Obama Legacy

[Detritivores]

I don't start many (any?) threads, but as I sit here, mildly intoxicated and mourning that my Penguins couldn't close out the series, I'm watching Obama on Fallon's show, and I'm struck by something that I've often thought but never voiced.

That is that Obama came into office a progressive paragon, against both wars, against surveillance, a constitutional lawyer holding many of the positions that progressive folks hold. But he got into office and let us all down. Couldn't get a public option. Escalated the drone program. Extra-judicially killed AN AMERICAN CITIZEN. The list goes on. But what I was struck by watching him on Fallon tonight is that I still get the impression that at his core, he is a good guy and did the best he could.

To borrow a phrase from the man, let me be clear; this is a horrifying conclusion for me to reach. I agreed with essentially nothing that he did in the past 7 years. Yet I still find myself believing that he was a decent man who did the best he could with shit circumstances and I question if given what he knows, I wouldn't have made the same choices.

There are things I'm certain I'd have done differently. I'm quite confident for example that he conceded on the public option for entirely political (campaign financing) reasons. But it's the national security stuff that bugs me. He's prosecuted the War on Terror as aggressively as Bush and even Cheney could have possibly hoped for. He still hasn't managed to close Gitmo. Cut to Republicans pretending Democrats are still weak on security.

So what is his legacy? The most interesting question to me is how progressives like me interpret his presidency. He let us down, but I can't shake the idea that at the center of being president is unknowable circumstances that prevented him from implementing the dreams that 2008 Obama dreamed. Would Bernie have presidented much differently? He sounds like Obama circa 2008. Maybe he'd have been equally crushed once he got there. That or he's a phony. Queue Catcher in the Rye references. Queue the far right hordes coming to destroy me.

Still I assume there are some on this forum pondering the same questions.

[I Push Buttons]

The country is better now than when he took office, that's enough for me.

A president shouldn't be held to the standard of "keeping their campaign promises" because the president doesn't unilaterally make law in this country. I take those "promises" as their intention should they have the opportunity to pass legislation they desire, which is not the case the vast majority of the time.

Being upset they didn't keep their campaign promises is basically being upset that they didn't seize power, become a dictator, and impose their will unilaterally on the country... Its silly.

[Kallisto]

President Obama's legacy will likely be the equal rights for Marriage that really gained traction once he came out and spoke up for it.

As for other things I hope people will look back on his presidency and finally come to the conclusion that the office of president isn't that all powerful. Yes it is the most power held in one person but in the end they still need to have congress play ball. But when they don't everything just stalls.

[Detritivores]

The country is better now than when he took office, that's enough for me.

A president shouldn't be held to the standard of "keeping their campaign promises" because the president doesn't unilaterally make law in this country. I take those "promises" as their intention should they have the opportunity to pass legislation they desire, which is not the case the vast majority of the time.

Being upset they didn't keep their campaign promises is basically being upset that they didn't seize power, become a dictator, and impose their will unilaterally on the country... Its silly.

While I agree, I have to push back a little. He had a filibuster-proof senate majority and both houses. He could have done absolutely anything. New Deal 21st century edition. I don't agree with the interpretation that he couldn't have done all those things. He absolutely could have. I'm mostly disturbed by the question of why he didn't.

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President Obama's legacy will likely be the equal rights for Marriage that really gained traction once he came out and spoke up for it.

As for other things I hope people will look back on his presidency and finally come to the conclusion that the office of president isn't that all powerful. Yes it is the most power held in one person but in the end they still need to have congress play ball. But when they don't everything just stalls.

I agree. His terms will be characterized by the social progress that was made, but also noted as a time of great obstructionism.

[PC2]

His main legacy will be that he fundamentally changed the way Washington works. And that he never lied.

[vindicatorx]

I mean what do you want from the man? You know how our government works right? You know the president can't just wave his hand and make shit happen right? I mean hell he can't even get the lazy ass senate to ok his judge nomination cause they are a bunch of spoiled bitches who fight him on every possible thing they can. Then you have ole lyin Ted making Republican stop showing up for work until they get their way. Did you really think Obama had a chance in hell with all this bullshit going on?

[I Push Buttons]

While I agree, I have to push back a little. He had a filibuster-proof senate majority and both houses. He could have done absolutely anything. New Deal 21st century edition. I don't agree with the interpretation that he couldn't have done all those things. He absolutely could have. I'm mostly disturbed by the question of why he didn't.

Because he had those majorities on the ass end of the greatest economic crisis in nearly a century... Passing sweeping legislation at the same time as running huge deficits trying to recover from the recession could have ended terribly.

[Khadgar]

I'd take another 4 years of President Obama over Hilary or Trump in a heartbeat.

Plus he also unlocked the Assassinate Osama Bin Laden achievement

[Seefer]

The country is better now than when he took office, that's enough for me.

A president shouldn't be held to the standard of "keeping their campaign promises" because the president doesn't unilaterally make law in this country. I take those "promises" as their intention should they have the opportunity to pass legislation they desire, which is not the case the vast majority of the time.

Being upset they didn't keep their campaign promises is basically being upset that they didn't seize power, become a dictator, and impose their will unilaterally on the country... Its silly.

Pretty much this, not to mention being blocked by Republican Congress and them changing things to make him look bad (His healthcare, they put on that fine if you don't have insurance), plus I don't care who came after Bush they couldn't fix the shit hole he left this country in any better than Obama did, personally I think the Republicans were happy he won his terms because they just wanted to say "Ha ha, we had a young black man in office look at how he did!" watch what happens with Hilary if (when) she wins, she will suffer the same fate I think.

[THE Bigzoman]

[QUOTE=Detritivores;40800288]I don't start many (any?) threads, but as I sit here, mildly intoxicated and mourning that my Penguins couldn't close out the series, I'm watching Obama on Fallon's show, and I'm struck by something that I've often thought but never voiced.

That is that Obama came into office a progressive paragon, against both wars, against surveillance, a constitutional lawyer holding many of the positions that progressive folks hold. But he got into office and let us all down. Couldn't get a public option. Escalated the drone program. Extra


You're falling for a skilled politictian.

Obama, Reagan, and others like them could come to your house for dinner, take a shit on your table, fuck your wife/GF in front of you, and you'd still think about how great a guy he is and hope and wonder when he'll come for dinner again.

[Moon-Man]

The country is better now than when he took office, that's enough for me.

No it's not, in fact it may be worse. Not just him, the the previous too.

Trump is the last chance to true recovery of the "American Dream". Since it was demolished so long ago.

[McFuu]

I don't think we as a country are any better off than we were before he took office. Really we are better off in some ways and worse off in other ways.

As it goes for President Obama, I 100% believe that at his core he did what he could and what he thought was right. He put his foot in his mouth a couple of times with some stupid PR stunts that back fired horribly. But in general he did what he could.

[Stormspellz]

ACA
Bin ladan
gay marriage
greatest do nothing congress in history

[Detritivores]

I mean what do you want from the man? You know how our government works right? You know the president can't just wave his hand and make shit happen right? I mean hell he can't even get the lazy ass senate to ok his judge nomination cause they are a bunch of spoiled bitches who fight him on every possible thing they can. Then you have ole lyin Ted making Republican stop showing up for work until they get their way. Did you really think Obama had a chance in hell with all this bullshit going on?

You seem to be just hand-waving away those whole 2 years that he had a filibuster-proof majority. I'm talking about those years, just to be clear. Obviously, I know nothing could get done after that.

[Felya]

Buyers remorse followed by parting sorrow?

[Detritivores]

Because he had those majorities on the ass end of the greatest economic crisis in nearly a century... Passing sweeping legislation at the same time as running huge deficits trying to recover from the recession could have ended terribly.

Seems like the opportune time to pass sweeping legislation...

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ACA
Bin ladan
gay marriage
greatest do nothing congress in history

This is the real tl;dr of his presidency I agree. But I'm trying to get at what stopped him from being the progressive juggernaut that he won 2008 as.

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[QUOTE=The BANNzoman;40800572]

I don't start many (any?) threads, but as I sit here, mildly intoxicated and mourning that my Penguins couldn't close out the series, I'm watching Obama on Fallon's show, and I'm struck by something that I've often thought but never voiced.

That is that Obama came into office a progressive paragon, against both wars, against surveillance, a constitutional lawyer holding many of the positions that progressive folks hold. But he got into office and let us all down. Couldn't get a public option. Escalated the drone program. Extra


You're falling for a skilled politictian.

Obama, Reagan, and others like them could come to your house for dinner, take a shit on your table, fuck your wife/GF in front of you, and you'd still think about how great a guy he is and hope and wonder when he'll come for dinner again.

He is no doubt a skilled politician, but I'm asking to what end?. He has nothing to sell me any more. I'm merely looking back on his tenure and trying to understand how it went the way it went. Is you're assertion that he's a lying shit bag and never meant anything he said about health care, closing gitmo, etc? That seems unlikely. He's just people, after all.

[Felya]

Trump is the last chance to true recovery of the "American Dream". Since it was demolished so long ago.

Check corporate taxes now. Check them in 1977. Check Trump's proposed tax plan.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02corate.pdf

If you are under the impression America was great. Please realize that Trum's tax plan is following the exact trend that saw corporate taxes drop, coincide with such American staples as single income homes, booming manufacturing and the space race disappearing.

[May90]

I think people overestimate the influence a president has. A president is not a king, he has limited power and can only do so much; he can do very little, if, for example, the Congress keeps blocking his projects. He seemed like he really wanted to change many things, but actually getting a seat, I think, sobered him up fast, and he realized that some things he planned to do are not doable in the current political climate just by being a president. You try fighting a current for some time, but eventually you realize that you only can get anything done if you, instead, go along with the current, even if it doesn't quite match your desired destination.

It is the same objection I have against the argument that Bernie is the candidate that can change the current system, such as healthcare, welfare, etc. I doubt he can. If his plans do not align with the plans of other branches of power, then he won't get anything done. And that, I think, is a good thing. Too much power in the hands of one man is a recipe for disaster at some point. Imagine if, for example, Trump was allowed to actually do everything he tells he wants done... No, thanks!

[Detritivores]

I think people overestimate the influence a president has. A president is not a king, he has limited power and can only do so much; he can do very little, if, for example, the Congress keeps blocking his projects. He seemed like he really wanted to change many things, but actually getting a seat, I think, sobered him up fast, and he realized that some things he planned to do are not doable in the current political climate just by being a president. You try fighting a current for some time, but eventually you realize that you only can get anything done if you, instead, go along with the current, even if it doesn't quite match your desired destination.

It is the same objection I have against the argument that Bernie is the candidate that can change the current system, such as healthcare, welfare, etc. I doubt he can. If his plans do not align with the plans of other branches of power, then he won't get anything done. And that, I think, is a good thing. Too much power in the hands of one man is a recipe for disaster at some point. Imagine if, for example, Trump was allowed to actually do everything he tells he wants done... No, thanks!

I accept that reasoning for his last 6 years. But what about the first 2? And what about the decisions that he didn't need other branches for?

In the first 2 years he could have done literally anything. We could have had national health care if he decided we should. He could have passed essentially anything. But he didn't And I'm still wondering why.

Beyond that, he expanded the drone program, extra-judicially killed an american, got osama, failed to close gitmo, and did about every hawkish thing a GWB clone would have done. He didn't need any other branches to do any of these things.

Whether or not Bernie woud go the same way is an interesting thought experiment and one I'd like to see irl. If Bernie, went the same way, then I'd have no choice but to conclude that we are controlled by powerful bureaucrats who limit any real options for the people in power.

[stabetha]

"it's all Bush's fault" and "you're a racist"