Arms Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Mortal Combo allows you to use 2 MS, but what's the gain in that? Due to the change, every ability used has an equal chance of proccing Tactician - 0.65% of rage. While abilities have differing rage costs which means a slightly higher or lower chance to proc during that one GCD, it's important to look at the big picture. Arms isn't a completely GCD locked spec, and rage is often a bigger factor, especially where CS comes in.

True although it was always about pooling all the buffs into a single moment and Mortal Combo allows higher chance to proc Tactician during the CD's.
Even so it's an abysmal 3.25% =\ //devil's advocate

By the way napkin math shows that MS+Focused Rage has higher DPR than Slam w/o Trauma.
Since Tactician is about rage spent ( i.e. not on damaging abilities only ) maybe it'll be trap talent no longer?
And it does have synergy with Precise Strikes/Shattered Defenses.

Deadly Calm will take precedence with Dauntless/Anger Management/Zakajz +- Exec. Ring.

[Nightstalker]

Finally, while Trauma doesn't do anything specific for Tactician, that isn't the only aspect of the spec, and it really just doesn't have a lot of competition. Deadly Calm is definitely strong but it's pretty circumstantial, in that it's only really useful once during the Execute phase, whereas Trauma adds a noticeable amount of consistent damage.

Trauma is just for heavy AoE encounters where CS uptime is a given.

[Flacko]

WAT haste more priority than mastery as arms now wtf? ....

[Kaljurei]

True although it was always about pooling all the buffs into a single moment and Mortal Combo allows higher chance to proc Tactician during the CD's.
Even so it's an abysmal 3.25% =\ //devil's advocate

By the way napkin math shows that MS+Focused Rage has higher DPR than Slam w/o Trauma.
Since Tactician is about rage spent ( i.e. not on damaging abilities only ) maybe it'll be trap talent no longer?
And it does have synergy with Precise Strikes/Shattered Defenses.

Deadly Calm will take precedence with Dauntless/Anger Management/Zakajz +- Exec. Ring.

DPR, DPGCD, Tactician proc chance per GCD are very interrelated concepts. What's really important will be confirmed through sims. Let's wait for APLs before we disagree on what's really important.

Of course some people will complain if the scenario was that DPR or DPGCD was more important than Tactician proc chance per GCD, because it makes gameplay less fun, but that's sort of irrelevant in a competitive scenario.

[Nightstalker]

Well mastery was strong when it was completely overpowered in terms of scaling.

[Nition]

Err, is it just me or is bladestorm gone completely? Like its not baseline in my spellbook either. Its no longer in the spell list for arms on wowdb...

[Kaljurei]

Err, is it just me or is bladestorm gone completely? Like its not baseline in my spellbook either. Its no longer in the spell list for arms on wowdb...

If you took ravager, then it replaces bladestorm. Wowdb, no idea.

[Nition]

I've not taken ravager...

[Kaljurei]

I've not taken ravager...

I'm not in the beta so I cannot comment other than saying - make a macro for /cast Bladestorm and seeing if you do indeed cast Bladestorm.

Adding a #showtooltip on the beginning of the macro will show whether Bladestorm is available in your spellbook but simply not visible.

[Caargon]

Trauma is just for heavy AoE encounters where CS uptime is a given.

Trauma is for everything, actually. It's never not good in a given fight. Deadly calm is situational and most useful below 20%, titanic might has apparently been worked out to be a straight loss.

Awesome tactician change though. Actual proc chance still needs to be adjusted it seems, but not only does this incarnation eliminate the slam-spam, it makes overpower, rend and focused rage more attractive. All very good things.

[kimicate]

Err, is it just me or is bladestorm gone completely? Like its not baseline in my spellbook either. Its no longer in the spell list for arms on wowdb...

Wowdb points bladestorm as level 100 talent, but still baseline...

[Kaljurei]

Trauma is for everything, actually. It's never not good in a given fight. Deadly calm is situational and most useful below 20%, titanic might has apparently been worked out to be a straight loss.

Awesome tactician change though. Actual proc chance still needs to be adjusted it seems, but not only does this incarnation eliminate the slam-spam, it makes overpower, rend and focused rage more attractive. All very good things.

Even if it made Focused Rage more attractive, it's still a shit talent compared to the alternatives. But yeah, it's a great change.

[Nition]

Wowdb points bladestorm as level 100 talent, but still baseline...

Yup sorry, was looking at live not beta! Doh. :P
Regardless, still not seeing bladestorm in game (I'm playing on the pvp realm so maybe that's it?). Macro'ing a /cast Bladestorm does nothing.

[Kaljurei]

Yup sorry, was looking at live not beta! Doh. :P
Regardless, still not seeing bladestorm in game (I'm playing on the pvp realm so maybe that's it?). Macro'ing a /cast Bladestorm does nothing.

It's possible that the beta build didn't make it to the pvp servers. Try on the other ones.

[Nition]

It's possible that the beta build didn't make it to the pvp servers. Try on the other ones.

Well it did, all the other changes are in place. Just bladestorm is missing. The tooltip for ravager even says replaces bladestorm. Hopefully this is just a bug on my end/pvp server.

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Sorted, relogged and it was there. That was annoying/weird!

[Caargon]

Even if it made Focused Rage more attractive, it's still a shit talent compared to the alternatives. But yeah, it's a great change.

In For The Kill is obviously the go-to for raiding because execute, but for PvP at least Focused Rage should be pretty strong. You can stack it up while you're out of range, it gels well with shattered defenses, and now it can also trigger your tactician. Mortal combo remains cool in concept but doesn't play so nicely with the artifact.

[Deleted]

Err, is it just me or is bladestorm gone completely? Like its not baseline in my spellbook either. Its no longer in the spell list for arms on wowdb...

Its a bug. Change spec to Fury, and back to Arms. And bladestorm should apear

[Kaljurei]

In For The Kill is obviously the go-to for raiding because execute, but for PvP at least Focused Rage should be pretty strong. You can stack it up while you're out of range, it gels well with shattered defenses, and now it can also trigger your tactician. Mortal combo remains cool in concept but doesn't play so nicely with the artifact.

Because the artifact's trait for Mortal Strike is Shattered Defenses and Precise Strikes, both of which are burst alternatives which rely on CS which on a 45s CD. Tactician RNG with moderate levels of uptime on target make it difficult to predict burst, which is why Focused Rage is a better talent for PvP, although this is subjective. I mean you'd rather spend rage on Slam in that case to get a better CS window.

[Caargon]

I mean you'd rather spend rage on Slam in that case to get a better CS window.

Por que no los dos?

You stack up the buff, pool some rage, and punch them in the throat. It's PvP. DPS takes a backseat, 3-6 second burst is king. Hell, it also mixes very well with deadly calm.

[Archimtiros]

Well, if they used the same formulae as they did for Deadly Calm, then yeah it should work for Precise Strikes/Dauntless, but we'd have to look at spell data like you said to figure it out.

Like I said though, spell data doesn't work that way, even though it seems simpler. Spell data will have a flag for every individual ability that affects it or it affects, rather than use a blanket formula, precisely to deal with issues like this.

Does Collision still theorycraft? I haven't seen his posts in ages.

Not to speak for him, but Collision isn't big on forums. Like many, he enjoys theorycrafting from the problem solving perspective, so he'll say what he has to say, but doesn't want to get bogged down by all the questions, comments, arguments and random shitposting that comes along with it.

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True although it was always about pooling all the buffs into a single moment and Mortal Combo allows higher chance to proc Tactician during the CD's.
Even so it's an abysmal 3.25% =\ //devil's advocate

Our CD's are short enough that it's not a substansial difference. You're not going to pop those CDs without CS already being off cooldown, and Mortal Combo doesn't add an appreciably high enough chance for CS to reset within that time frame to make a difference. Meanwhile, from a damage perspective, Mortal Strike just isn't good enough in comparison to Slam or Overpower to warrant it's use.

By the way napkin math shows that MS+Focused Rage has higher DPR than Slam w/o Trauma.
Since Tactician is about rage spent ( i.e. not on damaging abilities only ) maybe it'll be trap talent no longer?
And it does have synergy with Precise Strikes/Shattered Defenses.

Focused Rage could be better now with the Tactician change, but it's not a question of comparing it to Trauma, it's a question of comparing it to In for the Kill, which it shares a tier with. Major downside to Focused Rage is it doesn't do anything appreciable for the Execute phase, and you're not going to make use of the damage boost when you're prioritizing Execute with Shattered Defenses over Mortal Strike. I'll take another look at it, but I'm still willing to bet that the talent is no good.

Deadly Calm will take precedence with Dauntless/Anger Management/Zakajz +- Exec. Ring.

Eh, Dauntless kind of undermines the Deadly Calm/AM combo, but this kind of thing depends more on fight mechanics than comparing spells in a vacuum. Also keep in mind that the Execute Ring is now Sudden Death as opposed to increased Execute threshold, which lowers it's usefulness considerably.

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Err, is it just me or is bladestorm gone completely? Like its not baseline in my spellbook either. Its no longer in the spell list for arms on wowdb...

It's a bug on the beta. Try relogging a couple times or make a new character.

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Trauma is just for heavy AoE encounters where CS uptime is a given.

Eh, trauma is just a flat damage boost period, whether it's heavy AoE or single target.