Believe in biology? Canada will jail you for 2+ years 4 transphobia

[Gulharum]

Actually, I agree with them.

I don't really get all of this new Trans stuff, but ... What right do you have to be a total asshat to someone who wants to pursue their life in a different manner?

So you think it's right for a government to jail people because they were talking trash about others? Doing so is wasting tax money on prisoners who did nothing but talk shit. THAT is irrational and an abuse of power. And would you say then, that it is wrong to openly judge anyone, regardless of how deplorable their actions are to you? People judge others. Welcome to reality. Not everyone approaches life the same way, so we all have innumerable differences from one another, and we judge others who have differences we don't like. Judging others' differences is an important behavior we use to justify our other actions and behaviors (i.e. by seeing the outcomes of others' behaviors that we don't like, we can determine if those behaviors are indeed worth our condemnation) and find people who we have things in common with (e.g. people who don't like a certain kind of people are likely to use their mutual disdain for them as a catalyst for a friendship). There's no harm in that until you physically harm someone, or you conspire to harm someone either directly or indirectly.

If you can't handle someone's criticisms, you have much more to worry about than what the person said to you, or the problem he/she is addressing (usually); you're a wuss. If you truly believe that the way you approach your life is appropriate, it should not matter when someone criticizes you. If it does affect you, perhaps you should think about changing your behavior, because you might not firmly believe that what you are doing is appropriate. For example, if someone said you were blind and acting irrationally because you are not racist, would you cry over that? No. You'd be confident in your stance, and his/her criticisms would not affect you. If they do affect you, you are probably unsure if what you are doing is appropriate (e.g. if you are fat and someone fat-shames you, and you get upset, you are probably unsure if your eating habits are appropriate), or a wuss. Or mad. Regardless, the emotions one person experiences as a result of the words of another are not grounds for an arrest.

On the topic of "rights", I'm not sure what Canada thinks of freedom of speech, but it is a core value that the U.S. was founded upon. That's why KKK members are able to congregate and act publicly without being arrested, as long as they don't break any laws. The same goes for any organization whose views are discriminatory. In the U.S., you most likely would not be jailed for talking trash unless you were inciting violence, which is how it should be.

[ComputerNerd]

Slippery slope ...

I feel you should be able to say whatever the fuck you want as long as no one gets hurt.

No you should not, because words have power.
Look at how they can be twisted in the case of mis-representing various ideals in religions.
What you say is you have a right to be a jerk, and nobody should have that right.
Free speech should protect honest speech.
And there is nothing honest about hate speech, simply fearmongering and bias.

Words incite violence too.

[Derpleton]

What a world we live in where 4% of the population dictates what the rest of us can say and do.

[PC2]

Welp, that's a fine opinion. If you want to change that- appeal to your government with sound, well reasoned and prepared arguments. People shape the law.

My government doesn't seem to have a problem with it, but I definetly support better free speech in Canada.

[Regia]

Good.
/10char

[IIamaKing]

Actually, I agree with them.

I don't really get all of this new Trans stuff, but ... What right do you have to be a total asshat to someone who wants to pursue their life in a different manner?

Every right so long as it doesnt include threats.

[Bollocks]

Its Canada - the place that brought us Endus and 'the current year' - I'm certain its suitably vague and Orwellian.

Canadians have said stupid shit for over the years and there has only been two cases in which they have actually arrested people, I think this laws apply to protect transgender people. If you think they are orwellian; which really learn the meaning of that term, then don't insult transgender people it should not be that hard.

[Granyala]

I hate this whole transgender, "choose your gender" bullcrap.

You either have a Y chromosome, in which case your gender is male or you don't in which case you are female (superduper rare genetic anomalies excluded).

Accept reality.

If you can't, deal with your psychological issues.
End of story.

Yes, I do realize that this simple scientific view makes me unpopular among modern hipsters.

[spinner981]

Canadians have said stupid shit for over the years and there has only been two cases in which they have actually arrested people, I think this laws apply to protect transgender people. If you think they are orwellian; which really learn the meaning of that term, then don't insult transgender people it should not be that hard.

In modern day where mere disapproval of a lifestyle is deemed 'hatred' and 'insulting' it basically means that you have to abandon or silence your personal beliefs in order to be found within the law in that regard.

I hate this whole transgender, "choose your gender" bullcrap.

You either have a Y chromosome, in which case your gender is male or you don't in which case you are female.

Accept reality.

If you can't, deal with your psychological issues.
End of story.

Yes, I do realize that this simple scientific view makes me unpopular among modern hipsters.

I wish you could like posts on these forums.

[Bollocks]

What a world we live in where 4% of the population dictates what the rest of us can say and do.

I mean its not a new thing. Here in Latin America we had a lot of this laws approved, I don't know what is the case for Argentina, but as far as I'm concerned in Peru and Bolivia this laws have been approved years ago.

[nonameelf]

I hate this whole transgender, "choose your gender" bullcrap.

You either have a Y chromosome, in which case your gender is male or you don't in which case you are female (superduper rare genetic anomalies excluded).

Accept reality.

If you can't, deal with your psychological issues.
End of story.

Yes, I do realize that this simple scientific view makes me unpopular among modern hipsters.

Reality isn't that simple. Nor is it a scientific view.

[Garnier Fructis]

What a world we live in where 4% of the population dictates what the rest of us can say and do.

It's not just 4% of the population that supports this. And besides, one of the reasons that we don't have direct democracies in the world is that such a system allows the people to run roughshod over others who cannot defend themselves for lack of numbers.

[Sunseeker]

"Hate speech" typically involves urging others into discriminatory action against somebody. So just being like "Trans men are just chicks with inverted vaginas" wouldn't qualify as hate speech.

I'm sure someone could try to take you to court over it and of course, you can't stop everyone from being offended no matter what you say, but since, like all crimes, you'd be entitled to your day in court, you'd have a chance to defend yourself.

[spinner981]

Reality isn't that simple. Nor is it a scientific view.

Reality doesn't somehow mean that imagination can run wild and you can be whatever you wish you could pretend to be. How is basic genetics not a scientific view? Also, this thread isn't going to last much longer.

[Bollocks]

I hate this whole transgender, "choose your gender" bullcrap.

You either have a Y chromosome, in which case your gender is male or you don't in which case you are female (superduper rare genetic anomalies excluded).

Accept reality.

If you can't, deal with your psychological issues.
End of story.

Yes, I do realize that this simple scientific view makes me unpopular among modern hipsters.

Eh its not that simple, a lot of people who are transgender are born believing they are the other gender.

[PC2]

It's not just 4% of the population that supports this. And besides, one of the reasons that we don't have direct democracies in the world is that such a system allows the people to run roughshod over others who cannot defend themselves for lack of numbers.

Yeah the system would allow that, we have an entire government branch for defending every person.

[Azgraal]

Actually, I agree with them.

I don't really get all of this new Trans stuff, but ... What right do you have to be a total asshat to someone who wants to pursue their life in a different manner?

Speaking for myself here. Someone saying they were born in the wrong sex they mentally align with, I can understand and sympathise with. That's almost the same battle as saying you like the opposite sex society expected you to like.

Now those idiots who go around saying genre is a social construct and state they identify themselves as an pansexual being 25% man 40% woman 35% otherkin, and throw a tantrum if you don't remember their stupid pronouns including many x's, that's just being either reatrded by choise or a cry for attention.

[Pangean]

According to this: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...ction-319.html

It says:

"Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of"

and

"Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of"

Is hate speech. So basically any kind of speech that the law arbitrarily decides is 'hateful' (whether it results in action or not) is deemed hate speech. So yes, what I said is basically right. It doesn't mention anything about only disallowing speech directly condoning violence or murder, just speech that they deem 'hateful' that they personally interpret as being 'likely' to cause others to engage in a 'breaching of peace'.

Perhaps you should have posted the rest of the text. You know where it points out the defenses:

No person shall be convicted of an offence under subsection (2)

(a) if he establishes that the statements communicated were true;

(b) if, in good faith, the person expressed or attempted to establish by an argument an opinion on a religious subject or an opinion based on a belief in a religious text;

(c) if the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds he believed them to be true; or

(d) if, in good faith, he intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters producing or tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada.

[nonameelf]

Reality doesn't somehow mean that imagination can run wild and you can be whatever you wish you could pretend to be. How is basic genetics not a scientific view? Also, this thread isn't going to last much longer.

The fact that more than xy and xx exist. Also the fact that more than just those 2 chromosomes affect what sex someone is. There's a whole lot more to genetics than just xx and xy.

[Tzalix]

I hate this whole transgender, "choose your gender" bullcrap.

You either have a Y chromosome, in which case your gender is male or you don't in which case you are female (superduper rare genetic anomalies excluded).

Accept reality.

If you can't, deal with your psychological issues.
End of story.

Yes, I do realize that this simple scientific view makes me unpopular among modern hipsters.

What you're talking about there is a persons biological gender. There's also gender in terms of self-view and identity. That's a matter of psychology, not biology. You are of course free to view that as a psychological issue if you want, but remember that homosexuality and even the unwillingness of slaves to do slave-labour has been, and in some parts of the world still are, considered psychological issues.