[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Did someone kill off Uni? Or is he secretly Wnydoor in disguise...and has been playing us this whole time!!!

http://img.memecdn.com/mad-cow_o_905150.jpg

fite me IRL.

Most of the stuff I've invested energy into for DH has really been solved (Blade Dance getting added to the artifact being chiefly among them, along with establishing it's a part of the AoE kit).

Felblade and Fel Barrage are my new bae's, and Felblade so far seems great, but the proc chance on Fel Barrage charges is really the only thing left i *really* hope they buff in any way.

Wait... i mean... " @Vanyali got carried to Mythic Archimonde, and he CLEARLY hasn't been testing Havoc Demon Hunters for very long or else he'd KNOW that Demon Hunters need their self healing to be buffed to be OP and that we also need a snare breaker AND a snare baseline and all the cool shit should be baseline and that if they were they wouldn't get nerfed at all because that'd be stupid. Also, Vanyali mind control's his guild mates to defend him like a pleb and all the PvP problems for Havoc CLEARLY need to be solved in the base talent tree and the pvp talent tree shouldn't be buffed instead. Did I mention i'll only talk to people who PvP? Fuck them dragon slayers."

/s off (that's what you get for saying i'm secretly Wyndoor in disguise, i hope you're happy)

[Vanyali]

Why do I get punished for something someone else did!

[ChakanDH]

Why do I get punished for something someone else did!

Because you're a girl, duh :P

Oh, btw I'm Eos on the wow forums, in case you hadn't caught on.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Why do I get punished for something someone else did!

Isn't it obvious? You're a "dragonslayer" who got carried through Mythic Archimonde, and based on the fact you don't agree with me you CLEARLY HAVEN'T BEEN TESTING SINCE EARLY ALPHA. GIT GUD.

Okay, i'm done with my Wyndoor impressions. I need to take a shower to clean that off.

[The Archmage]

Can anyone on beta tell me if fel barrage still just floats you up for a second or so and spits out some fel fire orbs or whatever?
The spell looks so weak, graphically/animation wise =(

OMG!!!! Get ready for Una's wrath!

[nox597]

Hooray, the official forums seem to have calmed down a little, and constructive things are being discussed! A few little sputtering flames here and there, but for the most part positive!

Would anyone with Beta access mind asking my previous question about Overwhelming Power being worth looking at, for self healing in PvP (the only response I saw was @Vanyali saying she didn't have the artifact trait yet)?


Edit: I spoke too soon... There goes Wyndoor again...

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

OMG!!!! Get ready for Una's wrath!

Why does everyone want to fite me IRL. I don't get it.

I mean, my beard does all the work, i just sit here and type furiously from my computer.

OT: Different strokes for different folks. I actually agree with Tiase to a degree in that there really isn't much to the animation, but there also isn't much to the Blade Dance animation and I still fuckin' love it. It get's the point across what you're doing is unleashing some mo'fuggin' fel magic, but i DO agree it could be spruced up a bit: ESPECIALLY when you use it at a full 5 charges.

- - - Updated - - -

Fel barrage honestly just reminds me of, was it chi wave?
I can't remember, it's a spell that monks have but only one of those "bolts" fly off. It's like they just took that monk ability and spammed a few more bolts and said that's a wrap

Eh, the actual spell effect looks a bit like the healy portion of Chi Wave, but the part where your character levitates and it exits out of their chest is what sells me on it personally.

- - - Updated - - -

Hooray, the official forums seem to have calmed down a little, and constructive things are being discussed! A few little sputtering flames here and there, but for the most part positive!

Would anyone with Beta access mind asking my previous question about Overwhelming Power being worth looking at, for self healing in PvP (the only response I saw was @Vanyali saying she didn't have the artifact trait yet)?


Edit: I spoke too soon... There goes Wyndoor again...

Yeah, the good news however is that people are getting wise to Wyndoor's bullshit. They're starting to realize that all their complaints are about PvP but they want Havoc to essentially be OP as fuck with more self healing and defensives and a snare and a snare breaker.

They are *not* reasonable. There's a whole 2 other people who are on their bandwagon and people have figured out they just want to be OP and don't give 2 fucks about any semblance of balance.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

That is actually the most sad part. It looks so....weird. Just floating for what? 1 second to have a few bolts come out of you.
Considering it's a lvl 110 talent, for demon hunters and called FEL BARRAGE I just imagined it'd be something more aggressive and cool looking.

Floating because the Fel is escaping your chest via Alien Chest-burster style maybe? It's a magical force, not gonna pretend i understand why, lol.

I was thinking for awhile it could use a brief Inner Demon visual to spruce it up perhaps. Bigger bolts for more stacks on cast would be great, or some additional visual for more stacks or maximum stacks would be great.

[nox597]

How neat would Fel Barrage look if it caused new tattoos to appear on your character's body somewhere, and illuminate as a charge was generated, until you had all 5, and they formed a pattern, then draining as you unleashed them on your foes.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

How neat would Fel Barrage look if it caused new tattoos to appear on your character's body somewhere, and illuminate as a charge was generated, until you had all 5, and they formed a pattern, then draining as you unleashed them on your foes.

WTB. Or even just causing your tat's to start glowing period as you gained charges.

[ChakanDH]

Sweet jesus, you can ignore people on the WoW forums? I had no idea!!

Now I'm torn between setting the fucker to ignore, or indulging in my guilty pleasure of watching him make a complete cockface of himself over and over....oh the dilemma!!

As for Fel barrage's animation, I liken it to a burst of overwhelming fel energy being released, akin to Broly from Dragonball Z when he releases a surge of chi blasts that come directly from his chest.

[Deleted]

Alright time for next build predictions, remember I was 100% accurate last patch.

Havoc:
One tooltip typo fixed,
several tooltips changed to say same thing in different way,
talents shuffled,
Animation cancel addressed but not fixed, causing new animation bug (Vani once again finds a new damn way to break it)
Desperate buffs to Bloodlet in attempt to make it usable talent, yet no cookie


Vengeance:
Talents shuffled,
Agonizing Flames nerfed/buffed,
several minor nerfs/buffs all around (3-5%)
parry buffed and nerfed

[Deleted]

WoW Balance isn't in a good place though... I just recently went over to DK from Warrior, I am new to the DK and I can win 1v2 reasonably easy, whereas playing a Warrior, that is only possible if these people are afk or unaware of the game. I can't imagine what I can do as an experienced DK. I'm just saying, don't discuss balance too much, can't expect Blizzard to fix that, stuff is OP all the time, just hope DH's get OP treatment, instead of the Warrior treatment, specifically Arms. All Arms Warriors I know are quitting the game or the class, it quite literally is that bad.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Sweet jesus, you can ignore people on the WoW forums? I had no idea!!

Now I'm torn between setting the fucker to ignore, or indulging in my guilty pleasure of watching him make a complete cockface of himself over and over....oh the dilemma!!

As for Fel barrage's animation, I liken it to a burst of overwhelming fel energy being released, akin to Broly from Dragonball Z when he releases a surge of chi blasts that come directly from his chest.

Ignore and report them. And maybe Whisa/ @Vanyali will use their mind control powers to get their beta access revoked and given to meeeeeeeeeeeee. After all, you guys keeping up with the beta thread should know by now that Vanyali uses Mind Control powers to get his guildmates to stand up for him after all, right?

[chooi]

Ignore and report them. And maybe Whisa/ @Vanyali will use their mind control powers to get their beta access revoked and given to meeeeeeeeeeeee. After all, you guys keeping up with the beta thread should know by now that Vanyali uses Mind Control powers to get his guildmates to stand up for him after all, right?

It's too damn funny, though. Cannot. Resist. Must. Resist.

*grabs more popcorn*


Have you (not you specifically, all of you guys) my post about EB healing with Demonic + Soul Rending?

Do you think that EB with Demonic getting the Leech from SR is actually intended or just a bug? I am curious to see how the devs will react to that (sent ingame report) so have it on the watchlist for next build.

[Orloth]

Tough to say. Looking at the development of Demonic: It triggers at the beginning of EB, and was extended in length so that it covers 5 sec after EB is finished. It doesn't match the tooltip, but if it takes more effort to fix it then the problems it causes, then they'll probably leave it as is.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

It's too damn funny, though. Cannot. Resist. Must. Resist.

*grabs more popcorn*


Have you (not you specifically, all of you guys) my post about EB healing with Demonic + Soul Rending?

Do you think that EB with Demonic getting the Leech from SR is actually intended or just a bug? I am curious to see how the devs will react to that (sent ingame report) so have it on the watchlist for next build.

It's getting ridiculous with the personal attacks. I feel bad for Vanyali's guild mate, because he's doing everything in his power to try and get them to provide actual feedback and to get a dialogue going between the PvE and PvP parties so that they can agree on a reasonable middle ground.

Back OT: Would Eye Beam benefiting from Soul Rending on its own before Demonic actually starts after it be broken in any way? It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if it did even without taking Demonic, would it?

[Forde]

Well, been leveling a DH over the course of the last few days, just hit 106 today.

Definitely have some interesting impressions about Momentum vs Fel Eruption.

I really like how Fel Eruption feels awesome when I use it, it hits hard and gives good feed back when I use it. Obviously personal preference. I like the straightforward nature of it, and how it has synergy with a lot of the other spells, and can be used with a variety of other builds.

Momentum is quite interesting. I still haven't mastered the FR animation cancelling, but am able to pull it off and have about 2.5 seconds of uptime on the mob with the buff. Using Felblade mid VR often works well and gets 3-3.5 seconds of uptime. Managing fury generation with momentum is rather strange, personally speaking, so that's certainly an anecdote.

I don't have a great deal of experience with momentum yet, so my opinion might change on it, but its relatively mixed right now. On larger bosses FRing around is definitely more doable, but in some cases I can see it being rather frustrating from my perspective.

Also, I hate how my dungeon journal doesn't work on my DH. So frustrating.

[Soulfròst]

New build, boys. WTB some talent reworks and activation of the Artifact Knowledge system!

[BiggestNoob]

Getting the leech during Eye Beam while running Demonic definitely seems buggy and a bit OP for the survivability of Havoc in general. The tooltip says after EB is done, so unless they update the tooltip to indicate during EB and 5 seconds after it finishes channeling, I'm going to consider it a bug.

Well, been leveling a DH over the course of the last few days, just hit 106 today.

Definitely have some interesting impressions about Momentum vs Fel Eruption.

I really like how Fel Eruption feels awesome when I use it, it hits hard and gives good feed back when I use it. Obviously personal preference. I like the straightforward nature of it, and how it has synergy with a lot of the other spells, and can be used with a variety of other builds.

Momentum is quite interesting. I still haven't mastered the FR animation cancelling, but am able to pull it off and have about 2.5 seconds of uptime on the mob with the buff. Using Felblade mid VR often works well and gets 3-3.5 seconds of uptime. Managing fury generation with momentum is rather strange, personally speaking, so that's certainly an anecdote.

I don't have a great deal of experience with momentum yet, so my opinion might change on it, but its relatively mixed right now. On larger bosses FRing around is definitely more doable, but in some cases I can see it being rather frustrating from my perspective.

Also, I hate how my dungeon journal doesn't work on my DH. So frustrating.

Fel Eruption hits really hard. It seems like a legitimately strong contender on that row for PvP but is a bit weak in PvE. And if you're already running lots of CC in a group, momentum while in meta would let you chase down people and get really hard annihilation crits on them (probably far in excess of what FE can do). I also liked it while leveling since it was an extra stun and I wasn't ever really hurting for fury. I think the bonus damage against crit-immune targets is bugged. When I was last using it I was getting ~500k crits against stunnable targets and ~500k crits against immune targets as well. If it really did double damage against immune targets it'd at least be a nice nuke for burst damage.

I'm not a big fan of Momentum for quite a few reasons. I'm basically fine with Prepared but I'd like it more if they fixed Felblade so its charge would actually work after VR if you don't wait until after the apex. I'm not sure why Prepared generates fury at a rate of 5/s while Appetite has 2/s and they're on the same row. Appetite isn't "easier" to play by any stretch of the imagination, especially with orbs spawning up to 20 yards away (well out of melee range, still not reachable even with 1 GCD and high mastery, often requiring a Felblade back into melee). The only benefit for Appetite would be pooling in excess of 130 for meta, but with enough crit chance, VR/Felblade before meta and again halfway through meta with a decent crit rate would basically guarantee no biting during meta.