[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Vanyali]

I don't know, man. I feel like refunding 30 fury would've been a better change. Half? Just feels too drastic. Especially since our other abilities don't even compare in damage, in their current state.

We'll see. It was far too good now; reducing it in half brings a crit to 50% of a CS. 75% would likely still be too high with high crit amounts.

[Soulfròst]

I'm noticing a trend in all betas, when their classes are so overpowered its good, but once tuning hits to get them in a normal state - the class isn't worth playing anymore.
I think a lot of people need to chill out a bit and see how it is once tuning is close to finished. If stuff is weak, it gets buffed and if it is strong, it gets nerfed. The goal is you do an estimated number of damage. You should look at the level of fun the class is.

Yes it lacks self healing, yes it lacks this and that - it does have the best mobility, it does have the "oomph" factor of being a DH. If your Demons Bite did 1,5million hits - would it be fun? You betcha it would cos its a big crit, but is it FUN to play? No, it really isn't to just press 1 button.
Try to look a how it plays, Vanyali just explained its AoE damage - look if that is fun to do, if it isn't then ignore numbers. I don't know why people get so stuck on numbers and especially in a beta BEFORE the tuning had started.

Yes I know its fun to do interesting numbers, but if that is your primary goal then you don't care what class it is. If you care that its fun to play, then you wont care about its numbers.
World class mythic raiders? Stack what's best, ignore everything else.

Anything below? man play whatever you want, you doing 60k or 50k DPS is not the reason you're wiping and not killing X.

People want to play a fun class and also deal good damage, competitive damage. Nobody likes feeling like the weak link of the group, even if they're having fun with the class. Except maybe @Unanilnomen. [emoji14]

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[Qlix]

People want to play a fun class and also deal good damage, competitive damage. Nobody likes feeling like the weak link of the group, even if they're having fun with the class. Except maybe @Unanilnomen. [emoji14]

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Enhance was fun... REAAAAAALLY fun. But it was barely beating tanks early WoD. No one likes that.

[FobManX]

From what I've been reading(I'm not on beta)DH damage was pretty insane, so it makes sense that they're getting nerfed some.

I wonder with Blade Dance/First Blood getting buffed if that means we take that over Felrush. I like the idea of another mobility ability/resource generator.

[Soulfròst]

We'll see. It was far too good now; reducing it in half brings a crit to 50% of a CS. 75% would likely still be too high with high crit amounts.

Well, I just did the math. Assume you have 130 fury from the artifact. With 20 refunded, starting from full fury, you'd get a max of 5 consecutive Chaos Strikes, if the first 4 crit.

At 30 refunded, starting from max fury, still assuming you have 130 fury from artifact, you'd have up to 10 consecutive Chaos Strikes, assuming the first 9 crit.

I feel the second scenario would be more fun because it's highly unlikely that all 10 strikes would crit, meaning the moments where you do get those 10 would feel epic. At least to me.

But I suppose the 20 refund is... Acceptable. Just not nearly as fun.

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[ChakanDH]

Well, I just did the math. Assume you have 130 fury from the artifact. With 20 refunded, starting from full fury, you'd get a max of 5 consecutive Chaos Strikes, if the first 4 crit.

At 30 refunded, starting from max fury, still assuming you have 130 fury from artifact, you'd have up to 10 consecutive Chaos Strikes, assuming the first 9 crit.

I feel the second scenario would be more fun because it's highly unlikely that all 10 strikes would crit, meaning the moments where you do get those 10 would feel epic. At least to me.

But I suppose the 20 refund is... Acceptable. Just not nearly as fun.

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It opens up other area's for buffs though, like they have done with first blood/blade dance. If we end up being weak sauce after this change then perhaps they can increase the base damage of demons bite, or bring eye beam back up some more. Any way you look at it, it means chaos strike isn't the be all and end all that it once was and we can get some more variety to our rotation.

Edit - I would actually love to see @Kaedis thoughts on the changes, his theorycrafting input has been invaluable as of late. Namely, would the change now mean that builds prioritizing other stats be viable now?

[Soulfròst]

It opens up other area's for buffs though, like they have done with first blood/blade dance. If we end up being weak sauce after this change then perhaps they can increase the base damage of demons bite, or bring eye beam back up some more. Any way you look at it, it means chaos strike isn't the be all and end all that it once was and we can get some more variety to our rotation.

Agreed. Let's hope they actually do that other part, though. Can't tell you how many times they reduced one thing and didn't bother bringing other things up to compensate for it, with all classes.

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[Qlix]

It doesnt feel bad at all right now with the nerf.

[Soulfròst]

It doesnt feel bad at all right now with the nerf.

Good to hear. Can't play til after class. :'(

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[Drahkais]

Well, right now I can hardly fit a Demonic window full of Annihilations. The change to how it refunds Fury doesn't feel good at all.

[Qlix]

I mean, personal opinion here, but i really dont think we were meant to have a full demonic window dedicated to annihilation. But i mean at 105 i really dont even notice the loss of fury. It has a nice flow to it. feels good to me.

[Forde]

God, I really want Blade Dance and First Blood to be viable single target. But the sacrifice of Felblade when paired with momentum is such a blow.

[BiggestNoob]

It was overpowered; it doesn't need compensation

It wasn't overpowered, it was just bad design.

[Vanyali]

It wasn't overpowered, it was just bad design.

Eh. Different words, same result.

[Infective]

Eh. Different words, same result.

Same result is the problem. Overpowered needs tweaked. Bad design needs redesigned, not tweaked.

[Soulfròst]

The blade dance / first blood change, on paper, seems lackluster like it'll barely make a difference. Does it?

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[Qlix]

I mean its not bad. I dont even notice it. I mean i NOTICE CS spam. This just feels normal currently.

[Soulfròst]

Same result is the problem. Overpowered needs tweaked. Bad design needs redesigned, not tweaked.

Have to agree here.

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[Vanyali]

Same result is the problem. Overpowered needs tweaked. Bad design needs redesigned, not tweaked.

It depends what their intent is; if their intent is to make critting an integral part of the spec (ie, fire mages) a 50% refund will fulfil that intent perfectly in all likelihood.

[Drahkais]

Doesn't feel bad to play overall, but I disagree with Annihilation behaving differently than Chaos Strike.