"We think [Elite] Players deserve better gear" - Kaivax

[Socialhealer]

Not at all.

The way it is currently is like Gladiator. You finish a tier before the next to get the FoS. If the next tier is released and you didn't get the endboss down, you don't get it, ever.

and the mount isn't removed? title not removed? and you don't need to be in the top 0.5%?

so not like gladiator....

[ablib]

I don't see why this needed a thread. Pretty obvious topic is pretty obvious. Work hard, get better rewards. Been like that since Vanilla.

This. Since the subject of the thread is obvious (you get the best rewards from the most challenging content), then the only intent left for this thread is very clear.

Another thread by the OP that shouldn't even make it to page 2, but it did.

[Volibear]

and the mount isn't removed? title not removed? and you don't need to be in the top 0.5%?

so not like gladiator....

This sounds like PvP elitism, I'll leave you to your little bubble.

[Jaylock]

It definitely makes sense that raiders would get better gear, but it is worth bearing in mind that WoW deals with a complex web of rewards and their relationship to various content. For example, raids and outdoor content are like apples and oranges, but the most striaghtforward gear structure ends with the apple-eater being great at eating oranges and the orange-eater being bad at eating apples. It's a really weird dynamic because of how the game struggles to implement PvE difficulty outside of situations where 9-24 people have to succeed at the same task simultaneously.

Still, it does make sense that raiding would offer a significant power reward, and if it's not significant outside of raids, then it's a bit redundant.

You make some good points. The problem is and the question we all ask ourselves is: why do non-raiders (aka those who either have no desire to step into a normal+ raid scene, or don't have the skill to do so) need the raiders tier set bonuses / trinkets in the first place, if all they would use it for is outdoor quest content? Is killing that monster 1-2 seconds faster really all they care about? I would wager no. I would wager its more of a jealousy thing / a "lets make everyone equal" sort of thing. Very socialist view in a fucking video game. If you do harder stuff in anything in life (including video games), you should be better rewarded.

[Daymanmb]

What do you think about the recent blue post essentially saying "We think [Elite] players deserve better gear?"

Reminder --
We’re sensitive to your concerns and we’ll keep them all in mind as we settle on ilvl values for gear.

Something worth repeating --
There’s been some concern from both PvEers and PvPers that “raiders will just do Arena to get easy gear” and “gladiators will just do Mythic raids to get easy gear.” We feel it’s important to remember how challenging both types of gameplay can be. Downing Mythic bosses and earning Gladiator rating are two of the most difficult accomplishments in World of Warcraft. We think players who have demonstrated skill at those levels deserve to be rewarded with better gear.

This was a direct quote from Kaivax, a blue poster on the official forums.

Personally I agree. If people are going to spend the time and effort in that type of Raid or PvP environment, we better damn well get better gear than people clicking an "i win" button for LFR.

This is why tier bonuses and trinkets from normal and above raiding should not be in LFR at all. Why give players elite level bonuses / trinkets for janitor level performance?

What are your thoughts?

How is this a question? They already do in both PvP and PvE and have since the game started...

[Jaylock]

Well, this is Jaylock we're talking about. That quote was not even directly about LFR yet he's posting this obviously to stir up a big flame War. The post was about exploiting PVP gear to do PVE and vice-versa not about tiets of content difficulty and Rewards.

But it inevitably leads to some cross discussion on the topic. I think Kaivax's point that who cares if you can get the highest end ilvl from the highest end content is spot on. If you are a gladiator level player in PvP, you should get gladiator level gear, and same goes for mythic raiding.

The discussion i'm having is yes, I agree with Kaivax's assessment of, [elite] level players should have the very best gear in the game. The thought as a high end mythic raider of me having to endure the cesspool of LFR to get set bonuses that i may or may not have received yet through heroic / mythic raiding is what I have an issue with. And I think Blizzard agrees with me.

[Socialhealer]

This sounds like PvP elitism, I'll leave you to your little bubble.

nope i'm the mythic raider not the gladiator, i just hate how anyone can walk into previous raids farm the 1% drop, grab the titles, but gladiator? no i have to be the best there and then or i get nothing, sure i can try again for gladiator next season, but you can try again to clear the mythic raids next tier, only the raids get nerfed over time, gladiator stays as hard the whole season.

[Flurryfang]

I think, that you should be able to see, and feel, that you are playing with or against a mythic/gladiator player. I think, that their gear should be very unique and flashy, maybe even close to egotistical. They should do a lot more dmg, healing or take very little dmg. While many high-tier players don't really care, that much about stats, it is something, which might push mid-tier players, who do enjoy stat increases, to go to high-tier.

I really hope, that blizzard at some point will reward Mythic players with some very unique power rewards. Having very powerfull trinkets, and set abilities, tied to Mythic, would proberly make even more people dream of going into Mythic. I do agree with Kaivax, that elite players should get better gear, but blizzard should supercharge that idea more.

[Deleted]

Rating boosting and mythic carries just skyrocketed with this change and so did all the cheats/bots, great news.

[Treno]

But it inevitably leads to some cross discussion on the topic. I think Kaivax's point that who cares if you can get the highest end ilvl from the highest end content is spot on. If you are a gladiator level player in PvP, you should get gladiator level gear, and same goes for mythic raiding.

The discussion i'm having is yes, I agree with Kaivax's assessment of, [elite] level players should have the very best gear in the game. The thought as a high end mythic raider of me having to endure the cesspool of LFR to get set bonuses that i may or may not have received yet through heroic / mythic raiding is what I have an issue with. And I think Blizzard agrees with me.

I'm glad you can form opinions but, sorry, I'm not biting. Better luck next time.

[TheWorkingTitle]

This is why tier bonuses and trinkets from normal and above raiding should not be in LFR at all. Why give players elite level bonuses / trinkets for janitor level performance?

What are your thoughts?

I think you're preaching now. The best rewards should go to the best players, period.

[Sansnom]

What do you think about the recent blue post essentially saying "We think [Elite] players deserve better gear?"

Just to mention he did not mention Elite.

Personally I agree. If people are going to spend the time and effort in that type of Raid or PvP environment, we better damn well get better gear than people clicking an "i win" button for LFR.

This is why tier bonuses and trinkets from normal and above raiding should not be in LFR at all. Why give players elite level bonuses / trinkets for janitor level performance?

What are your thoughts?

They are already getting better gears. Yet they are still demanding more.

[tankbug]

WoD LFR proved that making the raids easier but downgrading the loot to shit makes the whole experience a lot worse.
MoP LFR was perfect. If people screwed up, you would wipe, if you succeeded you had a chance of getting a decent piece.
You should be able to get set items and proper looking gear from LFR.

[Jaylock]

Just to mention he did not mention Elite.

Is it not implied? He said players capable of hitting those elite levels of gameplay, mythic raiding or gladiator level pvp. Thats why i put brackets around elite --> [elite] which means its implied, and not directly stated.

They are already getting better gears. Yet they are still demanding more.

No, we want it left like it is in WoD. Create specific LFR only set bonuses, and create normal-mythic set bonuses.

[Deleted]

You make some good points. The problem is and the question we all ask ourselves is: why do non-raiders (aka those who either have no desire to step into a normal+ raid scene, or don't have the skill to do so) need the raiders tier set bonuses / trinkets in the first place, if all they would use it for is outdoor quest content? Is killing that monster 1-2 seconds faster really all they care about? I would wager no. I would wager its more of a jealousy thing / a "lets make everyone equal" sort of thing. Very socialist view in a fucking video game. If you do harder stuff in anything in life (including video games), you should be better rewarded.

Don't necessarily lump "non-raiders" general casual population into this, I don't think there is a huge majority of "non-raiders" I'll use it loosely as they probably do LFR but I don't think they actually care about these items, They just play the game and enjoy what they play as it is given.

The people who care are the scrub-entitled-casual-wannabe raiders. The people who pay for Ahead of curve or blag it with achievement addons, they see people in full tier with trinkets doing XX% more dps than them and know they cannot compete. They don't want to actually progress raid or learn to play anymore than a casual but they want all the glory. They just want to feel special and good at the game they want to be in a guild clearing mythic but they don't want to put in the work. They are a bit like teen girls who think they can be social media "stars" by posting duck-face pictures wearing designer clothes.

[Socialhealer]

Rating boosting and mythic carries just skyrocketed with this change and so did all the cheats/bots, great news.

yup sadly blizzard doesn't stop rating boosts.

they can't see when 10 russians afk vs another group of boostee's not suspicious at all.

3's is a bit different hard to prove it's not a friend being boosted, but 10 guys constantly losing rbg's and never killing anyone inside? yeh i think i can tell thats a boost.

[zorkuus]

WoD LFR proved that making the raids easier but downgrading the loot to shit makes the whole experience a lot worse.
MoP LFR was perfect. If people screwed up, you would wipe, if you succeeded you had a chance of getting a decent piece.
You should be able to get set items and proper looking gear from LFR.

Difficulty wise it was just about perfect for LFR, that's for sure. They can't really fix braindead players, and shouldn't even try by dumbing it down for everyone.

[Shinv]

I've never felt forced through LFR over the tier gear Its the grind of the legendary quest line that has made LFR forced imo. If your a competent raider you will be well geared before x wings of LFR even open to care about back tracking so much into LFR for tier gear. In fact given the way WoD tier gear was so incredibly powerful and some specs were balanced around such set bonuses I would rather have new recruits be ready with the tier. Instead of joining with a crippling disadvantage, discouraging them and us from playing with each other. What I hate is an x month grind for one item that inevitability becomes mandatory for everyone for every alt.

You don't have to do LFR to gear in a strong guild. LFR casuals and tryhards don't seem to realize this and force upon themselves to make this game an unfun solo player experience. I remember I only really did LFR in MoP to play with someone else when asked before not because I was seeking gear. Elite players do deserve better gear because they actually need it and if everyone suddenly gets the best gear nobody cares for it. I remember getting a piece of mythic bracers for my mage from the garrison during highmaul and just feeling absolutely disgusted with myself I got such an upgrade through a wait menu. That was one of my triggers that made me quit WoD. Getting mythic anything during progression like that just blew my mind and made me so uninspired to keep playing.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

In pve it makes sense, in pvp it doesnt. In pvp people are supposed to compete from an equal ground, and skill should be the difference, not gear. How are players supposed to improve when they start facing higher skilled players with better gear?

[Wallmaker Yahzarah]

Just to note. Elite pvp gear is still currently slotted as cosmetic.