Remove LFR : FatBoss point of view

[Dzivoklis]

Let me turn the question around - why shouldn`t the LFR be a thing? It gives me an opportunity to slowly gear my +10 alts, gain some gold and maybe something cool like a pet.
I`ll never step my foot in the normal/HC/M with them, I`ve got main for that. But it feels nice having gear with which I then can go out in the world and do things.

[fwc577]

Often it's not about the other that get gear, but about the player that don't enjoy a content and have to do it.

If LFR players get gear good enough, actual raiders looking for optimisation (to race for realm first or against another guild that they know whatever) would have to do LFR. Thus it's not "Don't like it dont do it" anymore. What LFR players would say if they had to clean Normal once on a character before they could queue in LFR on their other chars ? They would be upset, so do raiders.

I'd be 100% fine with Normal replacing LFR in the group finder and set it so that they share lockouts. It just makes it easier than dealing with some random raid leader who might kick someone for being iLvL 710 when they only want 715+ while they are sitting at iLvL 700.

Group Finder in general is aids.

[Deleted]

because there is no content in WoD, in legion there's many ways to obtain gear, much more things to do, but forcing people into mythic dungeons/5mans/LFR for valor when they don't want any of the gear is plain retarded, eyyy run this content or your raid will kick you because you're 10 item levels behind them.

Yes, that's the problem.

I just explained why valor wasn't added to normal+ raids.

By the time they added valor, it was too late to completely change the way ou aqcuire gear in legion.

[Socialhealer]

They don't realize that unless new players are expected to get into raiding, it's not LFR that gets removed, it's raiding in all its forms.

keep dreaming you've been saying that for years, raiding will be around for as long as WoW is, it's like the rollercoaster of a theme park it's the big draw, the main attraction the ride people queue 3 hours in line for, get rid of it and your theme park will slowly die unless you replace it with something equally as epic, and blizzard are struggling to put content into the game after WoD, let alone remove their biggest draw.

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Yes, that's the problem.

I just explained why valor wasn't added to normal+ raids.

By the time they added valor, it was too late to completely change the way ou aqcuire gear in legion.

valor was in mop raids, that worked fine, then again blizzard wanted to do everything worse in wod.

[Joozt]

So much this. Normal is litterally faceroll on keyboard till boss dies. .

I usually just go and push auto attack and go back to my weekly TV series

[Osmeric]

keep dreaming you've been saying that for years,

Yes, and it's been true for years. If LFR gets removed, raiding goes with it.

[Osmeric]

So much this. Normal is litterally faceroll on keyboard till boss dies.

This is utter bullshit. It's not even true figuratively.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

Another thread where a bunch of people using group finder complain that people can queue up to raid... Honestly if people are using LFR why do you care so much?

[lunchbox2042]

Maybe they need to remove normal, not lfr.

[fwc577]

Let me turn the question around - why shouldn`t the LFR be a thing? It gives me an opportunity to slowly gear my +10 alts, gain some gold and maybe something cool like a pet.
I`ll never step my foot in the normal/HC/M with them, I`ve got main for that. But it feels nice having gear with which I then can go out in the world and do things.

The biggest problem is the gear from Raid Finder in this xpac was a joke. They nerfed the difficulty and nerfed the gear to uselessness.

At least LFR SoO was somewhat challenging. It was annoying that the patch had been out six months but people still struggled on some fights, such as Paragons.

I think I ran LFR maybe 10 times in all of Legion. Most of it was Highmaul at the start and a few times in BRF.

In SoO I was running LFR almost every week because it was a slight challenge. I ended up getting capes on like six or seven toons by the end of the expansion.

I've gotten 0 rings in Legion. The main reason is that LFR is just boring af and provides no other reward since I've gotten better gear from other sources.

[Deleted]

keep dreaming you've been saying that for years, raiding will be around for as long as WoW is, it's like the rollercoaster of a theme park it's the big draw, the main attraction the ride people queue 3 hours in line for, get rid of it and your theme park will slowly die unless you replace it with something equally as epic, and blizzard are struggling to put content into the game after WoD, let alone remove their biggest draw.

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valor was in mop raids, that worked fine, then again blizzard wanted to do everything worse in wod.

and at the end of mop people did nothing else that logging on once or twice a week to get their valor. They didn't want this in legion so they changed it. Valor could also be used for more than just upgrading in MoP.

[Fenderxx]

Always enjoy the Fatboss videos. Regardless of were you fall on the issue, I feel like they tried to have a serious conversation about the issue and I can respect that. Personally, I do think they need to move away from LFR.. but I don't think they should remove it in Legion. They should focus on improving the LFG tool, which is pretty good compared to the past expansions, so LFR is no longer needed and those players have other content to jump into.. such as normal mode as suggested in the video. It's a long term goal and I do think it would be better for the game.

[Osmeric]

Maybe they need to remove normal, not lfr.

That was MoP (before Flex was added). It was seen as a failure, because casual guilds had no guild end game content.

The real problem with LFR is that if someone is only doing LFR, they will clear it a few times and be done. LFR doesn't have the months-long progression of guild raiding. But that model itself has problems, because if you need gear progression, you inevitably get exclusion based on gear/achievements.

WoD could have worked better had (1) LFR gear not been so irrelevant (largely because of welfare PvP gear and because of LFR "ghetto tier"), and (2) normal had been tuned down a bit and with better scaling for smaller groups (HM/BRF were too difficult for Friends and Family guilds.) I think they tried to get people to move from LFR to Normal mode, and largely failed in that goal. Instead, MoP's LFR raiders seem to have mostly just stopped playing.

[fwc577]

Maybe they need to remove normal, not lfr.

Normal needs to become the new LFR in my opinion. Return it to how LFR was in MoP.

[Deleted]

Yes, and it's been true for years. If LFR gets removed, raiding goes with it.

That's bullshit. It's not the same player who are targeted. It's like saying "If Mythic gets removed, PvP goes with it" or "If dungeons gets removed, Professions goes with it", it's pure nonsense.

[Dzivoklis]

The biggest problem is the gear from Raid Finder in this xpac was a joke. They nerfed the difficulty and nerfed the gear to uselessness.

At least LFR SoO was somewhat challenging. It was annoying that the patch had been out six months but people still struggled on some fights, such as Paragons.

I think I ran LFR maybe 10 times in all of Legion. Most of it was Highmaul at the start and a few times in BRF.

In SoO I was running LFR almost every week because it was a slight challenge. I ended up getting capes on like six or seven toons by the end of the expansion.

I've gotten 0 rings in Legion. The main reason is that LFR is just boring af and provides no other reward since I've gotten better gear from other sources.

That`s raid design issue, I think. Only raid I liked in this expansion was BRF. Hate HFC and Highmaul felt more like a big dungeon.

[anon5123]

Don't like it ? Don't do it.

I know right?!? Removing something that people enjoy. How dare they!

I like how the pro-LFR crowd trivializes the issue down to "lol nobody is forcing you to do it"

The problem with LFR is that it makes people able to burn through the content at breakneck speed. It's retardedly easy to the point where you can just semi-afk and tunnel the boss the whole time, and still win.

You see how nowadays, people cry about there being "no content QQQ no content nothing to do blizzard sucks QQQQ" ? Well LFR is a contributing factor in that. Players don't feel compelled to improve because they can just see all of the content with the afk-ezmode difficulty.

As it is in WoD right now, you can hit 100 and in just a couple days of dungeon spam and Tanaan, be geared enough to clear all 3 of WoD's raids on LFR.

So in just 1 week, you've cleared all of the raid content in the expansion, because of LFR. That can't be good for keeping people subscribed.

[Phurox]

Often it's not about the other that get gear, but about the player that don't enjoy a content and have to do it.

If LFR players get gear good enough, actual raiders looking for optimisation (to race for realm first or against another guild that they know whatever) would have to do LFR. Thus it's not "Don't like it dont do it" anymore. What LFR players would say if they had to clean Normal once on a character before they could queue in LFR on their other chars ? They would be upset, so do raiders.

So raiders wants LFR shut down, because elist raid leaders wants to force his raid to do LFR to optimise performance?

Can you hear how selfish that is? "My raid leader controls my playtime and forces me to do LFR, please remove it so I cannot do it anymore".

Holy shit.

I hate Arena, but I dont tell Blizzard to remove Arenas from the game so I can get more conquest points from BG.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

LFR in Legion and MoP are both fine. WoD's LFR is getting removed and was the worst LFR ever since Cataclysm. LFR does -not- need to be removed since it got shifted back to MoP's LFR style.

[Deleted]

Fatboss guys clearly lives on a different planet than I do.

The reason why people like LFR is due to the automated group finder, where players cannot be excluded by a silly RL for any number of inane reasons. All the rest of Fatboss' arguments are thus null and void.

Personally I'm cool with adjusting the difficulty of LFR, say back to MoP levels, but normal mode LFG is not a replacement for LFR.