[MARKSMANSHIP]Legion Alpha Discussion

[kaminaris]

We had this argument not so long ago.

First and foremost, you don't have barrett m82 or some other modern sniper rifle (BM gets a gun) but a bow and arrows. So your contr-argument is invalid.
Secondly even if you run with it, nothing stops you from pulling a trigger, if you are close enough you may even score a hit from hip.

Also nothing stops bowman from pulling string and aiming while running, you don't have a scope anyway. So older mastery was better in terms of "reality". You can still fire an arrow when moving, it just won't hit for so much. Not only that, it was also closer to reality where not only damage is lower while moving but also range becomes worse (since its harder to hit something while moving).

Modern sniping with rifle and sniping with a bow is something completely different:
https://youtu.be/BEG-ly9tQGk?t=177
https://youtu.be/BEG-ly9tQGk?t=255

[Cebel]

We had this argument not so long ago.

First and foremost, you don't have barrett m82 or some other modern sniper rifle (BM gets a gun) but a bow and arrows. So your contr-argument is invalid.
Secondly even if you run with it, nothing stops you from pulling a trigger, if you are close enough you may even score a hit from hip.

Also nothing stops bowman from pulling string and aiming while running, you don't have a scope anyway. So older mastery was better in terms of "reality". You can still fire an arrow when moving, it just won't hit for so much. Not only that, it was also closer to reality where not only damage is lower while moving but also range becomes worse (since its harder to hit something while moving).

Modern sniping with rifle and sniping with a bow is something completely different:
https://youtu.be/BEG-ly9tQGk?t=177
https://youtu.be/BEG-ly9tQGk?t=255

Clearly my point went right over your head. Regardless of weapon type, the entire point of a sniper is to take your time and take lethal shots at the most opportune time, hence the vulnerability system, hence the "long" cast time on AIMED ( key word there, its hard to aim properly while you're running and jumping ) shot.

You dont like the playstyle, sure, but to say the class fantasy is bad is just wrong.

[Donkeywing]

You dont like the playstyle, sure, but to say the class fantasy is bad is just wrong.

This ''sniper fantasy'' is objectively retarded. Invent another word for it or something. MM =/= Sniper. Anyone who thinks that it is should learn what an actual sniper is and what the word means. You can't bend the meaning of a word (to your own ideas) and still expect to make any sense.

[Cebel]

This ''sniper fantasy'' is objectively retarded. Invent another word for it or something. MM =/= Sniper. Anyone who thinks that it is should learn what an actual sniper is and what the word means. You can't bend the meaning of a word (to your own ideas) and still expect to make any sense.

marks·man:
a person skilled in shooting
synonyms: sniper, sharpshooter

Probably has something to do with it.

[Donkeywing]

You just don't know what a sniper is. There is nothing else to be said.

[kaminaris]

Which is still not a sniper, and could never be because:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...english/sniper
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sniper

someone who shoots at people from a place where they cannot be seen

to shoot at someone from a hidden place

While 40 yards is nowhere near "cannot be seen" nor hidden.
Of course replace "people" with broader term: enemies, targets.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...glish/marksman
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/marksman
Again replace gun with ranged weapon.

Long story short:
You can be half blind and be a sniper as long as you shoot at enemies from hidden place but that does not make you marksman.
You can be marksman without any fancy ranged weapon as long as you can shoot it accurately, and that does not make you sniper.
You can be both sniper and marksman IF you are shooting at enemies from hidden place using ranged weapon with high accuracy.

And no matter how I look at this, hunter is not a sniper, not even close.

Getting back to the point, i would even go with 50% chance to miss aimed shot while moving (closer to reality) but being able to cast it while moving and not just: ah-well-i-guess-i-need-to-make-one-step-so-im-gonna-hide-that-arrow-and-try-again-from-the-begining-when-i-stop.

[Cebel]

You just don't know what a sniper is. There is nothing else to be said.

yeah. Thats what it is.

*facepalm*

again... you not liking the gameplay has no bearing on whether the "class fantasy" is good or correct.

You're bitching about class fantasy when you should simply be bitching about class mechanics, and sadly every classes mechanics are shit cause celestalon is a clueless baboon.

[Donkeywing]

yeah. Thats what it is.

*facepalm*

again... you not liking the gameplay has no bearing on whether the "class fantasy" is good or correct.

You're bitching about class fantasy when you should simply be bitching about class mechanics, and sadly every classes mechanics are shit cause celestalon is a clueless baboon.

All you are capable of doing is putting words into ppls mouths. Second time you're saying that - you're getting really desperate. I never said anything about not liking gameplay, I just refuse to link this gameplay to an actual fucking sniper because I still have 2 feet on the ground and dont drift away like some senseless retard.

[Ilir]

Donkeywing you are stupid.

Aimed Shot was a non castable on the move before they decided to make hunter the most braindead class ever.

MM are the closest you get to Snipers. Please stop crying.

[Seefer]

We had this argument not so long ago.

First and foremost, you don't have barrett m82 or some other modern sniper rifle (BM gets a gun) but a bow and arrows. So your contr-argument is invalid.
Secondly even if you run with it, nothing stops you from pulling a trigger, if you are close enough you may even score a hit from hip.

Also nothing stops bowman from pulling string and aiming while running, you don't have a scope anyway. So older mastery was better in terms of "reality". You can still fire an arrow when moving, it just won't hit for so much. Not only that, it was also closer to reality where not only damage is lower while moving but also range becomes worse (since its harder to hit something while moving).

Modern sniping with rifle and sniping with a bow is something completely different:
https://youtu.be/BEG-ly9tQGk?t=177
https://youtu.be/BEG-ly9tQGk?t=255

Never shot a bow in your life have you? If you run around with a bow you are apt to miss 9 times out of 10, ever watch fantasy movies? Ever notice the archers are always standing in the back behind shields? Yeah, you may want to think about archery classes or try bow hunting.

- - - Updated - - -

All you are capable of doing is putting words into ppls mouths. Second time you're saying that - you're getting really desperate. I never said anything about not liking gameplay, I just refuse to link this gameplay to an actual fucking sniper because I still have 2 feet on the ground and dont drift away like some senseless retard.

It's called Marksman Hunter not sniper ffs.

[kaminaris]

If you run around with a bow you are apt to miss 9 times out of 10, ever watch fantasy movies?

You just proved my point. Its not wierd that someone without archery skills would miss often when running and shooting but I still CAN shoot.
Although you are suppose to play a "hero", something along the lines of Legolas. And as far as I remember he had no problems hitting with a bow on the move.


Obviously shooting while moving would result in loosing accuracy thus the older mastery was better. It might have been upgraded to also have a miss chance or as someone previously suggested stacking debuff.

[Cebel]

You just proved my point. Its not wierd that someone without archery skills would miss often when running and shooting but I still CAN shoot.
Although you are suppose to play a "hero", something along the lines of Legolas. And as far as I remember he had no problems hitting with a bow on the move.


Obviously shooting while moving would result in loosing accuracy thus the older mastery was better. It might have been upgraded to also have a miss chance or as someone previously suggested stacking debuff.

to be fair, i always thought of survivability as the "legolas" build, not a pure dedicated long range marksman, but more of an on the fly badass who does whats necessary. I really wish they wouldnt of just made it a melee spec, but something more like some of the scenes of legolas in that small room fighting the orcs and then the ogre... stabbing with his arrows at close range, etc.

But when I think of a marksman I think of those archers in the back. Letting others take the heat while they hit the sweet spot. Not to mention even in the scene you linked, he's not moving... the shield his, he's standing still on it, taking his time to get the perfect shot. He really doesnt shoot arrows a lot on the move, if he's on the move he's either chasing someone down to stab them with an arrow/knife or to get to a better position to snipe em.

Example: https://youtu.be/tMTYFeAbTEk?t=23s

If you watch him, he's usually standing still when he shoots.

[Sunfire]

You just proved my point. Its not wierd that someone without archery skills would miss often when running and shooting but I still CAN shoot.

I'm an archer in RL and no, it is absolutely impossible to shoot while running. At least in reality. You need to stand still to balance weight to draw the bow, without standing still you would probably fall over or couldn't draw the bow, at least not good enough to actually shoot farther than 10 feet or so.

Of course fantasy being fantasy different rules apply. But in RL it's pretty much impossible.

[Youn]

The one bug I have noticed with sidewinders is on stairs and slopes it sometimes bugs out and just hovers in place for 1 minute. This is pretty funny on an extended fight in which you have 5-6 sets of sidewinders buzzing off to the side.

[kaminaris]

it is absolutely impossible to shoot while running.

Question is what bow are you talking about? I saw that guy Lars (few posts earlier) taking shots while moving, rolling, jumping, and riding on a motorbike.
WoW hunter ain't using modern compound bow but a simple longbow.
Another thing is the speed of running. I don't expect you to draw a bow while moving like Usain Bolt.

[Bepples]

It's almost as if realism doesn't mean shit in a game that used to frequently send you mounts, including dragons, in the mail.

[Ifritlol]

Stop this realism bullshit already. Class suppose to feel great and smooth to play. And none of hunters specs provise that feeling. Nuf said.

How the fuck is it possible that they manage to design 21 Overwatch heroes which are all perfectly smooth and fun, but almost none in WoW. Now that is the question.

[DarkAviator]

You mean, that is where the original wow class developers are now? At least they have the map designer that did SW and OG iirc.
Would explain a lot. ;-)

[idunnowatdo]

I cant really comment on the rest but I just recently got beta and ive been leveling all I can say is aimed shot does not feel fun to press but who knows. marks seems fun so far

[ZealousBlade]

If your definition of "Fun" is barely better than our focus generator, then sure I guess...