warcraft finished at wrath

[Roamingstorm]

Based off a Ghostcrawler comment, the RTS genre is kinda dead at the moment. Outside of a few (like starcraft) you don't see any new ones coming out. Same for the MMO market. MOBA looks to be the new cool, so maybe we'll have to wait 10 years for things to come back around.

I don't think anything is dead, it's mainly the people running the show don't understand their consumers. Take for example the recent article about EA executives not wanting to do a WW1 game when DICE pushed it, mainly because not many people were familiar with WW1 and it was going against the norm of the sci-fi shooters going on.

A lot of it has to come down to the people in power not understanding the gaming industry and for the most part playing it safe with everything. Honestly it's why I give props recently to Blizzard and Gearbox for going out of the norm recently with Battleborn and Overwatch.

[Mad_Murdock]

Game genres never really die. A single good game in a specific genre, often starts an entire wave of that genre games. Just look at Warcraft/AoE, LoL, CoD4, etc.

Well, Dead is a little more relative here. Is the MMO genre dead? No, it's not put in the ground, never coming back dead. But just like like flip phones are still around, they are not what is hot on the market and where the money is at. Could Apple release a really great flip phone? Sure! Would it be able to compete against the IP8? NO.

I believe Blizzard has their finger on the pulse and the reason we don't have a WC4, is because they feel that it wouldn't be a good investment of their time and money. I'm not holding my breathe for a new Command and Conquer either. I think the MOBA market will have to run for a bit and folks get tired of it (much like I got tired of the FPS market) before the RTS\MMO jumps back into the lime light. How long that will be, I have no idea.

I don't think anything is dead, it's mainly the people running the show don't understand their consumers. Take for example the recent article about EA executives not wanting to do a WW1 game when DICE pushed it, mainly because not many people were familiar with WW1 and it was going against the norm of the sci-fi shooters going on.

Hmm, did you read the battlefield forums when BF1 was announced? There was (and probably still is) a lot of anger over it being a WW1 game. I think it's too easy to just say a company doesn't know their market. In EA's and Blizzard case, I think they understand it well enough to know it's not a sure thing. And with the huge budgets these days, they only want sure things.

[Zubacz]

Multiple sizes of the same format I will agree with being a problem, but not LFG by any means.
Look at how in early wrath players were using a pre-cursor of Gearscore, an addon called InventoryOnPar.
That behaviour is exactly what makes LFG etc necessary.
The more barriers are raised, the more those tools become necessary.

According to the community the game is "dead" every expansion, that is absolutely is going under or F2P "soon".
Some people enjoy doom and gloom.

I wrote about the impact on the community. Realm reputation, friend lists full of people you met in heroics, good pug leaders, ninjas... how you behaved and how well you played in any group mattered, so you put in effort. LFG took away that responsibility, hence, in my opinion, destroying the community.
WoW always was and still is by far the best MMO, but I think the game have been even more successful if it had never introduced the mechanics which allow people to be assholes with no repercussions.

[Madeupname999]

I did stop caring about the bosses i killed after Wrath of the lich king.

Killing the Lich King was the only time i ever screamed in vent over killing a boss cause it really felt like i finished a great odyssey that i started when i first played Warcraft 3.

Every other boss afterwards have meant nothing to me emotion wise.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Some people argue Star Wars died beyond the original trilogy. Others think the "Legends" part of the universe is the real one and the newer stuff isn't. Others refuse to acknowledge the prequels. People that aren't invested beyond it being entertainment just let it roll.

But everyone is allowed to have their opinion. But my opinion is things are only dead when the owner of the IP simply stops making product for it and doesn't eventually sell that IP to someone else to continue the product. Pretty much forever. As far as I am concerned if Blizzard is making Warcraft content or decides to sell it and allow someone else to make product for it the IP is still alive and kicking. Even if I do not like the current iteration.

[MrExcelion]

Some people argue Star Wars died beyond the original trilogy. Others think the "Legends" part of the universe is the real one and the newer stuff isn't. Others refuse to acknowledge the prequels. People that aren't invested beyond it being entertainment just let it roll.

But everyone is allowed to have their opinion. But my opinion is things are only dead when the owner of the IP simply stops making product for it and doesn't eventually sell that IP to someone else to continue the product. Pretty much forever. As far as I am concerned if Blizzard is making Warcraft content or decides to sell it and allow someone else to make product for it the IP is still alive and kicking. Even if I do not like the current iteration.

Great analogy. Yeah, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Even though it's a MMO, some people do like having a sense of finality or closure (like, hey, i beat this!)

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Great analogy. Yeah, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Even though it's a MMO, some people do like having a sense of finality or closure (like, hey, i beat this!)

Wrath did make me feel like I finally finished WC3. Because the story of that game kind of hung at the end and it completed very nicely at the end of Wrath. Which of course I kind of see WC3 as a lot of peoples main experince in Warcraft until WoW came along. So I do for sure understand why some people feel that.

[Super Kami Dende]

Frozen throne "ended"(Lich King still lives though) at Wrath. Stories from WC 1/2/3 are still continuing.

[Deleted]

In terms of story, probably but gameplay? The stuff people complain about today started in Wrath for the most part.

[Magnagarde]

The immersion and good storytelling died with the Lich King. It feels like they've struggled with ideas ever since the Lich King was taken out of the picture. Deathwing was a decent villain aswell and someone very relatable when we talk about lore, but ever since then its been a big struggle to come up with twisted plots and villains that actually made the whole story a lot more ridiculous.

The immersion and proper storytelling is gone. The fact that they catered to the Asian market with Pandaria and the fact that they make endings like WoD speak in favour of this. They are unable to come up with characters and stories that will have the same quality as the ones we saw get a foundation in WC3. The only few characters I believe have developed a proper story/are developing one are Sylvannas and Jaina.

They have now introduced artifact weapons which represent some of the most epic and most important items in the Warcraft universe. They are also the personal weapons of some pretty big characters. Now that everyone will wield them for another two years and now that everyone will be a lass leader, the immersion will suffer even more. They could've been releasing 2 or 3 of these items per future expansion as the most notable, key items within that expansion, but instead they've just taken all of them and made them available to everyone by default. They've mistaken the players' outcry for more content with a massive lore yardsale which is what I see Legion as; an attempt to look creative by churning away at all these storylines simultaneously, hoping that players will like it.

[Flurryfang]

Well, Dead is a little more relative here. Is the MMO genre dead? No, it's not put in the ground, never coming back dead. But just like like flip phones are still around, they are not what is hot on the market and where the money is at. Could Apple release a really great flip phone? Sure! Would it be able to compete against the IP8? NO.

I believe Blizzard has their finger on the pulse and the reason we don't have a WC4, is because they feel that it wouldn't be a good investment of their time and money. I'm not holding my breathe for a new Command and Conquer either. I think the MOBA market will have to run for a bit and folks get tired of it (much like I got tired of the FPS market) before the RTS\MMO jumps back into the lime light. How long that will be, I have no idea.



Hmm, did you read the battlefield forums when BF1 was announced? There was (and probably still is) a lot of anger over it being a WW1 game. I think it's too easy to just say a company doesn't know their market. In EA's and Blizzard case, I think they understand it well enough to know it's not a sure thing. And with the huge budgets these days, they only want sure things.

..... First of all, really bad argument. You can't compare a phone to a game, since we are talking about tech advancements. I would bet you, that if somebody made a new flip phone, which did not break like the old phones, and who worked with some of the advancements, that the newer phones has, people would buy the shit out of it. All it requires is being the new hot thing, with great tech.

The same way it is with games. You can't think of C&C as in the old games, because they are very outdated. If somebody released a C&C game, with the same amount of content as Red Alert 2 or Generals and with modern graphics and mechanics, it would be a best seller in no time. The RTS community is so drained atm, that people are starting to play AoE 2 again ffs. They have a boom atm, not because the game is bringing that much new content, but because its the best that there is. Again, i bet, that if anybody brings a new build-a-base game to the PC, which have content and graphics/ being a good game, then it would be a huge succes.

[Bathory]

Maybe it ended for them, but it didn't end for me. I was well aware of Deathwing, the aspects and everything that came after WOTLK, so I was incredibly excited to dive into more lore from the Blizzard team. Arthas was great, WOTLK was my favorite xpac, but it absolutely did not end there for a long time fan of the lore like myself.

[Seefer]

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...%20edition.PDF



Wow, being both cocky and wrong. Sargeras was a dead Daemonlord in War2. Gul'dan was after his tomb to claim the ultimate power for himself. Medivh was corrupted by the Twisting Nether and befriended demons - although not Sargeras, nor the Burning legion, since one was dead and one didn't exist.



Yes, the Tomb of Sargeras was in WarCraft 2, but it was just a Tomb of a dead daemonlord, and what Gul'Dan was after. Burning legion didn't exist. Medivh opened the portal because he wanted Azeroths destruction.

. Magus[9][10][11] or Magna[12] Medivh was the last Guardian of Tirisfal, an ancient line of protectors bestowed with great powers to do battle with the agents of the Burning Legion. However, he was corrupted even before birth and possessed by the spirit of the demonlord Sargeras who used Medivh in his plan to conquer Azeroth. Medivh contacted the orcish warlock, Gul'dan, and together they opened the Dark Portal, which allowed the Burning Legion to begin its destruction of Azeroth. He was slain shortly after by a party led by one of his friends, Lothar.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I can totally see where people are coming from, having played WC3 and made Arthas what he is. They were given a reason to care about his story, witnessing his atrocities first hand by helping him carry them out.
I also think they're missing a far bigger picture, and I'm happy enjoying that, going on to fight bigger and badder bad guys, stopping the Legion, the Void Lords, and whatever else they care to throw at us.
We don't all have to agree on these things. That's fine. If their story ended there, then fair enough.

[Dungo]

Yes, he missed out on such great things as "lets revive dead people" the expansion and "mists of stuff thats never been mentioned before" or Cata and its Deathwing who does nothing.

MoP had a much, much better story than Wrath or fucking TBC ever did

[Soeroah]

Wrath was certainly closure to the cliffhanger the RTS series left off on, but it's definitely not the "end" of Warcraft.

[Radaney]

But the main characters are still here...Plus they seem pretty competent at building more characters anyway. Anduin, Wrathion and Garrosh are all pretty cool well built characters and were built outside of RTS Warcraft.

[Mad_Murdock]

..... First of all, really bad argument. You can't compare a phone to a game, since we are talking about tech advancements. I would bet you, that if somebody made a new flip phone, which did not break like the old phones, and who worked with some of the advancements, that the newer phones has, people would buy the shit out of it. All it requires is being the new hot thing, with great tech

I kinda thought that's what I implied when I said "If Apple made" I implying that Apple would cook all the new high tech into the flip phone that they cook into the IP8. Would their be a niche market for it? Sure. Would it sell equal to or better than an iphone of the same generation? No, because big screen smart phones are the "in thing"

Again, the key here is I'm not arguing there is no market, only that the there isn't enough market to attract the power players. Which could be a good thing. As it allows the Indie players to get in, and with lower expectations, it will probably be easier for them to make a hit.

I agree that if someone built the best game ever, it would sell well. The challenge seems to be getting someone to build that game, seeing how most games are coming out half baked. Here is my bet, there will be no Warcraft4 RTS for at least 5-8 years, if ever. Personally I think WoW would have to die off to about 1 million subs, before they would spend the resources to make another Warcraft RTS and my 2nd bet is Blizzard doesn't believe there is enough of a market for a WC4 RTS which is why they haven't released one already.

[Magnagarde]

What they should do is perhaps make another RTS game to prepare players for what is going to happen in future expansions. The RTS could cover what happened with the draenei on the planets of Argus and Draenor in a way that makes players immerse into it and perhaps even something that would happen on present-day Outland and/or Northrend(ie Bolvar's struggle as the new Lich King and how he got through it ever since he became the new Lich King, a parallel Legion invasion that is happening on Outland as players defend Azeroth). Just because TBC and WotLK finished doesn't mean that they should never revisit these continents and never revamp them for new content.

This would not only prepare them for the upcoming expansions, but it would also make their storytelling be unaffected by various faction/class/conent balancing issues that they face in a MMO.

[leigonlord]

Chen was a 5min easter egg in Warcraft....

Just saying.

chen was a (optional) party member for basically the entirety of the bonus campaign