LFR: Success or Failure?

[Glorious Leader]

World first guilds required their members to do LFR during Dragon Soul and all of MoP because they could actually gain an advantage going into heroic raiding, even if it was only for a week or two, and all guilds no matter on what level of raiding they were on, if a player wanted to raid with a guild, they required you to at least get the tier sets from LFR before you could join the normal raid.

Which in so far as those guilds are concerned tough shit. It isn't required that they do that, in the sense that a sub is a requirement for me to play the retail version of the game on a live server. Or in the sense that mathematically they would never have been able to ever kill those bosses had they taken an extra day or two. The demand they placed on their raiders is WHOLLY on themselves and should in no way shape or form impact the games development. Mostly those guilds didn't complain about it anyway, they exploited the shit out of it and earned their way to bans. The people who weren't worlds firsting who complained about it should seek therapeutic help. They should not have design cater to them in any way shape or form. It has been an unmitigated disaster for the game.

[Jaylock]

Which in so far as those guilds are concerned tough shit. It isn't required that they do that, in the sense that a sub is a requirement for me to play the retail version of the game on a live server. Or in the sense that mathematically they would never have been able to ever kill those bosses had they taken an extra day or two. The demand they placed on their raiders is WHOLLY on themselves and should in no way shape or form impact the games development. Mostly those guilds didn't complain about it anyway, they exploited the shit out of it and earned their way to bans. The people who weren't worlds firsting who complained about it should seek therapeutic help. They should not have design cater to them in any way shape or form. It has been an unmitigated disaster for the game.

So because you cant get shiny tier sets out of a pinata version of the game, you think its an "unmitigated disaster?" lol, thats pretty cute. LFR in general has been a disaster for the game. It shouldn't have been implemented in the first place. So from TAHT perspective, I will agree with you. Taking a step to remove the incentive to run LFR is a step in the right direction, and hopefully it leads to the complete removal of LFR

[Sylreick]

It succeeded in doing what it was designed to do. It was a failure for not living up to peoples expectations of what they think it was meant to be. So, both?

[Dhrizzle]

LFR worked okay for me. I could queue up whilst doing something else, do the content that rounds off the story and have a gentle gear grind that usually ended before I got fed up with the raid. It would be nice if there was a bit more variety in gear appearance but otherwise it was fine.

[MoanaLisa]

So because you cant get shiny tier sets out of a pinata version of the game, you think its an "unmitigated disaster?" lol, thats pretty cute. LFR in general has been a disaster for the game. It shouldn't have been implemented in the first place. So from TAHT perspective, I will agree with you. Taking a step to remove the incentive to run LFR is a step in the right direction, and hopefully it leads to the complete removal of LFR

You're still under the impression that LFR exists for players. It's a nice story but it's not true really. It exists so developers can still develop the sorts of raids they like to raid in. They have basically come right out and said that in so many words. If players get to see raids that's all fine and everything but for now the primary reason it stays is because Blizzard wants it to.

[ro9ue]

Jaylock: Success or Failure?

Wins some loses some.

[Deleted]

LFR sits in its own place in the game, as it currently stands. It's only worth running if you need catchup tokens for legendary or want to see the raids and don't have the ability to find a normal. It is pretty much redundant as a gearing path as Ashran/Tanaan give much better. If more people took the risk of putting themselves up on group finder for a normal pug they'd find its not so scary and get much better rewards. Trouble is in WoW nobody actually wants to teamplay they just want to get stuff for doing as least possible in their playtime.

[MoanaLisa]

What this means is that Blizzard is run by bean counters now so they can't produce content without proving that it is used by X players for Y hours a week, which disregards whether they actually like doing it or they feel like they have to because they need to do some legendary quest bullshit.

Game studios that don't pay attention to bean counters don't remain game studios very long. Ask anyone associated with 38 Studios. There are others; many in fact. But in your case you're wrong. Blizzard likes making raids. Hence LFR so they can keep making raids. I thought that part was pretty clear. Maximal audience for raiding with minimal effort.

[Glorious Leader]

So because you cant get shiny tier sets out of a pinata version of the game, you think its an "unmitigated disaster?" lol, thats pretty cute. LFR in general has been a disaster for the game. It shouldn't have been implemented in the first place. So from TAHT perspective, I will agree with you. Taking a step to remove the incentive to run LFR is a step in the right direction, and hopefully it leads to the complete removal of LFR

Yea actually and the principle in general that any non raid content cannot be too rewarding lest one group of players feel compelled by their own peers and their own social pressures to participate in that content.

It looks like in the beta at least LFR is getting tier and trinkets back. With the legendary trinkets dropping in the world Blizzard is now seemingly aiming to reward lfr and non raid content better then it did in wod. The complete removal of lfr is nowhere in the picture.

- - - Updated - - -

Game studios that don't pay attention to bean counters don't remain game studios very long. Ask anyone associated with 38 Studios. There are others; many in fact. But in your case you're wrong. Blizzard likes making raids. Hence LFR so they can keep making raids. I thought that part was pretty clear. Maximal audience for raiding with minimal effort.

I find the fact that you're being tasked with defending lfr so amusing. When I stop and think about it yes I'd like them to remove lfr because I'd like them to forgo making raid content to make other stuff. Now we both recognize that LFR is what lets them make the content they want (lfr) but these folks seem to be under the impression that they can have their cake and eat it to so that leaves you in the position of defending lfr.

[Teebone]

Jaylock, dude... get some help. You've been posting the same shit for YEARS. It's not even remotely entertaining anymore.

[Glorious Leader]

Serious question: they made lots of raids in Vanilla when they never expected the subscriber base to be that big. Then they made a lot of raids over the next 3 expansions without LFR. Other mmos make raids with less than 10% the revenue WoW gets. How is it possible that they wouldn't be able to afford to make raids without LFR? There's plenty of evidence that it's possible and that perhaps even good for the game.

When you think "afford" you're thinking of it purely in the monetary sense. That's important but raids cost so much more than simple.money. They take time and man power and resources. When the developers were building wow they spent many many years before hand which gave them a nice lead time. 10 years later that's all done and while money is important even more crucial is time. They can make raids and dungeons but you'd be waiting a whole mess of time I imagine.

[Gref]

There hasn't been an LFR thread for awhile, so I thought I would see what the community thinks.

Yay!!!

In my opinion ...

Yayayayyyy!!!

There hasn't been a lfr topic for a while now... what the actual fuck, how does this intro make any sense. Again I am amazed by another quality Jay post.

[MoanaLisa]

I find the fact that you're being tasked with defending lfr so amusing. When I stop and think about it yes I'd like them to remove lfr because I'd like them to forgo making raid content to make other stuff. Now we both recognize that LFR is what lets them make the content they want (lfr) but these folks seem to be under the impression that they can have their cake and eat it to so that leaves you in the position of defending lfr.

It passes the time. I'm between planes for another hour or so. Besides, it's true. If those devoted to raiding want to worry about the position of their favorite content in the game they can start doing that if and when they take LFR out. That won't be a good sign for raiding.

[Wildpantz]

Success as in letting any random scrub see content without effort.

Failure it made community die even more all though lfg started that lfr was just the nail in the coffin for community outside of a guild.

[Stonecloak]

I probably had a different opinion towards the end of Mop, but now in hindsite, I think they should have kept raid looking gear in LFR, too many people trying to fix things that aren't broken. Yea LFR had its problems, but it served a purpose, and there were probably wiser ways to curb the troll problem.

[Jaylock]

I find the fact that you're being tasked with defending lfr so amusing. When I stop and think about it yes I'd like them to remove lfr because I'd like them to forgo making raid content to make other stuff. Now we both recognize that LFR is what lets them make the content they want (lfr) but these folks seem to be under the impression that they can have their cake and eat it to so that leaves you in the position of defending lfr.

I find it amusing that you insist on removing LFR AND real raiding instances to only be replaced with ...???

What kind of content do you propose to replace raiding, since apparently in the fantasy world you live in, raiding isn't the main draw that brought millions of players to the game. If you take away raiding, the game turns into another TERA, and we both know how long that game lasted.

If they already develop raids AND dungeons AND other world content, why even have LFR at all?

[Dormie]

Oh look, this thread. If anyone wants a thread with lots of pages just make it with this title.


It's inherently flawed, so failure.

[Flurryfang]

LFR is a pure failure. Not as a system, but in synergy with the game. Raiding has been diminished with LFR, and has becomed every mans value. The end game was removed, and the reward of seeing the game, by being good at the game, was also removed. The game would have been better without the feature all in all.

On the other hand, i would have loved if they had made some actual LFR raids, where you only went as a LFR group. Having raids, which you could que up for, was an amazing idea. The problem was mixing the actual raids, with a queing system, which took out the new car smell of most raids.

[hyphnos]

It succeeded at exactly what the developers wanted: to shovel more people into "raiding" so that they can justify building the game around the part they like.

It fails at being fun and has drained the life out of the rest of the game by letting the devs turn everything into a damnable slot machine that is "successful" because they bribe people into doing it.

[Desparil]

Its not without flaws but more success then failure for sure.