Bring Back Combat Skills

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Yeah, no. lol.

I mean, it was kinda fun at level 15 on Darkshore to run around hitting bears with my staff just in case I ever needed to use it, but it got old for me and the bears. Those poor bears - what a slow demeaning death I inflicted!

[OreoLover]

It was not just a grind mechanic though.. I'm not asking Blizzard to add back a new reason to GRIND.\

Move past that and look at the REAL point. It added flavor and options to max level gameplay.

If you CHOSE to grind, that was your fault.

It added flavor, a flavor akin to sand when you're looking for salt.

It did not add options, it added a time sink or basis for restriction.

If you want flavor and options, suggest new and enticing ideas, not exact replicas of ideas that we are well past and have great reason to dislike. I'm sure you can come up with at least one way to make weapons an exciting feature besides transmog and another source of character stats.

[elderu]

I'm sorry that you disagree, but it was, in fact, a grind. Just because someone might choose to raise their skills passively over time doesn't mean it isn't a grind -- it just means that they didn't care enough to actively grind it out.

It didn't offer flavor or options, it restricted options. How do you not see this? And with everyone using artifacts in Legion, all such a change would do is... prevent you from switching specs without, *drum roll*, being forced to grind!

But, most importantly, it wasn't fun. That is reason enough for Blizzard to never bring it back.

I do see that. However, as you just said, it was only a restriction if people didn't care enough to actively grind it out. So thank you for proving my point.

The option right now is 1 option: You use the best weapon your entire class can use that drops for you. Combat Skills would STILL ALLOW for this, but make you work for it.

So then we have 2 options with them added back in. Option 1: Grind to have the privilege of using all of the weapons your class can use instead of having them handed to you on a silver platter. Option 2: Stick with one or two main specializations to build your skill in, and work harder and more socially to get the gear you need.
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Also, don't treat me like a child and assume I want this added back into LEGION... The expansion where weapon choice has NEVER BEEN MORE RESTRICTED. Obviously that's not what I want.

[Belloc]

I do see that. However, as you just said, it was only a restriction if people didn't care enough to actively grind it out. So thank you for proving my point.

That's a very liberal interpretation of my reply... You understand that if you don't go through the effort of maxing the skill, you're still restricted, right?

You should pay attention to the fact that no one in this thread supports your idea. You should think long and hard about why that might be. I understand all too well how easy it is to think you have an awesome idea, but you're being willfully blind to the legitimate feedback being provided to you here.

No one else wants this in the game because we remember how much it sucked. It's not coming back. Feel free to keep arguing the merits of it, but I suggest not addressing any of those comments to me, because you've made it clear that you're not interested in actually listening or understanding my reasons for why it's a bad idea, so I'm done contributing.

[elderu]

Yeah, no. lol.

I mean, it was kinda fun at level 15 on Darkshore to run around hitting bears with my staff just in case I ever needed to use it, but it got old for me and the bears. Those poor bears - what a slow demeaning death I inflicted!

Why did it get old for you?

but you're being willfully blind to the legitimate feedback being provided to you here.

because you've made it clear that you're not interested in actually listening or understanding my reasons for why it's a bad idea, so I'm done contributing.

Negative. Having a rebuttal to another's statement does not mean I'm not listening or understanding. It means I'm thinking over your opinion, and counter acting with my own. Which is how discussions work.. Which means I am absolutely listening and understanding.

[mysticx]

Although of course you're looking past the fact, that it is implied we fight stronger foes each expansion.. Meaning Blizzard would raise the Combat Skill level every expansion.. The exact same way Professions are.. Or even, the same way they used to.

So then I beg the question, why do you all despise this mechanic so much? Why do you think it was bad? Or meaningless?

It was utterly pointless busywork, just wailing on those near-unkillable mobs in blasted lands for a few hours, it added nothing to the game, you were just gimped if you didn't level weapon skill, there was no fun payoff when you finished levelling it, just... not sucking.

[elderu]

It was utterly pointless busywork, just wailing on those near-unkillable mobs in blasted lands for a few hours, it added nothing to the game, you were just gimped if you didn't level weapon skill, there was no fun payoff when you finished levelling it, just... not sucking.

So you didn't like having to work for something?

[Denkou]

No thank you.

Scenario: raider X, let's say a Ret Pally, has been using only 2H swords for the past who knows how long. Why only swords? Maybe because RNG sucks, and 2H swords are the only drops he's ever gotten. Raider's guild moves on to next raid tier, all of a sudden a 2H mace drops that's a huge upgrade in terms of stats over his old sword. The problem? His mace skill is 0. Now he has to spend hours grinding mobs to get that skill up; if he tries to raid, he'll miss 90% of his attacks. Raider gets a huge upgrade but is not even able to properly use it until days, possibly even a week after.

"But raider X should keep ALL his weapon skills at max rating all the time!". Yeah, no. Imagine having to level up all your weapon skills at the beginning of an expansion just because you don't know what weapon your first drop will be and you want to be prepared for all of them. Instead, you could be doing actual useful shit, like farming mats, running heroics, reading up on raid encounters. But nope, time to go hit mobs for a few hours with every type of weapon you can use just so you max all your weapon skills out.

People didn't care to actively grind it out because it was tedious and boring, and made the game less fun. It also gave melee classes a disadvantage over casters and healers, and even disadvantaged certain melee classes over others - i.e. a Warrior who has to grind out 3 weapon types because he doesn't know what his next drop will be, versus an Assassination Rogue who ONLY uses daggers. And don't even call it "working" for something. If you want to add challenges to the game, come up with a better idea that actually involves some thought and difficulty. Combat skills required time, that's it, nothing hard about it. Removing it was a huge quality of life improvement for the game.

[Deleted]

So you didn't like having to work for something?

Work? Go afk at a training dummy with autoattack enabled, come back with maxed weapon skill. Wow, such amazing game design!

The point that has been made again and again in this thread, is that weapon skills ultimately added nothing interesting to the game. It is on you to explain what interesting gameplay it added, since noone else seems to be able to see any.

Either you had it maxed, at which point it didn't matter and may as well have not existed in the first place, or you didn't, which meant afk-ing at some kind of mob that was harmless and wouldn't die from auto attacks (The quest mobs in Blasted Lands found a niche). It literally never added any kind of interesting gameplay.

[Fincayra]

Yes, doing really trivial things added "depth" to the game...

Plus you've forgotten that Hit and Expertise have been removed, rendering weapon skills pointless.

Good or bad, they definitely added depth. It's an RPG, not a "get to max level and get handed a ton of stuff for free"

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Why did it get old for you?

Because I was bludgeoning bears to death with a stick when I could have given them a clean death with an arrow to the heart. It was bad role play, poor class fantasy. It made no sense, other than trying to keep weapons leveled.

[elderu]

No thank you.

Scenario: raider X, let's say a Ret Pally, has been using only 2H swords for the past who knows how long. Why only swords? Maybe because RNG sucks, and 2H swords are the only drops he's ever gotten. Raider's guild moves on to next raid tier, all of a sudden a 2H mace drops that's a huge upgrade in terms of stats over his old sword. The problem? His mace skill is 0. Now he has to spend hours grinding mobs to get that skill up; if he tries to raid, he'll miss 90% of his attacks. Raider gets a huge upgrade but is not even able to properly use it until days, possibly even a week after.

"But raider X should keep ALL his weapon skills at max rating all the time!". Yeah, no. Imagine having to level up all your weapon skills at the beginning of an expansion just because you don't know what weapon your first drop will be and you want to be prepared for all of them. Instead, you could be doing actual useful shit, like farming mats, running heroics, reading up on raid encounters. But nope, time to go hit mobs for a few hours with every type of weapon you can use just so you max all your weapon skills out.

What if raider X just ran next week with his guild mates and the 2H Mace went to somebody who could use it?

Because no, raider X should not have to keep his weapon skills at max all of the time. That could be his choice, and it would be a damn awesome payoff for him, but it's not, and wouldn't be a requirement.

If raider X can run the raid successfully once with his current 2H Sword, he can do it again to get the 2H Sword that would be an upgrade.

Work? Go afk at a training dummy with autoattack enabled, come back with maxed weapon skill. Wow, such amazing game design!

Either you had it maxed, at which point it didn't matter and may as well have not existed in the first place, or you didn't, which meant afk-ing at some kind of mob that was harmless and wouldn't die from auto attacks

Of course, this was a flaw. Let's add a certain required level of mob to fight, the same way leveling experience works. And let's not have it work on training dummies. Problem solved.

[scrappybristol]

Hell no.

All weapon skills did was nerf your maximum damage potential until you went through the menial task of grinding them up.

Adding it back in would be adding nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia and not even good nostalgia.

Might as well ask to add back spell ranks.

[mysticx]

So you didn't like having to work for something?

I like having to work for something, but grinding weapon skill was that nasty combination of "not fun to do" and "No cool payoff", that's what made me happy to see it gone.

Levelling weapon skill consisted of either chain-soloing Deadmines a bunch of times or fighting those unkillable mobs in blasted lands (Did i say "fighting"?, i meant "Autoattacking and healing myself on occasion"), not very interesting.

And the payoff? My character didn't get anything new, just the "ability" to use one weapon type to do the exact same thing i already could do with another, nothing to feel satisfied about getting.

"Not satisfying to finish" + "Not very interesting to do" = bad gameplay

[Deleted]

Hell no.

All weapon skills did was nerf your maximum damage potential until you went through the menial task of grinding them up.

Adding it back in would be adding nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia and not even good nostalgia.

Might as well ask to add back spell ranks.

At least spell ranks had a meaningful gameplay element to them. You could choose to use lower spell ranks for lower mana cost or faster cast speed. Weapon skills had no way you could interact with them. Meaning, either you had them, or you didn't. The end. Nothing interesting whatsoever.

- - - Updated - - -

"Not satisfying to finish" + "Not very interesting to do" = bad gameplay

Exactly this. If you want something in the game, you better be sure that it actually has a purpose. Weapon skills simply didn't add anything positive to the game, ever.

[elderu]

Levelling weapon skill consisted of either chain-soloing Deadmines a bunch of times or fighting those unkillable mobs in blasted lands (Did i say "fighting"?, i meant "Autoattacking and healing myself on occasion"), not very interesting.

And the payoff? My character didn't get anything new, just the "ability" to use one weapon type to do the exact same thing i already could do with another, nothing to feel satisfied about getting.

This is where I can agree. The payoff could be filled in a bit more. Perhaps rewards of a sort. However, it was satisfying to know you wouldn't miss out on any weapon drops you couldn't use before, but could now if it happens again.

And I'll refer you to my last post there for the top part of your quote.

Adding it back in would be adding nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia and not even good nostalgia.

Might as well ask to add back spell ranks.

I assure you this has nothing to do with nostalgia.

However, I agree. Blizzard should also bring back spell ranks, but in a different way, and not -as- much as a gold sink for low levels.

[Deleted]

However, it was satisfying to know you wouldn't miss out on any weapon drops you couldn't use before, but could now if it happens again.

Nono, it just sucked when you couldn't, and you knew you had a lot of meaningless grinding ahead of you. Most people never felt "amazed" that they could now use the weapon their class can use, and the ones who did are utter morons anyway.

[Foj]

Weapon skill might make some kind of sense in an RPG, but the way it was implemented ... I mean ... running around stabbing boars with a dagger ...

No, just no.

[Denkou]

What if raider X just ran next week with his guild mates and the 2H Mace went to somebody who could use it?

Because no, raider X should not have to keep his weapon skills at max all of the time. That could be his choice, and it would be a damn awesome payoff for him, but it's not, and wouldn't be a requirement.

If raider X can run the raid successfully once with his current 2H Sword, he can do it again to get the 2H Sword that would be an upgrade.

Ever heard of RNG? That mace might not drop again for a long time. The other melee DPS in the group might be 1H users, and the mace would go to waste.

I'm all for adding new challenges into the game but this is not the way to do it.

[scrappybristol]

Either way, weapon skills and spell ranks are things of the past.

Blizzard will never reimplement them because there is no reason to.