"We think [Elite] Players deserve better gear" - Kaivax

[Jaylock]

This would work. This and the tier bonuses not being compatible with normal+ gear. Like a set piece from normal and one from lfr would not grant a set bonus

I would accept a scenario like this. But the set bonuses would need to be greatly nerfed in comparison to normal+ set bonuses.

[Deleted]

This has ALWAYS been their stance: The best players got the best gear.
This was true in Classic, TBC, all the way to WoD and now also in Legion.
So what do you want to achieve with this thread?

That part is bullshit.
Elite players deserve better gear, not more interesting gear.
That means the lower raids can have the same gear, but with less numbers.

I agree. As long as we agree that lfr in this instance is not categorised as a raid.

[Shibito]

Considering 90% of top arena teams use kickbots and other cheats no they dont deserve it.

[melodramocracy]

I agree. As long as we agree that lfr in this instance is not categorised as a raid.

Sorry, it's a raid.

[Deleted]

Sorry, it's a raid.

Then I can't agree. I'm not against lfr being called a raid btw. I'm against lfr and normal + sharing set bonuses

[Drakain]

Because Bing ask and gaining gear isn't what someone looking for a challenge wants. Same with garrisson missions.

Elite raiders are people looking for a challenge.

Again, so what? If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. Obviously if you're only interested in the challenge and not the gear than clearly you wouldn't care. Right?

[Chaelexi]

Again, so what? If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. Obviously if you're only interested in the challenge and not the gear than clearly you wouldn't care. Right?

Yes raiders are looking for the challenge but after you complete that challenge there needs to be a reward. The only reward if there was no better gear would be world/server firsts(and they took away achieves for that) and after that it is just personal progress but with out any marked way of improving that there is not much to look for.

[Drakain]

Yes raiders are looking for the challenge but after you complete that challenge there needs to be a reward. The only reward if there was no better gear would be world/server firsts(and they took away achieves for that) and after that it is just personal progress but with out any marked way of improving that there is not much to look for.

But the blue post says their design philosophy is that higher difficulty should have better drops - like in mists. So how exactly does tier loot drops in lfr change that?

[Florena]

It's already like that with the stats on gear itself. LFR to Mythic is roughly 30% damage difference.

Yeah, I don't really think the set bonuses need to be nerfed necessarily, so long as mythic raiders still get substantially stronger gear via item level, and even better gear cosmetically sometimes, I'd even be fine with some mythic exclusive drops. Do harder difficulties, get better gear. Compete at a higher level in pvp, get better gear. Seems fair to me, just so long as the reward is proportional to the skill involved.

And wow I just realized this is a jaylock thread. I need to start paying more attention to the OP name.

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Are you against interesting setbonuses for LFR?
Or are you against people being forced into LFR to get that last piece for 4/4?


It's a raid instance with raidbosses and raidloot.
It's a raid.

Exactly. It's not organized raiding, and I think the experience varies drastically between LFR and even Normal raiding, but it is still raiding.

[Egregious]

Why should set bonuses be unique to Normal+? I don't think they should be.

I think they should reward doing queued raids on a satisfying level. Hard content has its perks (much better gear, mounts, achievements, organized play, unique mechanics, loot control, faster progress) and I don't think those are diminished much by nerfed-version LFR gear. Other than being weaker yet rewarding (and encouraging continued flow), LFR tier serves as a good source of transmog.

Before someone again throws in "but the AFKers!" -- that is a different problem, with a different solution. Create metrics and tracking, give the system tips on how to kick, or show players who they should be kicking.

SOO played into the scheme of other rewards (pets, transmog) and tier, too, while Timeless Isle wasn't nearly the windfall of gear Tanaan is. Both outdoor sources are plagued by RNG stats, and without most satisfying bonuses (TI had fairly good trinkets for some classes, 1 slot). MoP in general fell into a sweeter spot of LFR difficulty and reward. LFR players do not want 0 reward, 0 difficulty, or generally unsatisfying versions of either. It isn't just a story mode, and if it is, by all means remove most/all of the rewards and let us solo it on our own time.

As long as they force me to do LFR for Valor... I will be AFK and you scrub lord asshats will carry me through your whiny Palace of Imposed Socialism.

I really think the value of LFR gear should be comparatively low, ideally mostly blues with some epics, as the effort and skill required to accomplish it is atrociously low. Additionally, due to the massive number of difficulties, it becomes complicated to balance tier so that an LFR player is weaker than a Normal player, who is weaker than a Heroic player, who is weaker than a Mythic player. This system is obviously stupid and creates far too drastic of a power rift in the game. It additionally necessitates ludicrous ilvl inflation which further exacerbates the issue of relevant content.

Sorry, don't be jealous of others' loot.

Your only tool is your character and the choices you can make with it. You are rewarded by playing your character. Ilvl is a number that goes up as you increase the power of the rewards you've obtained. While at some level it may be required, that can be likened to the difference between being max level and 5 levels below max. Ilvl is a reward, rewarding you with more character numerical power, which sometimes enables you to "do your job," and most often just assists in the ease.

No, loot is also a tool. Pretty basic concept. Your character, with no loot, is a useless idiot and can't do jack shit.

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Being able to down an internet dragon does not demonstrate and kind of skill or "eliteness"

It just means you put the time in. Ask any PVEr to go get 2K in a season and they'll end up pissing themselves.

Fuck those PVE dumbshits.

Hyperbole, bias, and factually untrue all around. Congratulations.

[A Chozo]

But the gear from Normal, Heroic, Mythic is already better than LFR.
If they introduce tier/trinkets to LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic will STILL have better gear.

Kaivax's comment isn't going against Blizzard's recent implementation on Tier/Trinkets for LFR in Legion.

If we gave gear some arbitrary grade in WoD (not accurate but just to represent the power scaling, and not considering all the other sources of gear):

Mythic = 10
Heroic = 8
Normal = 6
LFR = 2

In Legion:
Mythic = 10
Heroic = 8
Normal = 6
LFR = 4

[Chaelexi]

But the blue post says their design philosophy is that higher difficulty should have better drops - like in mists. So how exactly does tier loot drops in lfr change that?

If you read my earlier comment, I have no problem with tier drops in LFR, I would prefer if they made Mythic gear (possibly heroic) have the cool animations, and look more epic or special looking over the LFR and normal drops. To help differentiate between the drops in major cities. Just like early Vanilla when you would walk up to that geared lock in full felheart and whisper him damn you look cool(wait that was me in full felheart).

[Egregious]

So what? How is that different from anything else? If someone is actually an elite raider, doing a LFR queue is, like, one of many tasks they need to do to be competitive. Frankly, even that argument doesn't make sense because if you're an 'elite' raider, you WANT to be able to maximize your ability to obtain and maintain a competitive edge. The alternative is of having one less opportunity a week to complete your set which doesn't seem like a win/win for a raider.

Because one scenario adds time to your week and one doesn't.

It is a win/win for a raider when they don't have to do 10+ difficulties, or level 10+ characters, or raid on 10+ characters, on 10+ difficulties, 10+ times a week to optimize their chance at getting gear. Their 2x chances (Normal and Heroic prior to the release of Mythic) of getting a piece of gear are the same 2x chances everyone else in the game has. It's not as if they have 1 less opportunity because the number in this scenario isn't 3. One less operates under some backwards as shit logic and also opens up the retarded rabbit hole of why not INFINITYx chances!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!! Clearly that would be the best thing for a raider as it's empirically higher than 2 or 3.

I can tell you from experience... I don't enjoy the fact that the opportunities are present which forced me to raid 50+ hours a week at content launch. Having more of them is not welcome and not something most elite raiders want to be doing.

[Daffan]

And why pvp player must be punished when he wants to do some quests/grinds in the world, simply because <1% of players are idiots who have weird "forced" OCD?

There is a third benefit to proposed system you replied too.

PVP Gear never makes PVE content obsolete.

[Egregious]

Gear ilvl should be the same across the board. Differences should just be cosmetic at this point along with monetary, mount, pet, achievement and title based rewards. I think the only difference between sets should be the bonus and stat allocations and maybe a tiny bit of rng for increase ilvl.

I would normally never think this way but I'm honestly tired of how out of control the ilvl is.

No, RNG is bad. Socialism is bad. Lack of diversity is bad. Lack of incentive is bad. I don't like that idea at all.

Granted the ilvl is out of control and causing serious issues. An additional issue is the manner in which those aforementioned serious issues are being ineffectively solved.

[beanman12345]

When they say better gear, they already get better ilvl gear, and have for like since day 1.

It's not for any of us to decide what non elite players should get, other than what they already get. which is lower ilvl inferior gear.

[Molis]

Let me help you there

We think players who have demonstrated skill at those levels deserve to be rewarded with better gear.

Elite =/= players who have demonstrated skill at those levels.

[Drakain]

Because one scenario adds time to your week and one doesn't.

It is a win/win for a raider when they don't have to do 10+ difficulties, or level 10+ characters, or raid on 10+ characters, on 10+ difficulties, 10+ times a week to optimize their chance at getting gear. Their 2x chances (Normal and Heroic prior to the release of Mythic) of getting a piece of gear are the same 2x chances everyone else in the game has. It's not as if they have 1 less opportunity because the number in this scenario isn't 3. One less operates under some backwards as shit logic and also opens up the retarded rabbit hole of why not INFINITYx chances!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!! Clearly that would be the best thing for a raider as it's empirically higher than 2 or 3.

I can tell you from experience... I don't enjoy the fact that the opportunities are present which forced me to raid 50+ hours a week at content launch. Having more of them is not welcome and not something most elite raiders want to be doing.

So if I understand your argument, you're saying that you don't want anyone to get tiered drops from LFR because you, as a raider, would feel compelled to do LFR and that's not convenient for you?

[OreoLover]

As long as they force me to do LFR for Valor... I will be AFK and you scrub lord asshats will carry me through your whiny Palace of Imposed Socialism. (a useless idiot and can't do jack shit.).

Fine, remove valor, GG's all around. You're pretty basic, yourself.

You must be great at this game.

[Egregious]

So if I understand your argument, you're saying that you don't want anyone to get tiered drops from LFR because you, as a raider, would feel compelled to do LFR and that's not convenient for you?

That is essentially what I am saying. It forces me to go backwards and do LFR because RNG may not have graced me with my drops or my guild may be funneling them to DPS or higher priority classes/specs. To remain competitive, if the option is there, I must go into LFR to subsidize my Normal (which is already fucking annoying as it is) and Heroic opportunities for acquiring tier.

Additionally, as the requirements for LFR are so... should we say, lenient, the quality of the gear should not reflect that of actual difficulties. To be honest, I think it's too much already that they give the number of epics they do for LFR.

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Fine, remove valor, GG's all around. You're pretty basic, yourself.

What's gotten you all tied up in salty knots?

*I see you edited. I am pretty great at this game, I will admit. But under no circumstances do I want to do LFR, ever. However, Blizzard thinks it's in my best interest to do so.