[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Ustabil]

Servers live and can confirm the nerfs to DH. No talent changes. But with my gear Eye Beam does 250k dmg (2s), 380k(3s) with Blind Fury
Chaos Strike does 175k so it seems for pure ST purposes Eye Beam not worth it anymore. As 2 Chaos Strikes does more dmg than Eye Beam.

Altho with demonic it still will be used on CD just to be able to spam Annihilation.

So much Fun.
In 2 builds our ST rotation gone from 4+ abillities to 1.5 (Annihlation/chaos blade and Demon Bite, Wich i feel i dont rly cast to much cause the crit refund on Anni/CB)

[Donovan4893]

Our Artifact layout got changed




Unless I missed this last build

[Vanyali]

Ha. Can no longer skip RoTI. Critical Chaos also got moved to not depend on TG or FoTS, which are good. But you can still skip Inner Demons, which is mildly hilarious.

[BiggestNoob]

Much needed nerf for Eye beam. AoE spells should not be so powerful that you include them in your ST rotation for damage(apart from when you take Demonic talent).

Will you use it for ST(without Demonic) now? Maybe not. Will it still be a massive burst of damage on cleave? Yes.

I disagree really, because now we have one less ability to use in ST. Before you had to weigh your use of EB to account for add spawn timers as well, and now you'll just sit on it until adds do spawn.

This doesn't change too much, the strongest build for heroics/mythics atm doesn't revolve around EB doing much except on trash pulls. It's just sad that the spec is now basically 3-4 buttons if your goal is to kill bosses quickly (completely ignoring adds).

This feels like a bit of a kneejerk due to people whining about EB. Non-DHs always hyperbole "you could go DH and just press Eye Beam and be top DPS." It's not quite the case, to pull off > 400k on a 60 second fight requires planning and decent play (and good crit RNG), and eye beam was like <10% of your damage in that case. It was amazing on trash pulls but that's about it, and most people don't know that if you had a trash pack last long enough that BD would often pull way ahead.

I don't quite understand this change, but it's not like it's a big deal all things considered. I mean, I'm surprised that's the focus and not things like Appetite giving us a permanent 20% DPS increase on Demon bosses, meaning we'll be completely untouchable.

not optimum rotation i guess.
u go:
nemesis
Fury of illidary
build fury (e.g. VR FB)
pop chaos blades macrod with meta
after chaos blades run out
next chaos blades
after meta runs out Eye Beam

chaos blades does way more dmg if paired with meta and annhilation

i was doing HoV first boss runs, pulled like 900k dps and boss was dead b4 he recognized he was attacked xD

You should also VR/FB and pool before the second CB, that way you get the rest of meta as pure annihilation spam. And there'd be no reason to EB there at the end unless there's an add out, given the nerf.

[Sangomah]

Where does that "All Talents at 100" come from?

If you look at the changes, all the Vengence talents say 15, 75 etc. Not in yet it seems. Just datamined.

Tested dps on a dummy.

With Chaos Cleave (never used Eye Beam as I hated the root time :P) my ST dps seems more or less the same, or so minor that I dont notice it.

[Vanyali]

I disagree really, because now we have one less ability to use in ST. Before you had to weigh your use of EB to account for add spawn timers as well, and now you'll just sit on it until adds do spawn.

This doesn't change too much, the strongest build for heroics/mythics atm doesn't revolve around EB doing much except on trash pulls. It's just sad that the spec is now basically 3-4 buttons if your goal is to kill bosses quickly (completely ignoring adds).

This feels like a bit of a kneejerk due to people whining about EB. Non-DHs always hyperbole "you could go DH and just press Eye Beam and be top DPS." It's not quite the case, to pull off > 400k on a 60 second fight requires planning and decent play (and good crit RNG), and eye beam was like <10% of your damage in that case. It was amazing on trash pulls but that's about it, and most people don't know that if you had a trash pack last long enough that BD would often pull way ahead.

I don't quite understand this change, but it's not like it's a big deal all things considered. I mean, I'm surprised that's the focus and not things like Appetite giving us a permanent 20% DPS increase on Demon bosses, meaning we'll be completely untouchable.

Oh, that's a separate issue that I do agree with; it takes things away from "lol it's 60%+ annihilation already". That's something we suffer with for a LOT of our spells, actually.

However... the massive nerf is inline with their tuning philosophy - tune in wide swings, then slowly bring it closer to ideal with each one. It'll be shit for this patch. It'll likely be buffed next patch, but not as high as it was.

[Phunkle]

If you look at the changes, all the Vengence talents say 15, 75 etc. Not in yet it seems. Just datamined.

Tested dps on a dummy.

With Chaos Cleave (never used Eye Beam as I hated the root time :P) my ST dps seems more or less the same, or so minor that I dont notice it.

Those talents have been labeled as just that before. That is just misreading the notes on your part.

[Sangomah]

Those talents have been labeled as just that before. That is just misreading the notes on your part.

My bad then. First time I noticed :O

Was hopeful for the prepatch

[Dimzum]

Ha. Can no longer skip RoTI. Critical Chaos also got moved to not depend on TG or FoTS, which are good. But you can still skip Inner Demons, which is mildly hilarious.

Going strictly off the picture, it looks like you can skip RoTI. I can't check for a bit longer until I get home and DL the patch. Though it looks like traits you could skip to get to the gold traits are now required.

Still thinking of not bothering with any of the gold traits until last.

[Vanyali]

Going strictly off the picture, it looks like you can skip RoTI. I can't check for a bit longer until I get home and DL the patch. Though it looks like traits you could skip to get to the gold traits are now required.

Still thinking of not bothering with any of the gold traits until last.

*cough* I may have hallucinated and not seen the line connecting Illidari Magic to the other one...

[ChakanDH]

My bad then. First time I noticed :O

Was hopeful for the prepatch

If you look at the dk's, they have the same thing(15,30,45 etc), though they get theirs at 56,57,58 etc

[Drahkais]

Vengeance has a stronger "Eye Beam" than Havoc. What a time to be alive.

[Segerr]

On this build my Felblade isnt charging me back to the target after a Vengeful Retreat.

Maybe some path issues?

[Drahkais]

On this build my Felblade isnt charging me back to the target after a Vengeful Retreat.

Maybe some path issues?

Still working for me on the dummies in our hall. Haven't tried outside though.

[Ustabil]

You guys ready for the ultimate LFR build on DH.

Going Chaos Blade, Demon Blades, Fel Blade, Nemesis,Demon Reborn , Chaos Blade

The single target rotation will be 2 spells and 4 1min+ CD's

Quite sure even a melted cheese could pull off that rotation.

[Sangomah]

You guys ready for the ultimate LFR build on DH.

Going Chaos Blade, Demon Blades, Fel Blade, Nemesis,Demon Reborn , Chaos Blade

The single target rotation will be 2 spells and 4 1min+ CD's

Quite sure even a melted cheese could pull off that rotation.

rofl

Felblade charges you back, but you need to wait for the backflip animation to finish first. At least my 200 ms self needs to do that, or its a 50/50 it won't work

[Segerr]

rofl

Felblade charges you back, but you need to wait for the backflip animation to finish first. At least my 200 ms self needs to do that, or its a 50/50 it won't work

Yeah that might be it.

Thank you

[Ustabil]

Felblade only charges your if your outside melee range. So if you VR-Felblade to fast it will go of when your in melee range and therefore the charge wont be activated. So wait for VR to put you outside of melee range then use it.

[BiggestNoob]

Felblade only charges your if your outside melee range. So if you VR-Felblade to fast it will go of when your in melee range and therefore the charge wont be activated. So wait for VR to put you outside of melee range then use it.

Felblade always charges, that's why it doesn't work on some fixed-position bosses unless you jump into their hole. It needs to be reworked a bit so it's not so awkward, and I'm fine with VR being cancelled by Felblade since it's another ability (just pls no Glide/jump cancelling).

[Lillpapps]

My bad then. First time I noticed :O

Was hopeful for the prepatch

The talent rows are not labeled "Tier 1, Tier 2" etc but instead they are labeled after the generic level progression for them. Just happens that it's not correct for DK's and DH's.