Mcree nerf

[Doylez]

If you want to buff her offenses then you'll have to nerf her defenses to compensate. She is literally THE best damage soaker in the game. She has 500 HP, 400 of which are ARMOR that reduces damage. On top of having Defense Matrix to shield all incoming damage and Boosters to GTFO or GTFI.

Except that she has the biggest and easiest to hit headshot multiplier area in the game, so 500HP means nothing.

[Allenseiei]

Sorry if there is already a thread on this but I've just seen it on the front page of Overpwn and couldnt see a thread on it.

From the official forums http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overw...page=5#post-83

McCree
I've been watching McCree carefully since we've released. McCree's flashbang plays an important role in being a strong option against very fast/agile teams (tracers/genjis/etc). It is also a nice tool to prevent close range devastating abilities and ultimates such as Reaper's Death Blossom.

That said, its probably a bit too good at dealing damage to higher health targets such as Tanks and barriers. I don't have any concrete changes yet, but I'm going to be testing some things internally to see how he plays.

D.Va
D.Va's damage is definitely on the lower side, much like Winstons. They are this way for a similar reason: They are both very mobile and hard to kill. Every character in the game has strengths and weaknesses, its part of what makes the teamplay work well.

That said, I do think the is some room for some D.Va improvements, but these are unlikely to take the shape of increasing her damage output significantly.

McCree is what the dev said. It's too strong against big tank targets. He drops 80% hp on a tank with his right click and can quickly snipe one if he sidesteps into a right click again. Also his flashbag has a huge radius, so tanks have no way to avoid it unless McCree throws it straight into a reinhardt shield.
McCree against non tank targets is fine, most characters oneshot anyway.

D.Va's problem is her reduced mobility when attacking. She's very vulnerable if she's firing her mech guns. Adding this to her huge "headshot" area, her mech lasts nothing against experienced players. It's wrong to compare her to winston who has a 360º barrier and can move effortlessly while attacking and his weapon is an AOE that doesn't miss and goes through Reindhardt shield.
Also another problem that makes D.Va underwhelming is her ultimate. Its a good ultimate but its too easy to avoid in most maps, unlike other ultimates. The most effective way of using it is actually making it go over a wall into the area you want to bomb so people have less reaction time.

I main Rendhardt, Dva, winston and zarya (level 77). D.Va is used in very niche ocasions and her ult I use it more to get back the mech or semi clear an objective than actually trying to kill people.

[Sarange]

After rolling, fan does reduced damage for 5 seconds. There, now he can still flash+fan squishies and 1shot them but he won't be able to full health a tank.

The stun is the problem.

[Gib Lover]

The stun is the problem.

He should be able to stun+fan squishies and insta them. It's part of his identity and kind of his entire job. The problem Blizzard has with him is that he is able to combo tanks

[Torgent]

McCree kills whoever he encounters, even tanks, and he can flashbang over Reinhardt's shield and land a stun, his shots don't lose any damage with range, allowing him to snipe people, also, I think baiting the flashbang should be rewarded, at the moment, McCree doesn't even need it to one shot people
I'd say he deserves a nerf in these areas



Yes, several time
Most of the times I still die in a split second from Fan the Hammer
So now I just avoid running into McCree as much as I can

If you're dying to fan the hammer without flashbang, you're either humping McCree's leg, or just terrible. I'm leaning toward both. Also he does lose damage over range, thanks for showing us that you do not know anything about the game.

[Saverem]

Except that she has the biggest and easiest to hit headshot multiplier area in the game, so 500HP means nothing.

She has armor, which decreases damage. So instead of Bastion hitting her for 20 a shot, he hits her for 15. And then when you finally kill her, you have to kill her again because she has 2 lives.

Not to mention if used right, she has one of the best ults in the game. 20 meter radius that hits for 1k damage and blasts people back.


DVA is more than fine.

[Sarange]

He should be able to stun+fan squishies and insta them. It's part of his identity and kind of his entire job. The problem Blizzard has with him is that he is able to combo tanks

Right, except its too easy to stun people.

[Jester Joe]

Game hasn't even been out a month yet and they're already talking about buffs - nerfs....Give the game more time to mature - geezuz

The game has been out far longer than a month in terms of Beta. There's nothing wrong with buffs and nerfs now that even more players have their hands on it and they see McCree still being picked far too often.

Personally I thought the issue would of been him getting a full reload on a roll, and thought that might be reduced to 3 shots instead.

[Amerrol]

So you feel that he should be weaker in the only area he's strong. Close range. Got it
He's strong yes, but being blown out of all proportion... Also yes. I've heard people claim he can win 1v1 against WM at long range FFS.
The nerf threads are stronk
He'll get tweaked, but the way people want him nerfed is ridiculous.

He can. All it takes are two head shots. It's obviously not the killing potential that she has on him from long range, but he's not completely helpless. His damage doesn't drop off to zero at long range. I think it bottoms out at 75?

I think just getting rid of the reload on the roll should be enough. It should be a positioning tool, not a dps increase. Give it a slightly longer range or lower CD to compensate. There, I fixed McCree.

[Table]

Yeah you all gonna hate me about this but... McCree is not OP (well ok ill take it, its a bit OP), people made him OP. Ok he stuns you and he kills you using his right click, but heroes like Reaper do the same spamming his left click in close range, and I still dont see people QQing about it. But well game's community is always the same: "Oh god this Champion/hero/whatever 2 shot me, he/she/it should be nerfed!". You will never see someone saying : "Well that was maybe my bad, I didnt play well that last fight"...

True, I think people are much too quick to jump to "Blizz plz nerf" instead of trying to play better.

But they have admitted that Mcree is overpowered at the moment. This is very true in competitive play where his ability to easily shut someone down is being overutilized. I heard that the plan to make his right-click have a delay/cool-down to make him a little bit more balanced.

[Halyon]

Is it now that I should complaint hat I think Reaper's a bit UP?

[Saverem]

True, I think people are much too quick to jump to "Blizz plz nerf" instead of trying to play better.

But they have admitted that Mcree is overpowered at the moment. This is very true in competitive play where his ability to easily shut someone down is being overutilized. I heard that the plan to make his right-click have a delay/cool-down to make him a little bit more balanced.

I think Reaper is a poor man's McCree. McCree's ult is at least on par with Reapers in terms of destruction and he has better damage than Reaper. Reaper REQUIRES you to be very close to the player to get the full shutgun blast damage of his weapons, where as a well played McCree can dish out damage from mid range and even long range if they learn how to compensate for the recoil (which can be done). In close range, McCree still beats Reaper because of Flashbang/Hammer Fan combo.

Only thing Reaper has over McCree is mobility.

[Skyfall]

Its kind of an interesting question with McRee and to some extent Widowmaker. At higher levels of play, they are almost certainly OP, and if not that, at least I think its inarguable that they are overrepresented. They effectively invalidate Reaper and Hanzo as hero choices at any level where the players have the accuracy and skill to use them to their full potential.

That being said, at moderate to lower skill levels, they seem to be in a fine state, as evidenced by the many people here who don't see the problem with them. And (and yes i know personal anecdotes are relatively meaningless, but its all i have to go on since i don't see hero usage data anywhere) i don't tend to see double Mcree (or even single mcree) used a ton when i queue up solo for quick play. Maybe i just got unlucky/lucky, but i see a ton of hero diversity at more average levels of play. At the end of day, i don't know, it may be fine that pro play focuses on a few heroes if the game at large sees balance? The pro scene is still competitive and exciting, they just have a slightly smaller hero pool to choose from. That may be ok.

As long as some heroes have a higher skillcap, and some are hitscan and some aren't, I think you can't balance both the high and low end of the skill spectrum fully. So which one should they focus on? I don't really know the answer to that, unlike half the people on this thread I don't think I am a better game designer than Blizzard, but if balancing for pros creates imbalances for the average player, I am not sure its worth it for them?

[Halyon]

I think Reaper is a poor man's McCree. McCree's ult is at least on par with Reapers in terms of destruction and he has better damage than Reaper. Reaper REQUIRES you to be very close to the player to get the full shutgun blast damage of his weapons, where as a well played McCree can dish out damage from mid range and even long range if they learn how to compensate for the recoil (which can be done). In close range, McCree still beats Reaper because of Flashbang/Hammer Fan combo.

Only thing Reaper has over McCree is mobility.

Any decent team won't cluster for Reaper's ult either. Opponent has a Reaper? I ain't sticking to team-mates. I honestly think Reaper needs a bit more range. The range on his shotties make them shitties...

[Hexian]

The Mcree tears are strong in this thread.

[Saverem]

Any decent team won't cluster for Reaper's ult either. Opponent has a Reaper? I ain't sticking to team-mates. I honestly think Reaper needs a bit more range. The range on his shotties make them shitties...

Sometimes you can't help it though, like KotH maps.

[Reyvah]

Any decent team won't cluster for Reaper's ult either. Opponent has a Reaper? I ain't sticking to team-mates. I honestly think Reaper needs a bit more range. The range on his shotties make them shitties...

Playing as a Reinhardt, even if there is an opponent Reaper, teammates still group up on and behind me. It's basically a giant red X on my head saying "Ult here".

As far as the shotgun range, I had a ton more success with him when I played him like a dagger rogue - flank and sneak up behind people, and "stab" them in the back. Those shotguns shred players when you get the drop on them. With the teleport and mobility of Reaper, it's best not to "Rambo" it, and instead play sneaky-sneaky.

[Halyon]

Sometimes you can't help it though, like KotH maps.

True, in some positions it's difficult to not bunch up, but even then, the range on Death Blossom is really short. The damage is fairly high, but short range. I could live with that range if he had more range and less scatter on regular shots though. Because his damage drop-off is crazy unless shooting it a living door like Roadhog or Reinhardt, and even then, the drop-off is noticable.

And people like Genji has way better mobility than Reaper does, and his secondaries deal more damage than the shotties out of actual melee range...

- - - Updated - - -

Playing as a Reinhardt, even if there is an opponent Reaper, teammates still group up on and behind me. It's basically a giant red X on my head saying "Ult here".

As far as the shotgun range, I had a ton more success with him when I played him like a dagger rogue - flank and sneak up behind people, and "stab" them in the back. Those shotguns shred players when you get the drop on them. With the teleport and mobility of Reaper, it's best not to "Rambo" it, and instead play sneaky-sneaky.

If I do that, I get blown to bits and killed before the first 'Die' has been completed. I've had this happen even when I went in behind a group. And nobody died because his ult is channeled...

[Reyvah]

If I do that, I get blown to bits and killed before the first 'Die' has been completed. I've had this happen even when I went in behind a group. And nobody died because his ult is channeled...

Refer again to being sneaky-sneaky.
Dropping the ult behind the enemy team only works if they are otherwise distracted by the rest of your team.

Go in Rambo-style and you'll get sniped before the first "Die" has been completed, like you said.

[Halyon]

Refer again to being sneaky-sneaky.
Dropping the ult behind the enemy team only works if they are otherwise distracted by the rest of your team.

Go in Rambo-style and you'll get sniped before the first "Die" has been completed, like you said.

Tried that too. I can take 2, maybe 3 squishies if I ambush or take them off guard, but anywere there's a tank, I get killed. Like if we're on attack to take a point, if the enemy team's fighting my team on the front, I still die if I go in from the back, making sure nobody sees me, because it's so easy moving out of Reaper's range and kill in return...

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I default to playing rogue-characters, so being sneaky is what I do, and this just...beats me as being underpowered.