[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Gorsameth]

Question for everyone on beta, have you noticed, weird(for lack of better terms) spells popping up? Saw a post from a warrior who noticed literally HIDDEN artifact traits. "When dealing with things as powerful as some of the artifacts players will be acquiring in Legion, sometimes mysterious things happen."- Blue post about it

Havnt noticed it with shadow yet but the Disc artifact can overheat, causing its next use to deal significantly more damage.

It is very rare tho. Think I had it happen like 2 times during questing in an entire zone.

[Ilir]

Question for everyone on beta, have you noticed, weird(for lack of better terms) spells popping up? Saw a post from a warrior who noticed literally HIDDEN artifact traits. "When dealing with things as powerful as some of the artifacts players will be acquiring in Legion, sometimes mysterious things happen."- Blue post about it

It's been known for months ^^

Arcane mage staff will charge up if you're next to an arcanic source (increasing the damage iirc, with a buff). Hunters get helped by an eagle when they get low. Warriors get like a second chance if they manage to kill the mob.

etc etc.

We get whispers.

[Doodledoo]

maybe for you its been known for months, for me, a little over an hour.

[Djriff]

What @Ilir means is that we've been talking about it in this thread for ages. It was one of the first things we noticed about the weapon.

Incidentally i've yet to have any of it happen to me on either priest that i've leveled.

[Ifritx]

Oh shit, there's a big patch on the background downloader...

[Caladia]

THANK YOU for finding this. My math on the previous page was by no means wrong, and this explanation makes up the difference in damage. From the two links the guy posted with LotV vs MF (I can't post links sorry) I was confused about the difference in MF damage compared to MSpike damage.

MF does 200% SP over 4 ticks, which is 50% SP per tick. MSpike normal casts are 37% SP for cast so MF having an average of 52815 damage and MSpike having an average of 104854 damage in the sim made no sense till now. Your post shows that MSpike is actually being counted as 100.37% SP, which shows why MSpike is double the damage of MF on the sim.

I reported it to the AMR guys that their formula was off and causing issues. I picked up SimC so I can compare a bit more closely at home when playing with things so I don't go posting things that are wildly off. ><

[Djinn8]

Hi people , new to this forum; have been looking at them for a while. Wanted to say that as a person who likes conjuring spoopy ghosts that shadow priest feels amazing on the PTR and it looks fucking sweet.
On another topic thank you for also keeping me well informed over these past few months .

[Zoopercat]

@Doodledoo Yeah, there isn't a good place where this is all tracked, so no worries on asking. Actually, the "some warrior" who found it is our AskMrRobot dev, funny enough. He figured it out when programming the simulator. I don't think Blizzard has officially confirmed anything, as I try to keep up on all of the blue posts and tweets. But it's possible I missed something.
@Caladia hey, thanks for reporting that btw! It will be fixed in our update today. I'll swing by and let you know when that happens.

[Deleted]

I think you missed my point entirely. The number of voidform stacks you get to have no bearing on how well this talent performs. The talent is suppose to shine by getting you back into voidform faster. If you can get to 60-90 stacks without popping StM, then take StM anyways and just don't pop it. You'll have the same exact effect as LotV while you're in Voidform.

I have to disagree to an extent. I get what you're saying, completely, but LotV DOES profit from being able to stay in VF longer. One of us isn't thinking this through all the way, but we'll find out which one of us that is

LotV is beneficial for the Priest if you're aiming for a long VF, BECAUSE it does not include the ultimatum of dying once out of VF. This means exactly two things:

1. The longer we are in VF, the higher our Mass Hysteria ticks, obviously.
2. We can get to high Mass Hysteria + Haste stacks without paying the ultimate price of death after a maximum of 3 minutes.

No matter how you twist, turn, jist, and nudge things, the laws of Warcraft-Physics prevents StM gtom exceeding the duration of 3 minutes. In short: after 3 minutes TOPS you're dead, buddy. There's no escaping that.

LotV doesn't hold you to this "barrier," as it -potentially- let's you get to high stacks of VF without having to die for it - BUT obviously for not as long at a consecutive time.

NOW:

If you were to have good gear, your legendary shoulders (to make things easier), and some decent "skill," then I believe you'd be able to surpass the benefits that StM gives you (long, constant VF) with simply being able to hit high stacks of void form multiple times throughout the fight, and multiple times within a 3 minute + window.

Do you get what I'm trying to say now? Again, I might just be using the wrong thought-process here, but after all that's what this forum is for!

[Gorsameth]

I have to disagree to an extent. I get what you're saying, completely, but LotV DOES profit from being able to stay in VF longer. One of us isn't thinking this through all the way, but we'll find out which one of us that is

LotV is beneficial for the Priest if you're aiming for a long VF, BECAUSE it does not include the ultimatum of dying once out of VF. This means exactly two things:

1. The longer we are in VF, the higher our Mass Hysteria ticks, obviously.
2. We can get to high Mass Hysteria + Haste stacks without paying the ultimate price of death after a maximum of 3 minutes.

No matter how you twist, turn, jist, and nudge things, the laws of Warcraft-Physics prevents StM to exceed the duration of 3 minutes. In short: after 3 minutes TOPS you're dead, buddy. There's no escaping that.

LotV doesn't hold you to this "barrier," as it -potentially- let's you get to high stacks of VF without having to die for it - BUT obviously for not as long at a consecutive time.

NOW:

If you were to have good gear, your legendary shoulders (to make things easier), and some decent "skill," then I believe you'd be able to surpass the benefits that StM gives you (long, constant VF) with simply being able to hit high stacks of void form multiple times throughout the fight, and multiple times within a 3 minute + window.

Do you get what I'm trying to say now? Again, I might just be using the wrong thought-process here, but after all that's what this forum is for!

This reads like your thinking StM is always active, when infact you have to turn it on and when the fight is not ending within the next 3min you simply don't trigger it and enter/exit VF as normal (tho with slightly lower uptime then if you specced LotV

If you do account for this then just ignore me

[Deleted]

This reads like your thinking StM is always active, when infact you have to turn it on and when the fight is not ending within the next 3min you simply don't trigger it and enter/exit VF as normal (tho with slightly lower uptime then if you specced LotV

If you do account for this then just ignore me

Well if we compare the two, we have to take into account StM being active, or not? StM literally doesn't do anything unless you activate it and are in void form. It doesn't grant you anything if you just enter void form and play as if you hadn't specced it. And if that were to be the case, then LotV would've been the better choice, because of obvious reasons

And I wouldn't ignore you! Join the discussion!

[Djriff]

Ummm @Narline i think you missed where i said you take STM and you just don't pop it. LotV needs to be more than just a talent that reduces the req insanity. It should increase the cap or something else in addition to that, otherwise there's no reason to take it.

[Deleted]

Ummm @Narline i think you missed where i said you take STM and you just don't pop it. LotV needs to be more than just a talent that reduces the req insanity. It should increase the cap or something else in addition to that, otherwise there's no reason to take it.

??

Why would I take StM if I don't actually use it? I literally have no benefit of that in any way, shape or form. I would ,and I actually dislike using this word twice in a row, LITERALLY play as if I didn't specc into any level 100 talent. It would be the exact same thing.

Or did I miss something in a previous post?

[Gorsameth]

Well if we compare the two, we have to take into account StM being active, or not? StM literally doesn't do anything unless you activate it and are in void form. It doesn't grant you anything if you just enter void form and play as if you hadn't specced it. And if that were to be the case, then LotV would've been the better choice, because of obvious reasons

And I wouldn't ignore you! Join the discussion!

What you need to account is the increased uptime LotV gives you before StM is popped, compared to the lower uptime (and more importantly dropped Hysteria stacks) you have after StM is used.
A StM priest is still going to enter/exit VF before he uses StM.

The fact that in that final stretch StM never drops stocks while LotV has to keep rebuiling is pretty huge and may well outway the increased uptime LotV has prior to that.

And this also means that the longer the fight the more favored LotV is, there is a certain fight lenght where LotV is better then StM. Sims will hopefully help to figure out where that point is.

[Djriff]

??

Why would I take StM if I don't actually use it? I literally have no benefit of that in any way, shape or form. I would ,and I actually dislike using this word twice in a row, LITERALLY play as if I didn't specc into any level 100 talent. It would be the exact same thing.

Or did I miss something in a previous post?

That's my entire point. If you're able to hit 60-90 stacks of Voidform with LotV then you can hit it with no level 100 talent, so you might as well take StM, and just not use it.

[Deleted]

What you need to account is the increased uptime LotV gives you before StM is popped, compared to the lower uptime (and more importantly dropped Hysteria stacks) you have after StM is used.
A StM priest is still going to enter/exit VF before he uses StM.

The fact that in that final stretch StM never drops stocks while LotV has to keep rebuiling is pretty huge and may well outway the increased uptime LotV has prior to that.

And this also means that the longer the fight the more favored LotV is, there is a certain fight lenght where LotV is better then StM. Sims will hopefully help to figure out where that point is.

Valid point. We'll have to wait and see what works out - and how.

I'm uploading a boss kill in which I'm using LotV as we speak, but after rewatching the footage and comparing it to my StM videos, StM is still dominant. I really just kind of low-key hope LotV gets a chance eventually (even though StM is obviously loads of fun)!

- - - Updated - - -

That's my entire point. If you're able to hit 60-90 stacks of Voidform with LotV then you can hit it with no level 100 talent, so you might as well take StM, and just not use it.

My bad in that case man! I overthink stuff too much

[N1gh7h4wk]

I think that stm in most fights will be an endgame choice as they become shorter.
The strong factor about StM is the 100% haste along with 200% increased dot damage.
In short: think of your damage as exponential until you hit 100 stacks. From that you will likely hit a plateau and have big dick dps for as long as you survive.

If you drop out of that b/c you don't have StM at like 80 stacks, you miss the last 20 stacks of exponential dps growth and go back to a high haste but low dot dmg phase. Overall the difference will be a matter of fight length and mb t19 4pc. Finally we all will be picking StM in every fight as we gain gear b/c its just silly not to gain at least double the dps in the execute phase.

We have to think about shadow as reversed t18 arcane mage. They deal a low amount of damage in their conversion phase, but on pull and in every other burst phase they just crush every meter. Big burst will most likely result in the highest overall dps.

[Deleted]

Here it is guys: Ursoc on the Legion: Beta, using LotV (and according talents)!
Enjoy!

[Ilir]

I repeat : our level 100 talents are dumb.

One is the center of our class balance. The other one is an aberration that got nerfed (?). The last one is like hey, if you get the appropriate legendary item I might be worth it.

But tbh I'm used to it as a Shadowpriest so whatever.

I can't wait for the expac to hit live >.<

All I want now from the devs is : a glyph to make Voidform great again (tentacles) and for Void Eruption to refresh on the main target, atleast.

[Fleckens]

Here it is guys: Ursoc on the Legion: Beta, using LotV (and according talents)!
Enjoy!

Do you have optimised gear for this, and how many artifact traits do you have? As the damage felt kinda low, but i guess that's how big a difference stm makes. Like i did around 215k with stm but I also optimised my gear so I had like 8k crit, 6.5k haste, 2k mastery and 0 vers in there, with 16 traits. It feels like a fight you definitely want to run stm on though as there's not really anything that can prevent you from dps'ing, at least not on normal.