No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Eapoe]

And what is the reason behind Blizzard not making content for flight anymore? And there in lies the entire point of this argument. It was fine before there is no reason they can't continue with it going forward.

Your facts are not facts; they are your opinions. Quit accusing others of stating opinion as fact when you are the one doing it.

I have never said flight is not convenient. I have said that is not all flight it is to those of us that want flight. That's the second time I have corrected that incorrect assertation. I will not repeat myself again.

If people want to skip content, that is their prerogative. BC, WotLK had lots of choice and again, were wildly successful. The content everyone talks about flight "trivializing" is trivial to begin with. Show me one instance that flight substantially makes world content easier at level cap. And lets not forget; BC, WotLK, MoP; all successful with flight and people being able to "skip/trivialize" content.

Lots of people have pointed out that Blizzards attempt to make meaningful content without flight failed. WoD by itself refutes the trivializing content argument. I've been playing Legion since alpha. I see nothing that shows me Blizzard learned from the failures of WoD, other than no more garrison. There is no reason in Legion to disallow flight. The content will already be trivialized shortly after release.

None of that is opinion. It's getting to be a little disappointing with you, as you try to say a fact is opinion. Your "fact" you are conveying is indeed an opinion. When you say flight is (insert random feeling) that is opinion. It's a fact you have that opinion, but it is still opinion regardless.
Yes, they were successful with flight. You know what else is successful without flight? Vanilla and WoD, and even probably Legion (remains to be seen) if you want to judge by monetary gain and the fact there's still millions actively playing, and continued playing when "no flight ever" was announced in WoD.
World content easier at level cap with flight: attacking opposing faction cap cities (as this was something most of the playerbase would not even attempt without a full or 2 full raids of people as it was a huge undertaking to get in the door), to now being able to fly right into the throne room with 20 people and taking down a leader. Farming materials on low geared alts as they no longer have to deal with pulling to many mobs node to node. World pvp in general as people fly past each other now with no risk of a gank or hostile action. Content seems less meaningful as you no longer have to make your way thru an encampment and just land at item A and fly back out. These things have all been discussed that you are just trying to gloss over with answers like: lol world pvp, lol cap city attacks.
I've never said flight isn't more than a convenience to you and lessen your opinion or feelings of it, but that doesn't change that flight is just a convenience. It's like this: an apple is an apple. It doesn't matter that someone thinks it's the best tasting fruit in the world, or that the texture changed the way someone feels about fruit in general. It doesn't even matter that to some religions it's a symbol of humankinds eviction from Eden or a symbol of betrayal. In the end, an apple is still an apple.
The analogy likened to flight is not opinion, it is a fact of the matter. Flight skips/trivializes content.

[Bun-Bun]

World content easier at level cap with flight: attacking opposing faction cap cities (as this was something most of the playerbase would not even attempt without a full or 2 full raids of people as it was a huge undertaking to get in the door), to now being able to fly right into the throne room with 20 people and taking down a leader. Farming materials on low geared alts as they no longer have to deal with pulling to many mobs node to node. World pvp in general as people fly past each other now with no risk of a gank or hostile action. Content seems less meaningful as you no longer have to make your way thru an encampment and just land at item A and fly back out. These things have all been discussed that you are just trying to gloss over with answers like: lol world pvp, lol cap city attacks.

The only thing here that holds any salt is attacking capital cities. Flight makes that easier, yes; however no where have I seen this a topic of discussion from Blizzard explaining the removal of flight (plus there are a bunch of other ways this could be addressed without the complete removal of flight). World PVP doesn't matter to most of us as we play on PVE servers (and honestly I couldn't care less about WPVPers as IMO they are a bunch of sickos getting their jollys off on ganking people which is also the reason I refuse to play on a PVP server). Farming materials I disagree, flight doesn't make it any easier, just take less time; less tedium. All the gathering professions are tedious and annoying without flight, not difficult. Blizzards answer to that was nerfing professions and providing everything in garrisons. Look how that turned out.

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None of that is opinion. It's getting to be a little disappointing with you, as you try to say a fact is opinion. Your "fact" you are conveying is indeed an opinion. When you say flight is (insert random feeling) that is opinion. It's a fact you have that opinion, but it is still opinion regardless.
Yes, they were successful with flight. You know what else is successful without flight? Vanilla and WoD, and even probably Legion (remains to be seen) if you want to judge by monetary gain and the fact there's still millions actively playing, and continued playing when "no flight ever" was announced in WoD.

BC and WotLK were both far more successful than vanilla. WoD, as demonstrated many times in this thread, had the fastest decline in subs in WoW history. I am not saying this is because of no flight, but you definitely can not say it was successful without flight. The backlash to no flight ever and Blizzard rescinding of that announcement proves that it wasn't a success.

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Content seems less meaningful as you no longer have to make your way thru an encampment and just land at item A and fly back out.

I've never said flight isn't more than a convenience to you and lessen your opinion or feelings of it, but that doesn't change that flight is just a convenience.

These are your opinions. Not fact.

For example I feel more powerful being able to fly into an enemy encampment and wreck the place. Then when I am done I can fly away epicly. To me this is better, more engaging gameplay than riding on my shitty little horse getting wrecked in the process, or having to attack every worthless mob that doesn't provide me anything in return.

And for a lot of people, flight is more than a convenience. No matter how many times you try to say that's all it is doesn't change that. Flight is not just a convenience. Maybe to you it is. But to me it is not.

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It's like this: an apple is an apple. It doesn't matter that someone thinks it's the best tasting fruit in the world, or that the texture changed the way someone feels about fruit in general. It doesn't even matter that to some religions it's a symbol of humankinds eviction from Eden or a symbol of betrayal. In the end, an apple is still an apple.

An apple is an apple. Flight is flight. An apple can be many different things to many different people. Flight can be many different things to many different people.

You call an apple an apple, but call flight convenience. Your analogy doesn't hold up.

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The analogy likened to flight is not opinion, it is a fact of the matter. Flight skips/trivializes content.

Your analogy was extremely poor as I noted above.

And I will repeat myself again. BC and WothLK were wildly successful (which is fact) with this, in your opinion, broken mechanic in play. Why wasn't it an issue then?

[Oshenz]

These are your opinions. Not fact.

For example I feel more powerful being able to fly into an enemy encampment and wreck the place. Then when I am done I can fly away epicly. To me this is better, more engaging gameplay than riding on my shitty little horse getting wrecked in the process, or having to attack every worthless mob that doesn't provide me anything in return.

And for a lot of people, flight is more than a convenience. No matter how many times you try to say that's all it is doesn't change that. Flight is not just a convenience. Maybe to you it is. But to me it is not.

I've never made a post before, and this is normally unimportant, but you two are arguing semantics like they have substance. Because of that I must point out that flight is a convenience by definition. It is possible, specifically created to BE possible to do EVERYTHING without flight. It is simply not optimal to do so. Therefore BY DEFINITION flight is a convenience.

Carry on lads, that's all i wanted to add.

[Maneo]

Then don't play it. If you can't still get on board with the compromise that Blizzard has struck by activating the achievement for light mid expansion, then you just are an intolerable person wanting everything Blizzard is doing cater to YOU. More than half the player base does not like flight, does not want it, and wants it removed. So just be thankful that its still going to be in the game, and stop crying and whining that it wont be there at launch.

You are really ungrateful for such an amazing game.

<sigh>

What was it Blizzard said? Oh yeah " Flight will be enabled if a significant majority want it"

Then two weeks after they said "no flying in WoD or any future content" they had plans to bring it back.

Now what does that tell you? Blizzard is lying? Wait that can't be it cause when one of use questions the almighty Blizzards integrity we are told "Take off your Tin foil hats"

So for any person w/even the most juvenile of intellects can deduce that flight is wanted by the significant majority that would make you ... wait for it.. the insignificant minority.

This is what I always wonder if flight was so horrible for the game, why did all you anti flight people keep playing all that time?

Blizzard said it was a 50/50 split in regards to flight, so you have 50% that hate flight that play regardless. Lets take a risk and see if taking flight away will piss off the other 50% enough to quit. Not a smart business move.

Hell MoP had more subs during the content drought then WoD has... bout 50% more.. interesting.

[Bun-Bun]

I've never made a post before, and this is normally unimportant, but you two are arguing semantics like they have substance. Because of that I must point out that flight is a convenience by definition. It is possible, specifically created to BE possible to do EVERYTHING without flight. It is simply not optimal to do so. Therefore BY DEFINITION flight is a convenience.

Carry on lads, that's all i wanted to add.

It is not possible to do everything in game without flight. And I think you need to look up the word definition, because what you just did, a definition did not make.

Flight is a gameplay mechanic. It is a method in which the player interacts with the game world. What each player takes from it is completely and entirely up them.

Also I have no reason to believe you didn't just make this account as an alter ego.

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Blizzard said it was a 50/50 split in regards to flight, so you have 50% that hate flight that play regardless. Lets take a risk and see if taking flight away will piss off the other 50% enough to quit. Not a smart business move.

Blizzard also stated that before they announced no flight ever. So prior to actually telling the players what was going on, they perceived a 50/50 split on the topic.

I have not seen updated numbers since pathfinder.

And that's just the thing. These people that apparently dislike flight so much were fine with it for years. Why now is it such an issue? No one can answer this.

[Eapoe]

The only thing here that holds any salt is attacking capital cities. Flight makes that easier, yes; however no where have I seen this a topic of discussion from Blizzard explaining the removal of flight (plus there are a bunch of other ways this could be addressed without the complete removal of flight). World PVP doesn't matter to most of us as we play on PVE servers (and honestly I couldn't care less about WPVPers as IMO they are a bunch of sickos getting their jollys off on ganking people which is also the reason I refuse to play on a PVP server). Farming materials I disagree, flight doesn't make it any easier, just take less time; less tedium. All the gathering professions are tedious and annoying without flight, not difficult. Blizzards answer to that was nerfing professions and providing everything in garrisons. Look how that turned out.

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BC and WotLK were both far more successful than vanilla. WoD, as demonstrated many times in this thread, had the fastest decline in subs in WoW history. I am not saying this is because of no flight, but you definitely can not say it was successful without flight. The backlash to no flight ever and Blizzard rescinding of that announcement proves that it wasn't a success.

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These are your opinions. Not fact.

For example I feel more powerful being able to fly into an enemy encampment and wreck the place. Then when I am done I can fly away epicly. To me this is better, more engaging gameplay than riding on my shitty little horse getting wrecked in the process, or having to attack every worthless mob that doesn't provide me anything in return.

And for a lot of people, flight is more than a convenience. No matter how many times you try to say that's all it is doesn't change that. Flight is not just a convenience. Maybe to you it is. But to me it is not.

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An apple is an apple. Flight is flight. An apple can be many different things to many different people. Flight can be many different things to many different people.

You call an apple an apple, but call flight convenience. Your analogy doesn't hold up.

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Your analogy was extremely poor as I noted above.

And I will repeat myself again. BC and WothLK were wildly successful (which is fact) with this, in your opinion, broken mechanic in play. Why wasn't it an issue then?

It was an issue then. Blizzard has stated why it hurt the game since it was introduced, players and some people in this forum are confirming this idea as well. Just because a problem is not spoken about doesn't make it not a problem.
Flight is a convenience, nothing more. It conveniently let's you move from point A to B to C and back again with nothing of benefit save time and skipping content.
WoD was successful, you can say it was not as successful as previous xpacs, but it was still successful. This has been true since Wrath with every xpac, even the 2 with flight afterwards were not as successful as BC and Wrath, but by your terms I guess those weren't a success either, right?
If you want to construe what I said about content losing meaning as being an opinion, then that is fine, but as far as it being a convenience then that is fact. Convenience def: state of being able to proceed with little effort or difficulty. Anything that saves or simplifies work. This is what flight is, and it is nothing more in pure definition other than the opinion you keep stating of what it is to you. The simple matter is it is a fact you have an opinion about flight, but the opinion you have of it does not make it fact.
WoD has made the company money, retained millions of players, is still popular with players, and did all of this without flight. How are you saying it's not successful?
Less time and tedium is not easier to you? Compared to what? So skipping mobs and bypassing terrain is not easier to you than running around it and fighting your way around? You can seriously type this stuff and think you're being honest about it (and keep in mind my post was low geared alts you use specifically for farming mats)? You also dismiss an entire playerbase of people that do wPvP as saying they don't matter to you while trying to say to everyone "This is my opinion and this is why you should all care about it!" What!? In your last post you demonstrated: your belief that your opinion outweighs any factual evidence. A complete ignorance of a playerbase that you pretend to lobby for (wPvP sucks, this is why wPvPers should want flight!). A contradiction of yourself (you somehow fly in and wreck a place if you have a flying mount but if you're on the ground you get destroyed. When has flight made your character such a powerhouse to destroy mobs?). A lack of understanding of what success means.

[Bun-Bun]

Convenience def: state of being able to proceed with little effort or difficulty. Anything that saves or simplifies work.

Thanks for the definition of convenience. However, that is not the definition of flight. Does flight make certain tasks in WoW more convenient? Yes. Does it define flight? No. If that's all it is to you, that is fine. But that is your OPINION. Stating that as fact is making you a hypocrite.

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WoD has made the company money, retained millions of players, is still popular with players, and did all of this without flight. How are you saying it's not successful?

Look at any forum discussing wow or even read through this thread. I am not repeating everything.

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Less time and tedium is not easier to you? Compared to what? So skipping mobs and bypassing terrain is not easier to you than running around it and fighting your way around? You can seriously type this stuff and think you're being honest about it (and keep in mind my post was low geared alts you use specifically for farming mats)?

Nope. Just takes less time. Less time =/= easier. Just means less time. Even low geared alts. How hard is it to gear now? Not at all. Just takes time to do so. Nothing about world content is hard. Some of it is tedious and annoying, but its not hard. Flight doesn't change that, just takes the tedium away and allows me to spend more time doing things in game I actually want to do; like fly around and collect flying mounts.

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In your last post you demonstrated: your belief that your opinion outweighs any factual evidence. A complete ignorance of a playerbase that you pretend to lobby for (wPvP sucks, this is why wPvPers should want flight!).

I demonstrated an opinion with some fact. I like the idea of WPVP, but the players ruin it. And obviously they are a minority which is evident by the attention they get from Blizzard. I play on a PVE server and I hate nothing more then changes made to the game because of PVP reasons that affect PVE content. I honestly don't have a solution to WPVP other than go play another game, which I know is a sucky answer. But its been this way since BC.

But notice I stated my opinions as opinions. Unlike you.

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A contradiction of yourself (you somehow fly in and wreck a place if you have a flying mount but if you're on the ground you get destroyed. When has flight made your character such a powerhouse to destroy mobs?).

You obviously misunderstood what came after that bit. When on the ground I run through mobs, I don't stop and attack each one. Why? They provide me nothing at level cap. So I am getting picked at while running through them to possibly have to stop and heal before attacking my actual target. Lame.

With flight, its a much more engaging and entertaining experience.

Here's a good article that goes into more depth of this phenomon since you seem completely lacking in understanding it.

http://kotaku.com/5399880/head-in-th...in-video-games

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Flight is a convenience, nothing more. It conveniently let's you move from point A to B to C and back again with nothing of benefit save time and skipping content.

For the last time, this is your opinion. And a lot of people disagree with you.

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A lack of understanding of what success means.

There are millions of people that agree that WoD was a flop. You don't have to look very hard to find all the complaints against WoD and the mistrust Blizzard has created with its playerbase. No other xpac has this issue. Players left at twice the rate of MoP in the first 4 months of the xpac. 3 million players in four months IIRC.

They tried it. It sucked. And now they are trying it again re-skinned hoping players wont be the wiser.

Hell, Blizzard even started giving people exit interviews because so many were leaving. And you know what a lot of those players told those GMs? It was because of how Blizzard handled the flight situation and garrisons. Well they listened on garrisons.

EDIT: you also have no idea how many more subs they lost since they stopped releasing those numbers. But I have never seen the game so empty.

[Eapoe]

Thanks for the definition of convenience. However, that is not the definition of flight. Does flight make certain tasks in WoW more convenient? Yes. Does it define flight? No. If that's all it is to you, that is fine. But that is your OPINION. Stating that as fact is making you a hypocrite.

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Look at any forum discussing wow or even read through this thread. I am not repeating everything.

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Nope. Just takes less time. Less time =/= easier. Just means less time. Even low geared alts. How hard is it to gear now? Not at all. Just takes time to do so. Nothing about world content is hard. Some of it is tedious and annoying, but its not hard. Flight doesn't change that, just takes the tedium away and allows me to spend more time doing things in game I actually want to do; like fly around and collect flying mounts.

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I demonstrated an opinion with some fact. I like the idea of WPVP, but the players ruin it. And obviously they are a minority which is evident by the attention they get from Blizzard. I play on a PVE server and I hate nothing more then changes made to the game because of PVP reasons that affect PVE content. I honestly don't have a solution to WPVP other than go play another game, which I know is a sucky answer. But its been this way since BC.

But notice I stated my opinions as opinions. Unlike you.

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You obviously misunderstood what came after that bit. When on the ground I run through mobs, I don't stop and attack each one. Why? They provide me nothing at level cap. So I am getting picked at while running through them to possibly have to stop and heal before attacking my actual target. Lame.

With flight, its a much more engaging and entertaining experience.

Here's a good article that goes into more depth of this phenomon since you seem completely lacking in understanding it.

http://kotaku.com/5399880/head-in-th...in-video-games

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For the last time, this is your opinion. And a lot of people disagree with you.

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There are millions of people that agree that WoD was a flop. You don't have to look very hard to find all the complaints against WoD and the mistrust Blizzard has created with its playerbase. No other xpac has this issue. Players left at twice the rate of MoP in the first 4 months of the xpac. 3 million players in four months IIRC.

They tried it. It sucked. And now they are trying it again re-skinned hoping players wont be the wiser.

Hell, Blizzard even started giving people exit interviews because so many were leaving. And you know what a lot of those players told those GMs? It was because of how Blizzard handled the flight situation and garrisons. Well they listened on garrisons.

EDIT: you also have no idea how many more subs they lost since they stopped releasing those numbers. But I have never seen the game so empty.

The game is always this empty at the end of an xpac, then picks up for pre launch, empties for a week or two, then gets a mass gain at launch to lose subs again later.
No, not a lot of people disagree with me on this topic of opinion vs fact, so far it has only been you saying that what your opinion of flight is as fact, which is nothing more than a misrepresentation of ideas.
As far as the exit interviews go, this is becoming a laughable defense. You say Blizzard listened on 1 thing but not the other, showing that Blizzard more than likely has info that shows flight to not be the big cause of people leaving. Also to note, how do you have any idea what a lot of those players told Blizzard? It's just as likely people stated things like uninteresting content or lack of things to do, which has nothing to do with flight. Looking at Legion this seems more likely than your accusal of flight seeing as how they are doing in Legion what they did in WoD for flight, and expanding on things to do to get people into the world again and keeping ongoing content with Artifacts and the legendary items.
Again, you are stating that because people left, it was a failure. Fact of the matter: Blizz made money and retained over 1/2 the playerbase even AFTER the flight issue, as last reported numbers showed 5.5 million still actively playing. I'm sure it's dropped even more since then, but as long as people are interested and they make more than spent, it is still a success, plain and simple.
For the not last time, flight is a convenience. Just like my car is a convenience to me. Do I need it to get from home to work? Nope, and I love my car, but it's not necessary...but it sure is fun. It means more to me than you, but much like flight to WoD, it's not necessary for my day to day living, and therefore making it a convenience.
I'm sorry that playing the game is lame to you. That last part of your story was not cleverly written as it states you fly in and ergo things, but then get wrecked if you are on a ground mount. Just sounds like you have more fun skipping content than being an epic warrior of your cause battling the enemy.
I didn't see you state opinion as opinion, I saw you post about how world pvp is useless and hate it because players are dumb and ruin it for you. You then go on to say play another game, something that's been suggested to others in this thread multiple times that you strictly defend and say is stupid and "why should I," yet you demand that of other players? Way to prove you have a leg to stand on in your debates.

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<sigh>

What was it Blizzard said? Oh yeah " Flight will be enabled if a significant majority want it"

Then two weeks after they said "no flying in WoD or any future content" they had plans to bring it back.

Now what does that tell you? Blizzard is lying? Wait that can't be it cause when one of use questions the almighty Blizzards integrity we are told "Take off your Tin foil hats"

So for any person w/even the most juvenile of intellects can deduce that flight is wanted by the significant majority that would make you ... wait for it.. the insignificant minority.

This is what I always wonder if flight was so horrible for the game, why did all you anti flight people keep playing all that time?

Blizzard said it was a 50/50 split in regards to flight, so you have 50% that hate flight that play regardless. Lets take a risk and see if taking flight away will piss off the other 50% enough to quit. Not a smart business move.

Hell MoP had more subs during the content drought then WoD has... bout 50% more.. interesting.

*sigh*. Because, for the 100th time, most people you are addressing in this thread are not anti flight. They are just posting they understand where Blizzard stands and the stupidity of some of your arguements and that they enjoyed the game just as much without flight as with it.

[Bun-Bun]

The game is always this empty at the end of an xpac, then picks up for pre launch, empties for a week or two, then gets a mass gain at launch to lose subs again later.

Nope not always. BC and WotLK were full and thriving at the end. There was lots of people around doing stuff near the end of MoP and esspecially as things were ramping up to WoD (last two months). Right now, the servers are empty.

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No, not a lot of people disagree with me on this topic of opinion vs fact, so far it has only been you saying that what your opinion of flight is as fact, which is nothing more than a misrepresentation of ideas.

Wrong again. You're the one stating opinion as fact and you're blind if you do not see the millions that disagree with. Just go look at the Blizzard forums along with these ones. Blizzards own actions prove you wrong.

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As far as the exit interviews go, this is becoming a laughable defense. You say Blizzard listened on 1 thing but not the other, showing that Blizzard more than likely has info that shows flight to not be the big cause of people leaving.

Again, Blizzards actions prove you wrong. They have that info and its clear in how quickly they reacted tot he backlash from their no flying ever announcement. Doesn't mean they listened to us or learned anything. They are repeated the same mistakes with legion gain. Leaving it up in the air, open to interpretation and not committed to anything. And that is why they are not getting my money this time.

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Also to note, how do you have any idea what a lot of those players told Blizzard? It's just as likely people stated things like uninteresting content or lack of things to do, which has nothing to do with flight.

I talked at length with a GM about this for ~45 minutes during my exit earlier this year. That's how I know.

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Looking at Legion this seems more likely than your accusal of flight seeing as how they are doing in Legion what they did in WoD for flight, and expanding on things to do to get people into the world again and keeping ongoing content with Artifacts and the legendary items.

I am in beta and was in the alpha. Legion is shaping up to be exactly like WoD. We will see if Blizzard smartens up or not.

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For the not last time, flight is a convenience. Just like my car is a convenience to me. Do I need it to get from home to work? Nope, and I love my car, but it's not necessary...but it sure is fun. It means more to me than you, but much like flight to WoD, it's not necessary for my day to day living, and therefore making it a convenience.

Ok. So a car is a convenience to you. It's not convenience. The definition of a car is not the same as convenience.

Now to me, my vehicles are more than a mode of transportation. I modify my vehicles for performance and comfort as well as build car audio systems. I drive for pleasure and take my vehicles to car shows and socialize with others who are interested in similar things.

I take great enjoyment out of my hobby with my vehicles. Just like I take great enjoyment out of flying and collecting flying mounts in WoW.

You don't need your car? You don't need WoW or any other video game. WoW is a form of entertainment, not a job, not real life. Your opinion is just that, an opinion.

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That last part of your story was not cleverly written as it states you fly in and ergo things, but then get wrecked if you are on a ground mount. Just sounds like you have more fun skipping content than being an epic warrior of your cause battling the enemy.

Then go re read it and read the article I linked. Just because you don't have fun with such things doesn't mean others don't.

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I didn't see you state opinion as opinion, I saw you post about how world pvp is useless and hate it because players are dumb and ruin it for you. You then go on to say play another game, something that's been suggested to others in this thread multiple times that you strictly defend and say is stupid and "why should I," yet you demand that of other players? Way to prove you have a leg to stand on in your debates.

WPVPers as IMO they are a bunch of sickos getting their jollys off on ganking people which is also the reason I refuse to play on a PVP server

Highlighted for you.

I didn't demand anything and I didn't say it was useless. I said the only thing I can think of is for them to go play another game, which I said is a sucky solution. I don't understand why they wouldn't have already since WPVP has been dead for a long time. I also said they are obviously a minority as Blizzard doesn't give WPVP much attention.


I think you need to take some reading comprehension classes as well as some critical thinking. You are extremely narrow minded and as long as you keep being hypocritical and passing your opinion off as fact I am done here.

[Eapoe]

Nope not always. BC and WotLK were full and thriving at the end. There was lots of people around doing stuff near the end of MoP and esspecially as things were ramping up to WoD (last two months). Right now, the servers are empty.

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Wrong again. You're the one stating opinion as fact and you're blind if you do not see the millions that disagree with. Just go look at the Blizzard forums along with these ones. Blizzards own actions prove you wrong.

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Again, Blizzards actions prove you wrong.

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I talked at length with a GM about this for ~45 minutes during my exit earlier this year. That's how I know.

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I am in beta and was in the alpha. Legion is shaping up to be exactly like WoD. We will see if Blizzard smartens up or not.

No, Blizzards actions do not prove me wrong, they prove that after people became vocal that maybe removing indefinitely was too harsh too quickly. Wrath was not thriving until the end, as even the cap cities was a ghost town. There's been 3 xpacs since the 2 you mentioned, so even going by your example that's 50/50 of ghost town time.
So you spoke to a GM, and they willingly told you the reason people quit? That's kind of bad practice as most companies won't share information about other people's personal choices in a matter. I too am in Beta and Alpha, and see it not shaping up like anything...but keep spinning your ideas on how you "feel" an expansion will be.
You seriously just need to stop. Flight is a convenience, proven fact of the matter. You have opinion on why it's great for you, nothing else. The fact flight is great for you and makes you feel warm and fuzzy does not change what flight is, the end. I'm done going in circles with you. You will never admit you are wrong and just come up with anything that suits your fancy and trying to repeat what I say to you back at me and being dead wrong. Again, im done with you, please move along.

[rda]

Skimming through the last pages, found this:

WoD was successful, you can say it was not as successful as previous xpacs, but it was still successful.

ROFL

What would be "unsuccessful" in your eyes, everybody leaving instead of just half? Lawsuits?

I will tell you how to measure "successful". Go and ask Blizzard if they want another expansion like WoD. Their sharp "no" will tell you everything you need to know.

[Eapoe]

Skimming through the last pages, found this:



ROFL

What would be "unsuccessful" in your eyes, everybody leaving instead of just half? Lawsuits?

I will tell you how to measure "successful". Go and ask Blizzard if they want another expansion like WoD. Their sharp "no" will tell you everything you need to know.

Did they make money? Are people still playing? Did players continue thru the whole xpac? If the answer to these are yes, then it was successful. The end. What would be unsuccessful? A game full of glitches, a game with no end game content, a game that fails to make money, a game that is unplayable. Because the garrison was a failure for what it was supposed to be and it did have its shortcomings, it was still a success.

[Bun-Bun]

Skimming through the last pages, found this:



ROFL

What would be "unsuccessful" in your eyes, everybody leaving instead of just half? Lawsuits?

I will tell you how to measure "successful". Go and ask Blizzard if they want another expansion like WoD. Their sharp "no" will tell you everything you need to know.

Don't have to ask. They have already openly admitted it.

[rda]

Did they make money? Are people still playing? Did players continue thru the whole xpac? If the answer to these are yes, then it was successful. The end.

If you have a stable business making, say, $500 mil a year, it's pretty easy to make $100 mil the next year. Does that mean it was a successful year? No, it's a disaster. It's the same here.

I am talking to a five year old.

[Bun-Bun]

You have opinion on why it's great for you, nothing else. The fact flight is great for you and makes you feel warm and fuzzy does not change what flight is, the end. I'm done going in circles with you. You will never admit you are wrong and just come up with anything that suits your fancy and trying to repeat what I say to you back at me and being dead wrong. Again, im done with you, please move along.

You also have nothing but an opinion. You're the one coming up with crazy analogies and making up shit to fit your story.

Stop being a hypocrite.

The numbers do not lie. Blizzards actions do not lie. You are stuck on the notion that your opinions are fact and everyone else is wrong.

[Dhrizzle]

If you have a stable business making, say, $500 mil a year, it's pretty easy to make $100 mil the next year. Does that mean it was a successful year? No, it's a disaster. It's the same here.

I am talking to a five year old.

How do you define a stable business? WoW's sub number have been dropping at a consistent rate since the end of WotLK. If you have a product that massively outsells it's competition despite being based on much older tech would you consider it a failure just because it sells less than when it was new?

[rda]

How do you define a stable business? WoW's sub number have been dropping at a consistent rate since the end of WotLK. If you have a product that massively outsells it's competition despite being based on much older tech would you consider it a failure just because it sells less than when it was new?

You seem to be saying that WoD losing half of its players was just a natural decline. This is delusional.

(You are wrong in more than one way in your last sentence, but I won't engage, it's a different topic.)

[Dhrizzle]

You also have nothing but an opinion. You're the one coming up with crazy analogies and making up shit to fit your story.

Stop being a hypocrite.

The numbers do not lie. Blizzards actions do not lie. You are stuck on the notion that your opinions are fact and everyone else is wrong.

If Blizzard's actions do not lie then the majority of players seem to be okay with flight being gated behind a pathfinder achievement to be completely d at a later date.

If the numbers day but lie the "disaster" of WoD didn't hasten the decline of WoW's sub number any mprenthan Cata or MoP.

[Eapoe]

If you have a stable business making, say, $500 mil a year, it's pretty easy to make $100 mil the next year. Does that mean it was a successful year? No, it's a disaster. It's the same here.

I am talking to a five year old.

If you MAKE money, it was a success. How is that hard for you to grasp? As I previously stated, it's not as successful, but it's a success.
I am talking to 4 year old that doesn't understand simple mathematics.

[rda]

If you MAKE money, it was a success. How is that hard for you to grasp? As I previously stated, it's not as successful, but it's a success.
I am talking to 4 year old that doesn't understand simple mathematics.

I started writing a reply, but then realized it's not worth it. The declining forum of the declining game where a couple or diehard relics want to argue just to argue. Have a nice day.