Resto Druid - Legion Talents

[Nevcairiel]

The first trait, the artifact ability itself, is now free and not counted towards the level, so it went from 35 to 34 in total.

[tein]

Thanks for the answer) It is really a good change.

[thilicen]

Anyone tried resto in PvP? How do you prefer to play in terms of talents / pvp talents / traits and stat prio? From what I see in calculators resto looks like it could be one hell of a fun-to-play PvP spec.

[Zerxes]

Prior to the changes when they shuffled the tree and nerf batted us I was actually starting to cheer up about the class. I won't be maining anything else but this is dissapointing. Wish they would answer us on their own feedback forums.

Maybe we need to start a massive petition. get 250k signatures like the private server did, haha.

[theburned]

Prior to the changes when they shuffled the tree and nerf batted us I was actually starting to cheer up about the class. I won't be maining anything else but this is dissapointing. Wish they would answer us on their own feedback forums.

Maybe we need to start a massive petition. get 250k signatures like the private server did, haha.

To me it just seems like they tried something didn't like it and went back to an earlier build and applied some suggested changes to it, we are far from a final build, and while they are not responding directly we are being heard, "mastery capped at 3 stacks tooltip." got a response within hours or even minutes of demand for it, Prosperity getting a 5 sec cd reduction. Cenarion ward buff etc. It leaves it quite obvious that they are getting feedback and listening to it, but have certain things they are pretty adamant about, such as the mastery.

[Tiberria]

So, while there were no datamined co-efficient changes, they definitely buffed the healing of both Rejuv and WG by about 5.5% in this build. It's not a gear/profile change either, because other spells (Healing Touch, Efflo, Swiftmend, etc.) did not change at all from where they were last build.

[theburned]

So, while there were no datamined co-efficient changes, they definitely buffed the healing of both Rejuv and WG by about 5.5% in this build. It's not a gear/profile change either, because other spells (Healing Touch, Efflo, Swiftmend, etc.) did not change at all from where they were last build.

just for safety are you sure you didnt gain a 5% haste buff from something like "blessing of malorne"?

[Tiberria]

just for safety are you sure you didnt gain a 5% haste buff from something like "blessing of malorne"?

Nope - no buffs at all. Plus, even if it was a haste buff, it wouldn't explain why the healing of Efflo is exactly the same - whereas WG and Rejuv have been buffed. It also appears that Cenarion Ward is about 7% stronger too than I had it recorded as last build.

[stormgust]

To me it just seems like they tried something didn't like it and went back to an earlier build and applied some suggested changes to it, we are far from a final build,

PTR is going up, so we're actually more or less final now baring some number tuning.

and while they are not responding directly we are being heard, "mastery capped at 3 stacks tooltip." got a response within hours or even minutes of demand for it,

If it made it into a beta build, it was more than just "we're still considering". They just dropped it because the arguments raised were convincing, thoug to be honest, everything we have now was raised as early as last december (both balancing problems, and how some solutions would not work). Now we're waiting for a last minute solution, and if it isn't a hardcap (or diminishing) the way they're going for is to artifically reduce the amount of HoTstacks paired with a nerf to basemastery. By the way, I'd say 4.8% is actually significantly too low, because compared to any other healer, we don't even get equal benefit until we ONLY heal targets with >= 2 HoTs, which is absurd, as the average in raids is somewhere around 1.4 at best (ignoring the tank for the average, because our direct heals are tuned for the higher HoT count, so base here isn't zero, but two or even three on low mastery )

Prosperity getting a 5 sec cd reduction. Cenarion ward buff etc.

Took them 7 months, during which other specs got considerably more, and more torough responses and changes. We're still stack with a garbage called Abundance, which has been pointed out to hardcap well too early to ever be competitive.

It leaves it quite obvious that they are getting feedback and listening to it, but have certain things they are pretty adamant about, such as the mastery.

They're not listening. If they did they'd have tried several ways to fix mastery (and some of the awful talents we still have) over the curse of the alpha or beta and opted for the best one (which could have included: scrap it).

[theburned]

Nope - no buffs at all. Plus, even if it was a haste buff, it wouldn't explain why the healing of Efflo is exactly the same - whereas WG and Rejuv have been buffed. It also appears that Cenarion Ward is about 7% stronger too than I had it recorded as last build.

It does explain exactly those conditions, CW being stronger, aswell as rejuv + WG and hot component of LB, efflo should only have faster ticks.

[Tiberria]

Now that character copies are up on the PTR, we can get a better sense of how our spells will play out at 100 when 7.0 goes live.

On live, I have 35% mastery - and that is basically 35% added healing to every spell. With the same gear on the PTR, I have 15% mastery. That means that I will only exceed the mastery healing gain on live on 3+ HoT targets when the pre-patch launches. Obviously, our numbers at 100 are going to go waaaay down from that alone, because I suspect we are going to average closer to ~1.5 mastery stacks on raid healing targets. The mastery factor alone is going to be about a 15-20% nerf over the top over and above the baseline nerfs that everyone is getting from multistrike being removed, etc.

Also, the base healing of every spell is lower on the PTR than it is on live. Stuff like Rejuv, Wild Growth, etc is 10-15% weaker. Healing Touch and Regrowth are closer to 40% weaker than they are on live. The only spell with a higher base healing amount is Swiftmend (about 25% higher), but that's expected given that it has twice the CD.

Yes, I know that a lot of this stuff is tied into artifact bonuses, etc., but I still strongly suspect that either our co-efficients are currently too low in beta, or that at minimum, we are going to end up with a numbers problem at 100 when 7.0 hits to the point they will need to buff them somehow.

In comparison, when I copy my Shaman over, I go from 97% mastery on live to 92% mastery on the PTR - the only difference is the removal of the 5% mastery affinity. Other healers are not literally losing 50% of their mastery healing with the 7.0 changes; it's going to result in us needing a huge buff to probably not be terrible for even HFC farm.

- - - Updated - - -

It does explain exactly those conditions, CW being stronger, aswell as rejuv + WG and hot component of LB, efflo should only have faster ticks.

There was no change to the tick rate of Efflo - at least unless the change was too small to be detectable in the UI (UI only shows the rate rounded to the nearest 1/10 of a second). The total Efflo healing was identical to where I had it the previous build. Also, Lifebloom's healing did not change over the previous build, and that would have changed if I had a random haste buff on me.

I think they did some kind of stealth throughput adjustment to stuff (and who knows what they changed for other spells or healing specs) with this build.

[theburned]

There was no change to the tick rate of Efflo - at least unless the change was too small to be detectable in the UI (UI only shows the rate rounded to the nearest 1/10 of a second). The total Efflo healing was identical to where I had it the previous build. Also, Lifebloom's healing did not change over the previous build, and that would have changed if I had a random haste buff on me.

I think they did some kind of stealth throughput adjustment to stuff (and who knows what they changed for other spells or healing specs) with this build.

There was some tooltip issues prior to this build though, which seemed to affect rejuvs tooltip with haste at least, could remove my ring with haste on it without changing rejuvs value etc. might be the difference.

[drooish]

Those adjustments are made in the below. I also added 10% of the mana cost and throughput of Serenity to Heal and Flash Heal (because each cast reduces the CD by 10%) and 12% of the mana cost and throughput of Sanctify to Prayer of Healing (because each PoH cast cuts 12% of the CD off Serenity).

At least this puts baseline WG marginally about Rejuv in terms of HPM, but on a class to class basis, our spells still just look really weak to me.

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This chart is useless, tool tips factor in stats like haste and every one has different values for that. You needed to do this by spell power not healing. Also comparing classes by spells is useless as well.

[Tiberria]

This chart is useless, tool tips factor in stats like haste and every one has different values for that. You needed to do this by spell power not healing. Also comparing classes by spells is useless as well.

Sure - every one has different levels of haste, crit, etc - but the reality is that every one has about the same amount of secondary stats, and the variance in value across secondary stats from an overall perspective is not all that great. If anything, Druids likely gain less total value from secondaries than most classes because of the weakness of our mastery in raid environment.

Yes, comparing spells by classes in a vacuum is useless, but when you see situations like our single target being behind every other class, our AoE being behind every other class, and our signature HoT being weaker throughput than things like Riptide and Renewing Mist, it develops an overall trend. At any rate, we will see what raid testing results tomorrow bring us.

[Torty]

We also happen to scale from Haste better than any other healer spec except for Disc.

[Tiberria]

We also happen to scale from Haste better than any other healer spec except for Disc.

But we generally scale poorer with Crit than almost any healing spec. Shaman have Resurgence, Paladins have Infusion of Light, etc, etc. Yes, we have Living Seed, but it has historically been a very ineffective/negligible mechanic (i.e. not even strong enough to put Crit ahead of Multstrike in WoD despite us not having any Multistrike synergy). In general, I would say that we have weaker secondary stats scaling than most other healers.

[burlapbag]

Wow, stonebark looks really cool. I wish they would bring back stackable lifebloom. It was really useful when up against warlocks in pvp because it would go off every time they dispelled it.

[thsevecha]

Wow, stonebark looks really cool. I wish they would bring back stackable lifebloom. It was really useful when up against warlocks in pvp because it would go off every time they dispelled it.

I think you'll be very happy to know that there is a pvp talent called Focused Growth that reads: "Your Lifebloom also applies Focused Growth to the target, increasing Lifebloom's healing by 15%. Stacks up to 3 times."

[theburned]

But we generally scale poorer with Crit than almost any healing spec. Shaman have Resurgence, Paladins have Infusion of Light, etc, etc. Yes, we have Living Seed, but it has historically been a very ineffective/negligible mechanic (i.e. not even strong enough to put Crit ahead of Multstrike in WoD despite us not having any Multistrike synergy). In general, I would say that we have weaker secondary stats scaling than most other healers.

In what way are we scaling worse with crit than everyone else, crit scales pretty much as well as haste for resto druids, what previously caused us to scale poorly with crit has been removed, and we can not reliably count the reduced gcd as valuable again due to heavy mana restrictions.
Living seed never really scaled with crit in the past, because only HT (and perhaps SM, not sure if this is legion only.) because the only time it mattered was regrowth, which already had 100% crit. Now crit increases our throughput by 93% of haste, while also increasing Direct heals and tranq, unlike haste.

[stormgust]

In what way are we scaling worse with crit than everyone else, crit scales pretty much as well as haste for resto druids, what previously caused us to scale poorly with crit has been removed, and we can not reliably count the reduced gcd as valuable again due to heavy mana restrictions.
Living seed never really scaled with crit in the past, because only HT (and perhaps SM, not sure if this is legion only.) because the only time it mattered was regrowth, which already had 100% crit. Now crit increases our throughput by 93% of haste, while also increasing Direct heals and tranq, unlike haste.

Resurgence for shamans, the Holy priest artifact trait and HolyShock/Infusion of Light for Paladins. Anyway, I don't even get why you counter with a "but x scales better for us", that's completely moronic. All you need to find is a 1:1 mapping between secondaries, such that each stat and its image perform the same, doesn't need to be the identify map.

If anything, we're actually worse of with our secondaries currently, because our mastery is heavily undertuned as we cannot get anywhere close w.r.t. about any other healing class but disc priests. E.g. we need a 2 hot average to get to the hpriest mastery, the hpally mastery drops down to an one stack performance at about 30 yards away (and there several talents which allow them to circumvent that), and I doubt haste is anywhere close to being as bad, as our mastery get's once we cannot get close to those two hots (at best 1.5 ignoring the tank - which is a reasonably restriction given the tuning of our direct heals)