champion of the light" that he can do no evil or chaotic good.

Excuse me, lolwat? Have you been keeping up with these threads at all? The whole point of discussion for most people (me, certainly) is the hope that Blizzard keeps his imperfections of character while pulling off this big story arc they have planned. And yes it is a redemption arc for the purposes of discussion, simply because in BC he was presented by Blizzard as a villain and a raid boss.

I have faith that they can do it, others do not. Please don't make sweeping generalizations about everyone saying that this character can "do no wrong." One of the best things about him is that he's willing to be the bad guy for the sake of the good.

[Daralii]

Illidan being a chosen hero of Light and Shadow isn't the problem. The problem is people expect him to get a new Holy model and his personality will change to the boring good guy with no character, like Anduin. I would have a problem with that as well.

But if Illidan keeps his own personality and only gets a minor model tweak then none of this deserves all the hate it gets. It would still be the Illidan we know and love, but he'd just gain the ability to use a wider range of spells, namely Holy.

The book had Xe'ra giving him a vision of turning into a literal angel.

[Deleted]

Not really. We dont know if it will rob him of those abilities or amplify them. Also i dont think fel energy is the oposite of the light. Void energy seems to be what they are going with. Dont think Void and Fel are the same, else shadow priests and warlocks got some splaning to do.

Okay so in WoW lore we have the pairs:

light - void
fel - arcane
usw

So now Arcane Mages are better "demon hunters" then Paladins were originally. Okay, but then we have Micky Neilson who stated that fel is "divine" and there for could be the "dark equivalent to the power afforded by the Light". Which would mean that being purified by the light would get rid of all fel power...
Man with these Void Lords so much rpg standards got shafted...

[CaptainV]

I still say that Illidan plot twist is increadably painful to read, seriously, lets just recycle SC2.

[Captnrex]

Yeah so Illidan will loose his demon hunter abilites? Great robbing the new class of their leader, prototype and master.

"spoiler"

when the naaru in the book beamed him with the light he didn't feel the normal pain but the 2 powers inside him equalized basically. But he is still fel atm

- - - Updated - - -

Excuse me, lolwat? Have you been keeping up with these threads at all? The whole point of discussion for most people (me, certainly) is the hope that Blizzard keeps his imperfections of character while pulling off this big story arc they have planned. And yes it is a redemption arc for the purposes of discussion, simply because in BC he was presented by Blizzard as a villain and a raid boss.

I have faith that they can do it, others do not. Please don't make sweeping generalizations about everyone saying that this character can "do no wrong." One of the best things about him is that he's willing to be the bad guy for the sake of the good.

but its not really a redemption story cause he doesn't really have to redeem anything, as in the end everything hes done would have been for the greater good.

killing lich king
lock the legion out of outlands (kalthelas was a traitor after the first meeting with kiljaden)
stole the major powerful skull of guldan and used it against them
etc etc

[Enthralled]

"spoiler"

when the naaru in the book beamed him with the light he didn't feel the normal pain but the 2 powers inside him equalized basically. But he is still fel atm

- - - Updated - - -



but its not really a redemption story cause he doesn't really have to redeem anything, as in the end everything hes done would have been for the greater good.

killing lich king
lock the legion out of outlands (kalthelas was a traitor after the first meeting with kiljaden)
stole the major powerful skull of guldan and used it against them
etc etc

Let me try this again.

Blizzard is referring to it as a redemption arc for writing purposes. It is a technical term and nothing more.

[Captnrex]

Let me try this again.

Blizzard is referring to it as a redemption arc for writing purposes. It is a technical term and nothing more.

Oh I know they love using that word a lot lol, I just know people that either hate him or the idea he isn't evil. Didn't really man to make it sound like I was directing it at you lol.

[procne]

it was only cheesy to people who looked at leaked information without reading the book to get the full context.

It would be nice if Blizzard could present some nice story in game without it being cheesy if you hadn't read some book

[Zeek Daniels]

Excuse me, lolwat? Have you been keeping up with these threads at all? The whole point of discussion for most people (me, certainly) is the hope that Blizzard keeps his imperfections of character while pulling off this big story arc they have planned. And yes it is a redemption arc for the purposes of discussion, simply because in BC he was presented by Blizzard as a villain and a raid boss.

I have faith that they can do it, others do not. Please don't make sweeping generalizations about everyone saying that this character can "do no wrong." One of the best things about him is that he's willing to be the bad guy for the sake of the good.

You and I interpreted BC completely different. IMO Azeroths forces screwed the fuck up because of their own greed for outlands resources. You dont need the new lore to tell you Illidan got screwed over and didnt do anything to warrant us attacking his forces, It was all Kel thalas and kil jeaden.

Also i never said illdian can do no wrong. Hes done plenty wrong depending on your point of view. But hes always done it for two reasons. Gain more power for himself, and to save the people he loves.

I dont think this is a redemption arc, Arthas needs a redemption arc. He did messed up shit killing millions of people because hes sick and twisted. Illidan doesnt need a redemption arc and i dont see this as that. I see this as illidan yet again gaining more power for himself although not in a place he would normally seek it to defeat the enemy hes been after four thousands of years.

No redemption, just closure.

[Kokolums]

I still say that Illidan plot twist is increadably painful to read, seriously, lets just recycle SC2.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So I guess it means Blizzard loves itself in the most sincere way.

[Mace]

It would be nice if Blizzard could present some nice story in game without it being cheesy if you hadn't read some book

yeah, it's been a long standing criticism, they do present quests quite well, given the difference between that and a story, and it's masterful in Legion, but you're going to need more SWTOR conversation scenes to powerfully convey a story. I think they're getting much better at it though.

There is a lot of mis-understanding of Illidan and of night elves too by players which will not help. Because most players don't engage in the story, and sadly for NElves, their WoW showing has been pretty lopsided - with almost no history presented and portrayal as largely a group of nature loving hippies - green peace activist types that hate magic like others hate technology. Ofc that is way off the mark and there is so much more to them that, but until Legion, you'd have to played WC3 and read the lore books because of how wow shows things.

We shall see if Legion will effectively set the record straight and provide the necessary background to help you understand and find believable/acceptable what's happened to Illidan. I know it does present night elves now as serious melee combatants in the demon hunters, and powerful arcane casters in the nightborne. But I'm also noticed that people who haven't played the Legion quests are currently viewing nightborne as not related to night elf, like some new entity of elf because they have different models rather than this is what original night elves are like, they've just had the added bonus of looking a bit different cos blizzard is doing a cool thing. However it is something I'm pretty sure the questing will fix when they actually experience the nightborne and night elves in the Broken Isles.

Currently without actually playing, much of the stuff is out of context.

[Deleted]

The book had Xe'ra giving him a vision of turning into a literal angel.

Book and game lore sometimes contradict eachother. Often the books are used a groundwork and a test of how the fanbase likes an idea.
As you can see in-game is that unlike being the Champion of Light, Illidan is now referred as the Champion of Light and Shadow. This is probably a result of the fanbase not liking Illidan becoming an actual angel (very much like Kerrigan in SC2).

I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard made a few minor changes to Illidan's story in-game compared to the book. I'm honestly not expecting an actual angel, but something of a demon/angel hybrid.

[procne]

You dont need the new lore to tell you Illidan got screwed over and didnt do anything to warrant us attacking his forces, It was all Kel thalas and kil jeaden.

didn't do anything? What about working for Kil'jeaden, continuing to turn otcs into fel orcs, housing Teron Gorefiend in Black Temple, stripping Outland of water sources to control the land, betraying Akama? No matter how you look, Illidan has much to answer for, no matter what his goals ultimately were

[Deleted]

didn't do anything? What about working for Kil'jeaden, continuing to turn otcs into fel orcs, housing Teron Gorefiend in Black Temple, stripping Outland of water sources to control the land, betraying Akama? No matter how you look, Illidan has much to answer for, no matter what his goals ultimately were

Yes, but what do Azerothians care for outland? It was a mostly dead wasteland to begin with. With the portal magiacally reopening, so we went in and thought: Hey, they could use some democracy in here... wait they got oil ähm epics? GET THEM BOYS!

[procne]

Yes, but what do Azerothians care for outland? It was a mostly dead wasteland to begin with. With the portal magiacally reopening, so we went in and thought: Hey, they could use some democracy in here... wait they got oil ähm epics? GET THEM BOYS!

Uhm, portal opened and demons started pouring into Azeroth. So Azerothians went in to remove this threat. Pretty much the same thing as in WoD

[Daralii]

Yes, but what do Azerothians care for outland? It was a mostly dead wasteland to begin with. With the portal magiacally reopening, so we went in and thought: Hey, they could use some democracy in here... wait they got oil ähm epics? GET THEM BOYS!

Pushing back the Legion after they reopened the Portal, reuniting with forces thought lost at the end of the Second War.

Illidan was willing to enslave the broken, tear Netherstorm apart to amass arcane power, and siphon the water from Zangarmarsh for... some reason, all to fight the Legion. Whether or not you think the ends justify the means is up to you.