European Superstate Incoming

[nonameelf]

I'm not completly against the concept. Because certain problems like the international market and corperations, enviremont you either needs more EU or less eu and less interwoven corperate market.

But the way the EU is set up it would be a disaster to make it stronger:
- It's too much set up to ignore to public and stubornly keep going their desired way.
- too much influence from lobyists
- too many countries their are too different economicly.

EU should break up 3 ways or so i think.
Mediteranian EU: France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece
Balkan EU: The countries between germany and rusia.
Central EU: Germany, Netherlands, Luxemburg, Denmark, Scandanavia, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, possibly Poland (we can pull one country thats a bit behind).

Belgium would be in a bind what to join considering its split. France could be a loss since a different voice can be good and their more left than germany/netherlands tends to be.

I'm from Netherlands what I was thought when i was younger was that netherlands is a trading country nto a production country. So we are much more dependant on the EU channeling the trade compared to other countries like UK or Germany. If it wasn't for that i'd probably want Netherlands to leave as well.

lol

Switzerland is never joining the EU. They're always going to be that empty spot in the middle of EU maps to piss off OCD people.

[Deleted]

I was actually hoping the opposite would happen...

[Incredibale]

So old enough to die for your country, old enough to smoke, but not old enough to participate in politics that can and will affect your life?

If you're still at the "white people are evil, free speech is racist, socialism FTW, life outside the city is selfish, use the proper pronouns or else" phase of your life you're too immature to be able to vote. College kids are barely more mature than the 8 year olds who would vote for a president who'd promise them free Skittles for life.

[Dhrizzle]

If you're still at the "white people are evil, free speech is racist, socialism FTW, life outside the city is selfish, use the proper pronouns or else" phase of your life you're too immature to be able to vote. College kids are barely more mature than the 8 year olds who would vote for a president who'd promise them free Skittles for life.

If you're at the point where your arguments consist of right-wing buzzwords and ageism against the young then you're probably too old to vote as you'll just go for any candidate who promises to bring back "the good old days" that never existed.

[Deleted]

lol

Switzerland is never joining the EU. They're always going to be that empty spot in the middle of EU maps to piss off OCD people.

Fine with me any countries in that list doesnt have to join. Was more putting out the broadscope Central EU might just be too large a list with too much differences not sure. Currently Norway doesn't want to join either, they probably want to when their natural resources run low.

[Deleted]

I wouldnt be against it, but lets be serious here this is NEVER going to happen.

[Deleted]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

[Deleted]

- Federal army and special forces, single countries not allowed to have their own army (like in USA)
- Unification of penal law and tax system.
- Euro as the only allowed currency.
- Unified travel visa system.
- Unified foreign politiciss, with reduced role of NATO.

all sounds like more of the same, especially since it, you know, doesn't mention sovereignty at all.

army talk has been going on for a while, with the UK gone it's now easy to enforce euro for new members, etc. and while sovereignty remains, there will be lots of exceptions to the rules, just like now.

[Deleted]

lol

Switzerland is never joining the EU. They're always going to be that empty spot in the middle of EU maps to piss off OCD people.

Ahahah man every time I see a EU map my inner ocd kicks in!

- - - Updated - - -

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

What the fuck?

[Thunderball]

I thought all of this topics were on agenda for a while now, how is it any surprise for anyone?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Assuming this document is genuine, your spin on this sounds like bullshit. I can't find any mention of stopping states having individual armies, and it is difficult to see how that would make any sense even if you wanted a federal army. There is no mention of NATO anywhere in the document (ctrl+f).

It is. Most of what he said isn't in it or in such a different way that it is hardly relevant. Not to mention everything is worded as a vague goal, which after the usual EU debates will be dulled even further. Fear mongering at it's finest, the sad part is I fear the illiterate are already spinning this to their advantage and given the reaction so far in this thread most people just lap it up..

[ati87]

What I find shocking is that the European Nations were unwilling to negotiate fully before the Brexit, and now they're making such wild and extreme changes. All I can say is, if this is the case, or was to be the case in the event we stayed, even as a Remain supporter, I'm glad we left.

Europe has gotten too large. It's gotten silly now, and it needs to be toned down a notch, not ramped up.

Uhm, the UK got exceptions on top of exceptions so maybe that's why they didn't want to talk further?

Judging by how the EU reacted overal they want the UK out sooner then later.

[Rafoel]

Assuming this document is genuine, your spin on this sounds like bullshit. I can't find any mention of stopping states having individual armies, and it is difficult to see how that would make any sense even if you wanted a federal army. There is no mention of NATO anywhere in the document (ctrl+f).

There isn't "my spin" on it... everything in my post is citation from the sites I listed, including the claim about individual armies:

Główne założenia dokumentu:

• Kraje członkowskie bez prawa do własnej armii i służb specjalnych.
• Unifikacja prawa karnego oraz systemu podatkowego.
• Państwa bez własnej waluty oraz banku centralnego.
• Jednolity system wizowy.
• Wspólna polityka zagraniczna względem innych państw oraz organizacji międzynarodowych.
• Ograniczona rola NATO.

[Deleted]

My hope is that in the future EU will become a single superstate. Wouldn't mind it at all.

[Hyve]

Uhm, the UK got exceptions on top of exceptions so maybe that's why they didn't want to talk further?

Judging by how the EU reacted overal they want the UK out sooner then later.

Every nation has exceptions to the rules applied to them. Let's not pretend that the UK was some special snowflake that so many claim it to be. While we got exceptions in some areas, others got them in key areas as well.

Secondly, a few bitter idiots want us out sooner rather than later. They can keep quiet and wait until they're asked to wade into the conversation quite frankly. They're bitter and upset we left, and want to make the situation worse. Many of the leaders themselves want to see the UK continue trade, for things to remain on good terms, but there are a few loud voices that are screaming abuse, and quite frankly it's already getting tiring.

[Stacyrect]

ROFL @ Everyone who said the EU was a good thing and ROFLMFAO @ everyone who said brexit was bad.

[Deleted]

Trying to conquer world with a military is so crude and passe, nowadays you do it through economical pressure of the richest powers and through political manipulation behind the scenes. "Globalization" ensures you have nowhere to run.

Also, Germany talking all high and mighty about burden of immigrants while it's mostly Mediterranean countries that became the dumpster for all the illegals sailing across the sea from Africa / Asia Minor.

EU in the idea was about solidarity and more developed regions budging in to help the lesser developed ones for higher prosperity overall and bigger strength of the whole EU. Nope, all we get is blaming the countries that are in crisis or poorer (like Ireland, Spain, Greece, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria etc.) while just exploiting the fact they're poorer, indebted, weaker and less developed. Forced common currency will only make economies of countries like Poland even less competitive, as it happened to for example Greece.

I'm pretty sure a superstate with one army and one government was the original idea. They just couldn't come out and say it after WW2. Needed to wait for a bit for the new generations with a different mindset to pop up.

[nonameelf]

Every nation has exceptions to the rules applied to them. Let's not pretend that the UK was some special snowflake that so many claim it to be. While we got exceptions in some areas, others got them in key areas as well.

Secondly, a few bitter idiots want us out sooner rather than later. They can keep quiet and wait until they're asked to wade into the conversation quite frankly. They're bitter and upset we left, and want to make the situation worse. Many of the leaders themselves want to see the UK continue trade, for things to remain on good terms, but there are a few loud voices that are screaming abuse, and quite frankly it's already getting tiring.

I thought it was just UK, Ireland, Denmark, and Poland that got to opt out of things.

[Deleted]

Nationalism is stupid and takes a while to die. All countries in Europe are already linked deeply through economy but further integration is good. Like, why wouldn't it be? Nationalist countries are a medieval concept. People gotta wake up, seriously. Being proud of a country when countries are lines on a map? I would rather be proud of helping other people. You know, even those with different skin tones and cultures.

[nonameelf]

Nationalism is stupid and takes a while to die. All countries in Europe are already linked deeply through economy but further integration is good. Like, why wouldn't it be? Nationalist countries are a medieval concept. People gotta wake up, seriously. Being proud of a country when countries are lines on a map? I would rather be proud of helping other people. You know, even those with different skin tones and cultures.

Why can't they help each other while remaining independent? Switzerland seems to do it just fine.

Countries are more than just lines on maps. Countries are also more than just their economy.