No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[wing5wong]

Show me where Blizzard has said the issue is 310% flying.

Players on the forums have this issue, not blizzard.

I quoted the entire parts about rep. You said no mob grinds and no mob grinds to exalted. Do I need to quote them again?

No mob grinds from neutral to exalted. Sure, quote it again.

[Bun-Bun]

No mob grinds from neutral to exalted. Sure, quote it again.

That statement is false. To get to exalted you must do mob grinds. Go read wowhead again.

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Players on the forums have this issue, not blizzard.

What players? Never have I seen this before. All the complaints from the no flyers aren't affected by speed, but by the mere existence of flight in the game.

[wing5wong]

That statement is false. To get to exalted you must do mob grinds. Go read wowhead again.

Its like you cant read the part that says "from neutral".
The only faction, as i said before, that requires a full grind, is shatari defense.
Every other rep involves more than that; Questing to half revered, and item collection/named mobs

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What players? Never have I seen this before. All the complaints from the no flyers aren't affected by speed, but by the mere existence of flight in the game.

So you're happy with 60% flight in legion until pathfinder X is announced?

[Bun-Bun]

So you're happy with 60% flight in legion until pathfinder X is announced?

I would be happy with multiple levels of flight speed yes; as long as it was tied to lore and not something stupid and not through pathfinder in any form. Leave pathfinder for the altoholics, have a more reasonable unlock method for the rest of us.

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Its like you cant read the part that says "from neutral".
The only faction, as i said before, that requires a full grind, is shatari defense.
Every other rep involves more than that; Questing to half revered, and item collection/named mobs

And its like you can't comprehend that they all require mob grind; not "easy" and "fast" like you originally suggested.

Even Ion can recognize the Draenor rep grinds sucked. Why can't you?

[wing5wong]

I would be happy with multiple levels of flight speed yes; as long as it was tied to lore and not something stupid and not through pathfinder in any form. Leave pathfinder for the altoholics, have a more reasonable unlock method for the rest of us.

I dont get what can be more reasonable than asking that you see all the content. Especially if a slower flight was introduced (it wont be).
Tack on another quest that has no other involvement but to give flight? Could be interesting i guess.
how long do you make it? How much development time needs to go into creating a single long quest chain? Time gate portions of it? Significant gold cost on top?

And its like you can't comprehend that they all require mob grind; not "easy" and "fast" like you originally suggested.

Even Ion can recognize the Draenor rep grinds sucked. Why can't you?

Firstly i never stated they were easy or fast to do. And i never stated they didnt need any mob grinding

Despite that, getting to revered (and nearly exalted) was relatively easy and fast. Just do quests.
they took like 2 hours at most to finish (if you even wanted to go from revered to exalted - there wasnt much point)
Draenor reps have been some of the easiest yet to max out.

Exciting - no. Easy, and minimal time - yes

[Dhrizzle]

I don't understand where people are getting the idea Apexis quests didn't have any lore. They all tied into the themes of the zones they were found in, half of them were associated with quests from the garrison campaign and picking the quest up gives an explanation of what's going on and why you need to stop it.

[Wolfrick]

How about keeping core elements of travel consistent with the way they were in the successful expansions of TBC, WotLK, Cata and MoP and abandoning the concept behind failed shitty expansions like WOD

Sounds like you are not one for Progression and for the future, Flying should be flying.... not Hovering in the air like a helicopers....

[Elim Garak]

Sounds like you are not one for Progression and for the future, Flying should be flying.... not Hovering in the air like a helicopers....

Or a colibri... oh wait, colibri is flying even though it can hover and it's not a helicopter. There might be something wrong in your statement.

[Bun-Bun]

Firstly i never stated they were easy or fast to do. And i never stated they didnt need any mob grinding

Despite that, getting to revered (and nearly exalted) was relatively easy and fast. Just do quests.
they took like 2 hours at most to finish (if you even wanted to go from revered to exalted - there wasnt much point)
Draenor reps have been some of the easiest yet to max out.

Exciting - no. Easy, and minimal time - yes

You said right here they were easy

CMs, Mythics, Highmaul, BRF, HFC....
Reps tied to quests made them easy sure. Especially with medallions available as well

And I already quoted where you said no mob grinds.

Rep in Draenor were the worst, most grindy reps since vanilla. Except for the timeless ones, which for some reason Blizzard thought is what people wanted. But even Ion can recognize that was a mistake and that Draenor reps sucked (specifically saying getting a group of people together to AoE down a bunch of mobs is not engaging/fun content). So I ask again, why can't you?

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I don't get what can be more reasonable than asking that you see all the content.

Oh how about not forcing players to do everything before they can fly? Pathfinder doesn't just ask you to SEE all the content but GRIND it for months on end before giving the privilege of being able to fly. Eff that. I don't want to grind out this crap for weeks on end just to be able to fly and then have nothing left to fly to.

I really don't get where Ion said their goal wasn't to make you grind it out for months, yet thats exactly what happened. Unless you had 2+hours to spend everyday in game there was no way to get pathfinder in the 3 weeks he suggested it would take.

Plus I don't want to do all the content. I didn't like timeless, and I didn't do Isle of Thunder. Cata I didn't do firelands and BC I didn't do isle of quel'danas. I don't want to be forced to do these things just to fly. The reward is not worth the effort especially considering there is nothing left to do after you unlock flight in that model.

It would be akin to forcing many players to grind out battle pets for weeks on end. A lot of players hate battle pets and refuse to be any part of it. Imagine locking raids or some other highly desired content behind battle pets.

Have a quest chain that unlocks at level cap, that involves each of the zones available at release in some form that is tied to lore. Have it unlock at max level and be completable in under a week. Then when new content is released either extend that quest chain or have no flight in the new zone if they so desperately want that kind of content. That seems reasonable to me. And absolutely no rep grinds attached to it.

EDIT:

Another way to look at flight from a reward standpoint is this; Blizzard recognized that the water strider is an important mount that people spent time to unlock and that removing it in current content is unfair to the work they put in to unlocking it (they removed it from beta, people pointed out that decision sucked and Blizzard agreed). Flight is no different in that regard. I have spent countless hours unlocking flight and collecting flying mounts; to not be able to use them in current content is a slap in the face. So many things in this game become completely irrelevant when a new xpac comes out (raid gear becomes 100% obsolete). Only things that stay are cosmetic and vanity items (like mounts, transmogs, toys etc.). Removal of flight removes a huge aspect of what you can take forward in his game. So why should I play again if all my time is going to be for waste? People complain about entitled kids wanting everything for nothing, on the contrary I want something for my time and not have it thrown back in my face in the future.

[Deleted]

Stormheim is kinda pain without flying, but, I believe they designed it on purpose knowing flying will occur at some point in the expansion. WoD had a lot more flatness since they thought for a while that flying wouldn't happen.

[Maudib]

And I already quoted where you said no mob grinds.

Rep in Draenor were the worst, most grindy reps since vanilla. Except for the timeless ones, which for some reason Blizzard thought is what people wanted. But even Ion can recognize that was a mistake and that Draenor reps sucked (specifically saying getting a group of people together to AoE down a bunch of mobs is not engaging/fun content). So I ask again, why can't you?

I do not mind rep grinds... if that is the "extra" you can earn. By that I mean if you have 4 hours to play and can do all the rep dailes/etc in that time... great. If you have 8 hours top play and can at LEAST make progress by a mob grind... then by all means add that... but do NOT lock me behind mostly mob grinds or hard daily caps... let ME and my flexible scedule determine what I choose to play any given day.

But regardless of this "grind" "no grind" bullshit (you know you are trying to backpedal wing6wong)... flying is NEEDED in Legion and it will soon be a deafening roar a month after launch. Blizz will have no choice than to expedite their plans to open it up.

[Eapoe]

I do not mind rep grinds... if that is the "extra" you can earn. By that I mean if you have 4 hours to play and can do all the rep dailes/etc in that time... great. If you have 8 hours top play and can at LEAST make progress by a mob grind... then by all means add that... but do NOT lock me behind mostly mob grinds or hard daily caps... let ME and my flexible scedule determine what I choose to play any given day.

But regardless of this "grind" "no grind" bullshit (you know you are trying to backpedal wing6wong)... flying is NEEDED in Legion and it will soon be a deafening roar a month after launch. Blizz will have no choice than to expedite their plans to open it up.

Even if you cant do them all in 1 day...this is still nothing new. If you don't have the time you will have to prioritize the ones you want to work on for that day. Same thing from every xpac...multiple reps for various rewards/cosmetics and if not enough time for all then pick which ones to work on.
As far as the roar that will occur that forced Blizzards hand, I've already posted why this won't occur. 1). The people that have left already and did not come back are gone for good, so you can already count them out. 2). Blizzard has given advanced knowledge of how flight will play out for Legion, so people will either play until then or stay unsubbed until they can start flying. 3). The outrage as people have been calling it is already well known by Blizzard and probably even the "bean counters," and they are still moving forward with the same intent, meaning the "roar" you speak of will matter little to the company, if a roar in fact happens.
Flight is also not NEEDED as there is nothing in Legion, at this time, that requires it. There is no in game necessity for it to exist at this point.

[Elim Garak]

Flight is also not NEEDED as there is nothing in Legion, at this time, that requires it. There is no in game necessity for it to exist at this point.

That can be said about anything. Dungeons? Not needed. There's no in game necessity for them to exist at this point. Raids? Same story.

[wing5wong]

You said right here they were easy



And I already quoted where you said no mob grinds.

Woops you're right, i did say they were easy - because they were.
Again you dont read the post though. No mob grinds from neutral to exalted.
(except shatari defense, already mentioned that)

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That can be said about anything. Dungeons? Not needed. There's no in game necessity for them to exist at this point. Raids? Same story.

Not even close. Dungeons, raids and quests (and professions?) are the cornerstones of WoW

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Another way to look at flight from a reward standpoint is this; Blizzard recognized that the water strider is an important mount that people spent time to unlock and that removing it in current content is unfair to the work they put in to unlocking it (they removed it from beta, people pointed out that decision sucked and Blizzard agreed). Flight is no different in that regard. I have spent countless hours unlocking flight and collecting flying mounts; to not be able to use them in current content is a slap in the face. So many things in this game become completely irrelevant when a new xpac comes out (raid gear becomes 100% obsolete). Only things that stay are cosmetic and vanity items (like mounts, transmogs, toys etc.). Removal of flight removes a huge aspect of what you can take forward in his game. So why should I play again if all my time is going to be for waste? People complain about entitled kids wanting everything for nothing, on the contrary I want something for my time and not have it thrown back in my face in the future.

The difference with a strider is that it doesn't allow you to bypass content in the same way as flying, or increase the speed at which you reach content

You can still use every mount you've collected.

[Eapoe]

That can be said about anything. Dungeons? Not needed. There's no in game necessity for them to exist at this point. Raids? Same story.

Not the same, as dungeons, raids, professions, world quests to name some things, offer a progression system of increasing player power. As an xpac ages, then yes, they offer little to no reward for the progression of a players character. Now, if we're talking about a game like Minecraft or Pikmin, I would be inclined to agree with you; but, seeing as WoW is a progression driven game in terms of player power and end game content, the things you are talking about are indeed needed. The lore directly plays out and is tied to raids and dungeons.
To amend myself a little, if the game played out to where the highest level of gear/achievements/lore/rewards were all completely contained in the open world, and the game was designed with that in mind, then yes, you are completely correct. As it stands now though, the game is directly designed where those things ARE needed. On the flip side, flight is not needed as it offers nothing more (again, so far that we've all seen) than a convenience and alternative travel method and has no direct impact on anything in the game except skipping content and bypassing the world.

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Woops you're right, i did say they were easy - because they were.
Again you dont read the post though. No mob grinds from neutral to exalted.
(except shatari defense, already mentioned that)

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Not even close. Dungeons, raids and quests (and professions?) are the cornerstones of WoW

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The difference with a strider is that it doesn't allow you to bypass content in the same way as flying, or increase the speed at which you reach content

You can still use every mount you've collected.

To clarify, the strider does indeed give the same manner of bypassing to some degree, and was part of the reason Blizzard was going to take away the water walking affect on it. Part of it was also they felt it was too overpowered of a mount and took away choice of which mount you are using, as players would only mount that one and never anything else.
From their retraction statement, it sounds like with the design of Legion though, the water areas are so small and play so little a factor that it didn't matter in the long run as it won't be a priority mount for the xpac. In a future xpac though, who knows, they still might take away the ability of it if it causes a problem with content skipping in such a way that flight does.

[Bun-Bun]

I do not mind rep grinds... if that is the "extra" you can earn. By that I mean if you have 4 hours to play and can do all the rep dailes/etc in that time... great. If you have 8 hours top play and can at LEAST make progress by a mob grind... then by all means add that... but do NOT lock me behind mostly mob grinds or hard daily caps... let ME and my flexible scedule determine what I choose to play any given day.

But regardless of this "grind" "no grind" bullshit (you know you are trying to backpedal wing6wong)... flying is NEEDED in Legion and it will soon be a deafening roar a month after launch. Blizz will have no choice than to expedite their plans to open it up.

Oh completely agree. I like choice and having the ability to choose whether I gain rep via quest and/or mob grind. I wasn't a huge fan of The Anglers dailies. It got really tedious in the end and I would have liked some additional method to gain rep (but still prefer that over straight mob grinds like the last 12k+ of rep in draenor). I personally really liked the tabard idea in WotLK. Wear the tabard for that rep and gain it while running dungeons. I see there is a bonus dungeon event that is similar now.

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Woops you're right, i did say they were easy - because they were.
Again you dont read the post though. No mob grinds from neutral to exalted.
(except shatari defense, already mentioned that)

They are not easy. They are tedious and poorly designed. Ion agrees with this. Just because you have no life and play the game a ridiculous amount does not change this fact.

Your one post says no mob grinds. Your second is from neutral to exalted which is still untrue, mob grinds are required to get to exalted.

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The difference with a strider is that it doesn't allow you to bypass content in the same way as flying, or increase the speed at which you reach content

Still skipping content. Which is part of the reason why Blizzard removed it in beta, but then recognized it wasn't fair to those that spent the time earning it. No different from flight.

"removing the water-walking functionality feels like we’re taking away something that you have worked hard to earn"

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You can still use every mount you've collected.

Not in current content.

[wing5wong]

To clarify, the strider does indeed give the same manner of bypassing to some degree, and was part of the reason Blizzard was going to take away the water walking affect on it. Part of it was also they felt it was too overpowered of a mount and took away choice of which mount you are using, as players would only mount that one and never anything else.
From their retraction statement, it sounds like with the design of Legion though, the water areas are so small and play so little a factor that it didn't matter in the long run as it won't be a priority mount for the xpac. In a future xpac though, who knows, they still might take away the ability of it if it causes a problem with content skipping in such a way that flight does.

Yea it has an advantage for sure, its just not something that is used constantly. I dont remember using it.

[Bun-Bun]

Not the same, as dungeons, raids, professions, world quests to name some things, offer a progression system of increasing player power. As an xpac ages, then yes, they offer little to no reward for the progression of a players character. Now, if we're talking about a game like Minecraft or Pikmin, I would be inclined to agree with you; but, seeing as WoW is a progression driven game in terms of player power and end game content, the things you are talking about are indeed needed. The lore directly plays out and is tied to raids and dungeons.
To amend myself a little, if the game played out to where the highest level of gear/achievements/lore/rewards were all completely contained in the open world, and the game was designed with that in mind, then yes, you are completely correct. As it stands now though, the game is directly designed where those things ARE needed. On the flip side, flight is not needed as it offers nothing more (again, so far that we've all seen) than a convenience and alternative travel method and has no direct impact on anything in the game except skipping content and bypassing the world.

Except lore. Flying is a part of the warcraft universe. Now all of a sudden we don't know how to fly? All our mounts had their wings clipped off?

Wheres the lore?

WoD suffered from luonarrative dissonance worse than any other game I have played. I am this big mighty commander of this army taking back draenor (along with millions of other players who are also a commander of the same army with a base in the exact same spot as mine...); but I can't fly. All my minions can fly. But I can't.

What?

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Yea it has an advantage for sure, its just not something that is used constantly. I dont remember using it.

It is used constantly. Blizzard saw people were always using the water strider instead of any other mount in their collection.

[wing5wong]

Oh completely agree. I like choice and having the ability to choose whether I gain rep via quest and/or mob grind. I wasn't a huge fan of The Anglers dailies. It got really tedious in the end and I would have liked some additional method to gain rep (but still prefer that over straight mob grinds like the last 12k+ of rep in draenor). I personally really liked the tabard idea in WotLK. Wear the tabard for that rep and gain it while running dungeons. I see there is a bonus dungeon event that is similar now.

"Here, do irrelevant things but still increase reputation with us."
It worked, but its not a good design.

They are not easy. They are tedious and poorly designed. Ion agrees with this. Just because you have no life and play the game a ridiculous amount does not change this fact.

Your one post says no mob grinds. Your second is from neutral to exalted which is still untrue, mob grinds are required to get to exalted.

No point going on about this anymore. You are fixated on the fact you have to kill anything to get exalted.

Still skipping content. Which is part of the reason why Blizzard removed it in beta, but then recognized it wasn't fair to those that spent the time earning it. No different from flight.

"removing the water-walking functionality feels like we’re taking away something that you have worked hard to earn"

Its the degree in which this can be utilised. Water based areas that are faster to just ride across vs entire world.
I can probably count those water based areas that you would even consider using this on,on 1 hand.

Not in current content.

Thats strange, i dont seem to be restricted on using mount in my collection.
Try open a ticket.

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It is used constantly. Blizzard saw people were always using the water strider instead of any other mount in their collection.

In legion.

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Except lore. Flying is a part of the warcraft universe. Now all of a sudden we don't know how to fly? All our mounts had their wings clipped off?

Wheres the lore?

WoD suffered from luonarrative dissonance worse than any other game I have played. I am this big mighty commander of this army taking back draenor (along with millions of other players who are also a commander of the same army with a base in the exact same spot as mine...); but I can't fly. All my minions can fly. But I can't.

What?

Too many demons falling from the sky. uncertain territory. blah blah blah, lore done.

[Maudib]

Even if you cant do them all in 1 day...this is still nothing new. If you don't have the time you will have to prioritize the ones you want to work on for that day. Same thing from every xpac...multiple reps for various rewards/cosmetics and if not enough time for all then pick which ones to work on.
As far as the roar that will occur that forced Blizzards hand, I've already posted why this won't occur. 1). The people that have left already and did not come back are gone for good, so you can already count them out. 2). Blizzard has given advanced knowledge of how flight will play out for Legion, so people will either play until then or stay unsubbed until they can start flying. 3). The outrage as people have been calling it is already well known by Blizzard and probably even the "bean counters," and they are still moving forward with the same intent, meaning the "roar" you speak of will matter little to the company, if a roar in fact happens.
Flight is also not NEEDED as there is nothing in Legion, at this time, that requires it. There is no in game necessity for it to exist at this point.

Ha ha! It's coming. No matter how much you don't want it.. and sooner than we think.