You know what worries me more than anything else in the West these days?

[Draco-Onis]

And if Democrats had their way they would also try take away other people's freedoms. Both sides have an authoritarian problem.

You mean like banning all Muslims rounding them out, persecuting people for going to the wrong bathrooms, send women who commit abortions to jail. Do you mean those kinds of freedoms?

[BuckSparkles]

Yea that won't happen because if the culture shifted to the point Christians were treated like Muslims, the left would take up the christian cause as well. The reason democrats care about muslims is people like yourself go around demonizing all American Muslims based on outliers. The thing you fear happening to you is what you are doing to muslims.

But why is it fair for democrats to demonize all gun owners based on outliers then?

[PC2]

Is either scenario something that should make anyone want to vote for him? He's either disingenuous about what he'll do (AKA, he won't keep his promises), or he's pro-discrimination against the LGBT community. Neither are good things.

Most people vote based on the overall economy and jobs, I highly doubt LGBT sentiment is a factor for most voters.

[BuckSparkles]

You mean like banning all Muslims rounding them out, persecuting people for going to the wrong bathrooms, send women who commit abortions to jail. Do you mean those kinds of freedoms?

Trump would ban people from troubled muslim nations. He never said anything about Muslims who already are living here. You -should- go to the correct bathroom, and the abortion question was such a gotcha question that has no relevance because it suggested if abortion became illegal, which it never will, do you punish somebody who breaks the law, which the natural reaction to somebody who obeys the law should be yes.

Nice try though.

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Is either scenario something that should make anyone want to vote for him? He's either disingenuous about what he'll do (AKA, he won't keep his promises), or he's pro-discrimination against the LGBT community. Neither are good things.

Obama certainly didn't keep many of his promises and people still like him. It's typical politician talk. And the second part is not universal.

[Moralgy]

But why is it fair for democrats to demonize all gun owners based on outliers then?

It isn't, which is one of the main issues I have with democrats, I just have a choice between the party that will put into law things that screw over my life and can easily make it past the supreme court cause states rights or the party that wants to enact silly laws that won't make it past the supreme court.

If republicans would calm their tits with being dicks to LGBT people and Muslims, they would be so much better off.

[BuckSparkles]

Be honest: Do you really think they could be if Republicans had their way and could decide?

I think it would be left to the states to decide, which might not be every bodies cup of tea, but it isn't the worst that could happen.

[Deleted]

To OP: all (past and current) highly developed civilisations have divided societies, since only highly developed civilisations give place to different opinions/visions and people have very different thoughts/views by default (they can even argue over facts... so i don't think that scientific developtment can solve this issue shortly). Btw it is an old problem, even Socrates said that in a not too primitive society one has to be loyal to smaller groups than the state. Groups that have different interests (often different ones from the state's) and therefore rival among them. Non to mention that several problems simply don't have a "to go" solution and real life is full with loss-loss situations - people find it hard to accept decisions that only have negative effects. So i don't think that divided societies are bad or "sick", it is rather a sign of their developed nature. Centralised and uniform societies are more scary... even if sometimes it seems hard to live with all those "idiots" in a liberal and therefore divided society

[BuckSparkles]

I don't know if anyone knows, including Trump, what he'll actually do when he's in office. But it's a concern (and frankly could concern everyone left or right).

I admit it is a concern. Mystery is always a concern.

But I know what we will get with Clinton, and that scares the hell out of me. Hence why I will take the risk of mystery.

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It isn't, which is one of the main issues I have with democrats, I just have a choice between the party that will put into law things that screw over my life and can easily make it past the supreme court cause states rights or the party that wants to enact silly laws that won't make it past the supreme court.

If republicans would calm their tits with being dicks to LGBT people and Muslims, they would be so much better off.

Fair enough. Maybe they could calm down about LGBT folks, but I doubt anybody will stop being suspicious towards Muslims as long as these terrorist attacks continue to happen in the name of the Islamic faith.

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I can find the laws, but you can start explaining this article first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_e..._United_States

That seems out of date. Good luck trying to discriminate against somebody today based on sexual orientation and get away with it. Before you know it every LGBT rights group would be up your ass (no pun intended) trying to get your company shut down and your names forever dishonored.

I am not buying it.

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Then you don't understand what makes this country great. I'll go with spoiled...

He was on the FBI watch list, yet was still able to purchase guns legally. Something that you can read on Trump's site, as something criminals are "not stupid enouph" to do.]

We have different definitions of what makes America a solid nation. You think it is the immigrants, I think it is American Values and traditions.

And why the hell would somebody on the FBI watch list be allowed to have any firearm? Even -I- am confused about that.

However, even if they were not allowed to have any firearm, they would still get it anyway. Hence my problem with gun control laws.

[Azadina]

That seems out of date. Good luck trying to discriminate against somebody today based on sexual orientation and get away with it. Before you know it every LGBT rights group would be up your ass (no pun intended) trying to get your company shut down and your names forever dishonored.

I am not buying it.

I'm not buying that handwaving of the issues.

How about this article http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0060ccda2a7a9

How do you explain the bills?

[Lenonis]

Good luck trying to discriminate against somebody today based on sexual orientation and get away with it. Before you know it every LGBT rights group would be up your ass (no pun intended) trying to get your company shut down and your names forever dishonored.

I am not buying it.

Discrimination still happens, whether it's from a cab driver, employer, or just out on the street. Sometimes it is blatant and shocking sometimes it is extremely subtle.

But really -- this is just a hair to close to "hey we live in a post racial America" for my liking. It should just be OBVIOUS based on what little we do see on the news that anti-gay actions are still a thing in society.

Not sure why you'd state "I am not buying it." Seems rather obvious to me that it still happens.

[BuckSparkles]

I'm not buying that handwaving of the issues.

How about this article http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0060ccda2a7a9

How do you explain the bills?

Can I link you a fox news article? No? So why are you wasting my time with Huffington post. To throw you some meat, I doubt many of those bills would pass anything.

Do you know how many crazy bills get created on both sides? Most don't pass.

[Lenonis]

I think it is American Values and traditions.

That's a phrase without substance these days.

Which are you talking about? Judeo-Christian values? Values of hard work yielding prosperity? Values of openness to immigration (give me your tired, your weary, your poor), values of equality and inclusion?

I mean, you can take that phrase and make whatever you want out of it.

[BuckSparkles]

Discrimination still happens, whether it's from a cab driver, employer, or just out on the street. Sometimes it is blatant and shocking sometimes it is extremely subtle.

But really -- this is just a hair to close to "hey we live in a post racial America" for my liking. It should just be OBVIOUS based on what little we do see on the news that anti-gay actions are still a thing in society.

Not sure why you'd state "I am not buying it." Seems rather obvious to me that it still happens.

I don't buy it because of the environment we live in. Discriminate against any protected class? Good luck with that with your business or name still intact after the fury of PCness wrecks your life.

[Lenonis]

I don't buy it because of the environment we live in. Discriminate against any protected class? Good luck with that with your business or name still intact after the fury of PCness wrecks your life.

So you believe that no discrimination happens?

[Azadina]

Can I link you a fox news article? No? So why are you wasting my time with Huffington post. To throw you some meat, I doubt many of those bills would pass anything.

Do you know how many crazy bills get created on both sides? Most don't pass.

Yes infact. https://www.aclu.org/lgbt-nondiscrim...across-country

Now stop handwaving and explain each one that doesn't have status of "dead" on that site.

Especially the ones with status of "became law" Explain. So it goes both ways, stop wasting my time with your attempt at ignorance, and address the problems I've pointed to you.

[BuckSparkles]

That's a phrase without substance these days.

Which are you talking about? Judeo-Christian values? Values of hard work yielding prosperity? Values of openness to immigration (give me your tired, your weary, your poor), values of equality and inclusion?

I mean, you can take that phrase and make whatever you want out of it.

Suppose that is true. You focus on different elements than I do. I think it's more based on judeo-christian values with hardwork = prosperity with immigration being icing on the cake.

[PC2]

So you believe that no discrimination happens?

None that goes unpunished. We explicitly have anti-discrimination laws.

[BuckSparkles]

So you believe that no discrimination happens?

I think any discrimination that happens would be in very small towns or in public. I don't exactly think 99% of companies would dare risk any of that.

[Lenonis]

None that goes unpunished. We explicitly have anti-discrimination laws.

Which people are actively trying to repeal or allow exceptions to. (Also not what I asked)

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I think any discrimination that happens would be in very small towns or in public. I don't exactly think 99% of companies would dare risk any of that.

So what do you think would happen if anti-discrimination laws were repealed and/or exemptions were allowed? You just said that discrimination still happens, even though illegal in several places.

This is kind of like the free market argument -- "Companies wouldn't do anything bad because people would know about shut it down." Well, after the fact sure, but the damage was already done.

[PC2]

Which people are actively trying to repeal or allow exceptions to. (Also not what I asked)

Yes and there are leftist authoritarians trying to impose their ideology into law as well, but they don't represent everyone that is left of center.