BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Kalis]

Lots of globalists in this thread.

Anyways a couple of new polls have come out showing leave at 52% so there are definitely some sweet nationalism winds blowing.

The undecideds will decide it, if that makes sense.

Aggregates of polls show a marginal lead for the remain camp, but it is only a couple of percentage points and undecideds are about 15%ish. Neither side can really claim to be winning, nor can either side claim to be running an honest campaign free of fear mongering bollocks...unfortunately.

[dribbles]

The undecideds will decide it, if that makes sense.

Whilst acceptable at dinner parties to say "I am not sure", or "probably safer to remain" it's almost a dirty little secret to say you are for Brexit.

If the unvocal undecideds are to swing it I would hazard a guess most of those are for leaving.

We will see.

[Pua]

Only 22 days reading silly comments about why it's a good thing to leave the EU. Gosh un-informed people are silly.

Because someone votes to leave doesn't mean they're "uninformed" or "silly". It just means they have different priorities because, ultimately, that's what it all boils down to.

Anyways a couple of new polls have come out showing leave at 52% so there are definitely some sweet nationalism winds blowing.

It's largely neck and neck if you look at them all. Phone polls tend to be siding with the remain camp, while online polls tend to show more strength in the vote for departure. Also, again, wanting to leave the EU isn't necessarily nationalism in the conventional sense.

Centre left Parties together held about 55% of the vote. When it comes down to it if you're on the left you have these choices.

Labour are not a centre left party. People like Flint, Kendall, Hunt and Umunna are as right-wing as you can get. They're in the Labour party because their chances of doing well locally as a Conservative are low.

The undecideds will decide it, if that makes sense.

Aggregates of polls show a marginal lead for the remain camp, but it is only a couple of percentage points and undecideds are about 15%ish. Neither side can really claim to be winning, nor can either side claim to be running an honest campaign free of fear mongering bollocks...unfortunately.

Ironically, James Kelly discusses this in the context of the Scottish independence referendum, and its impact there. Whether it sees the same behaviour is doubtful, given that both sides of the argument are formed by the establishment.

[Deleted]

Whilst acceptable at dinner parties to say "I am not sure", or "probably safer to remain" it's almost a dirty little secret to say you are for Brexit.

If the unvocal undecideds are to swing it I would hazard a guess most of those are for leaving.

We will see.

I was undecided till yesterday. Seeing Gove and Johnson blather on about immigration again, after their party has seen immigration soar to unprecedented levels and try and blame that on the EU, puts me in the remain camp.
The largest immigrant group coming here is Chinese, which are coming because Uk students have been priced out of the market. That's nothing to do with Europe, it is the sole responsibility of the conservatives. I'm sick of their bullshit.

[Noradin]

personally, i'm tempted to vote out. not because i'm a racist, bigot or otherwise, but purely because i dont trust the EU. none of the EU commissioners were voted into their positions, in fact paxman has just interviewed one who quite readily admits he's never won an election, or even stood for election. so how does this guy end up making EU law? then there's people like Tony fucking Blair working on the EU commission. fuck that dude, seriously, i find it hard to believe he's not been shot, or stabbed by a member of the public. it's also very interesting how the Chilcott report is not being released until the week after the vote.

They are appointed by democratically elected representatives.
You could just as well complain about not directly electing people like the president of the local police force, the leader of your countries secret service and so on.

Those, too, have democratic legitimitation due to being appointed by democratically elected representatives.

[Pua]

That's nothing to do with Europe, it is the sole responsibility of the conservatives. I'm sick of their bullshit.

I think lots of people are in this camp, and I'm sort of leaning there myself.

The reality is that we've got a calamitously poor government that lies to its people, tries to control the state broadcaster, has an almost wholly compliant national media, has blown more money on savings measures than such measures would have saved, is wedded to the failing austerity "policy", seems to be committing electoral fraud and has a clear agenda to distribute wealth upwards.

Because of our laughably undemocractic electoral system, it's frustratingly hard to get rid of them. No matter how fanatical they become (like pouring more austerity on the disabled, trying to retroactively change the law regarding "workfare", selling the NHS, privatising schools, changing child poverty measurements, being openly complicit in tax avoidance or abandoning the Human Rights Act), uninformed people will still vote for them.

Europe isn't perfect, and I don't support the way the European political elite do a lot of things - but if the EU can save Britain from even some Conservative excesses, then it's got to be worth it.

[caervek]

I was undecided till yesterday. Seeing Gove and Johnson blather on about immigration again, after their party has seen immigration soar to unprecedented levels and try and blame that on the EU, puts me in the remain camp.

Have you actually looked at the statistics? between 2014-2015 non-EU immigration fell by 10,000 whereas EU immigration increased by 6000. In total 270,000 people immigrated from the EU and 277,000 from everywhere else on the planet.

I don't personally care about immigration issue, but to pretend like a large amount of it isn't due to open border EU membership is silly.

[Deleted]

I suspect, that 50,3% will vote to remain in the EU. *wink* *wink*

[Slant]

Have you actually looked at the statistics? between 2014-2015 non-EU immigration fell by 10,000 whereas EU immigration increased by 6000. In total 270,000 people immigrated from the EU and 277,000 from everywhere else on the planet.

I don't personally care about immigration issue, but to pretend like a large amount of it isn't due to open border EU membership is silly.

You have a problem with Germans and French immigrating to the UK? Fuck, this is the first time I've actually felt unwelcome in Britain. And I'm German, so that says a lot.

[Hooked]

Leave is the only choice, and UKIP.

[Pua]

You have a problem with Germans and French immigrating to the UK? Fuck, this is the first time I've actually felt unwelcome in Britain. And I'm German, so that says a lot.

Visit Scotland. I reckon the vote to remain in will exceed 65% of Scots.

[Slant]

Visit Scotland. I reckon the vote to remain in will exceed 65% of Scots.

Yeah, you know what? I think I will. I've heard only good things [1] about Scotland from friends who were there on vacation. Seems to me the Scottish are pretty fucking cool dudes.

[1]: Except Haggis. They think it's weird. :P

[caervek]

You have a problem with Germans and French immigrating to the UK?

Nope, hence why I say I don't in the post you quoted.

[Deleted]

You have a problem with Germans and French immigrating to the UK? Fuck, this is the first time I've actually felt unwelcome in Britain. And I'm German, so that says a lot.

Have Germans and French ever been welcome in the English part of the UK? lol

[Mehrunes]

They are appointed by democratically elected representatives.
You could just as well complain about not directly electing people like the president of the local police force, the leader of your countries secret service and so on.

Those, too, have democratic legitimitation due to being appointed by democratically elected representatives.

But if we take reality into consideration, then we no longer can cry about how undemocratic the EC and the rest of EU is. So to hell with reality!

[Pua]

[1]: Except Haggis. They think it's weird. :P

It's an acquired taste, haha. For some, it's really hard to acquire.

But if we take reality into consideration, then we no longer can cry about how undemocratic the EC and the rest of EU is. So to hell with reality!

While forgetting that British paragon of democracy, the House of Lords!

[Mehrunes]

While forgetting that British paragon of democracy, the House of Lords!

Or the first past the post voting system for their own national election. But it's OK, evil EU went back in time to when UK chose this one and forced it upon them poor oppressed Brits.

[DarkAmbient]

I was undecided till yesterday. Seeing Gove and Johnson blather on about immigration again, after their party has seen immigration soar to unprecedented levels and try and blame that on the EU, puts me in the remain camp.
The largest immigrant group coming here is Chinese, which are coming because Uk students have been priced out of the market. That's nothing to do with Europe, it is the sole responsibility of the conservatives. I'm sick of their bullshit.

You shouldn't base your vote in this referendum on party politics or the people advocating on both sides.

[Emophia]

I'm voting stay, I like being part of the EU, and I'm hoping to do my masters in slovenia some year.

Thankfully it looks like stay has a comfortable win on their hands, though cameron isn't helping any.

[bufferunderrun]

if uk remain then an evolution toward a federation will become nearly impossible, i on the contrary hope that all the countries that prevent the unification process will leave; Eu has been shackled and hindered for far too many years arising too many problem that need to be addressed without further delay.