Hunters look like a complete mess...

[Sencha]

BM was initially my least favourite of the three hunter specs but it has grown on me. Super mobile, pretty easy and spammy spec. With Chimera Shot there shouldn't be any downtime during the rotation, which appears to be one of the main complaints about BM here. I agree that there aren't maybe any impactful and difficult decisions to be made concerning the rotation.

That's indeed the problem with BM. It's too simple.

But casuals will love it. And they are the new targeted audience in Legion obviously.

[Deleted]

That's indeed the problem with BM. It's too simple.

But casuals will love it. And they are the new targeted audience in Legion obviously.

they have been since wotlk.

Blizzard once said, they harder a spec is to play, the more damage it should deal as a reward. What bugs me about this, is simply that i wish to play BM and i want to deal competitive dps. The problem is simply, if the devs decide that BM should be a cake spec that deals crappy DPS, there is nothing i can do about it. The damage margin for hardcore tryhards compared to casual gamers gets smaller with each addon, its frustrating and it is not suprising that the competitive raid scene is dying out.

Now if SV turns out to be the best damage after the last balance pass, i am pretty much forced into playing a melee in order to min/max dps, which is even more retarded for me, since i never asked SV to be melee spec, neither do i wish to play one. The whole design path the game takes is very annoying to me.

[Deleted]

Blizzard once said, they harder a spec is to play, the more damage it should deal as a reward. .

No,they didnt.
In fact they stated just the opposite.

Having the performance of the spec tied to the complexity of the rotation means the player need to choose between playing a fun spec (for them) or having a great performance.

And that would be a horrible design.
The design goal (remark the "goal" concept) is that every spec does the same damage no matter how simple or complex is the rotation.

[Deleted]

No,they didnt.
In fact they stated just the opposite.

Having the performance of the spec tied to the complexity of the rotation means the player need to choose between playing a fun spec (for them) or having a great performance.

And that would be a horrible design.
The design goal (remark the "goal" concept) is that every spec does the same damage no matter how simple or complex is the rotation.

i am pretty sure they said otherwise back in cata. I havent played since cata, so maybe that changed.

[Deleted]

i am pretty sure they said otherwise back in cata. I havent played since cata, so maybe that changed.

All specs was better in cata than now atleast for me.

[c000]

Yeah good luck with that. They haven't touched MM in months, its as shit as it always has been.

they haven't done anything in months with hunters at all in any significant way...

[clevin]

The design goal (remark the "goal" concept) is that every spec does the same damage no matter how simple or complex is the rotation.

No, this isn't correct. They HAVE said that the want all specs to be easy to pick up and do decently with, hard to master. That way, aside from the very top echelon of play, almost anyone can play what they like, be viable (VIABLE, not OPTIMAL) and thus not be excluded because they're playing a spec that sucks unless played perfectly. In the meantime, a player who really masters a spec will see some result from that effort - they'll not only be viable, but top notch.

[munkeyinorbit]

they haven't done anything in YEARS with hunters at all in any significant way...

Fixed that for you. I still remember when they were trying to balance hunters for WoD, then they admitted they fucked it up and then AFTER that they made a post about making barrage a single target talent and that it provided depth to game play.

[Deleted]

they haven't done anything in months with hunters at all in any significant way...

Not remotely true. Last build alone shortened Hati's death timer to 30 seconds and made Fury of the Eagle castable while moving.

[Feanoro]

But casuals will love it. And they are the new targeted audience since ToC obviously.

Fixed that for you.

There's nothing wrong with a simple rotation in itself, especially if the fights are complex enough to require attention. Worse is that we've been stripped of most of our utility. We can't truly CC anything, getting mobs off healers to tanks is much more clunky, and kiting has had a bullet to the head.

[Bepples]

Not remotely true. Last build alone shortened Hati's death timer to 30 seconds and made Fury of the Eagle castable while moving.

The key word was "Significant". Hati really shouldn't be fucking dying at all (and honestly it really shouldn't be a thing at all) and Fury of the Eagle was originally castable while moving only to be nerfed in a later hotfix. This is just a reversion.

[Terminal Lance]

I remember them saying that harder to use talents (active > passive) *should* yield more reward in terms of damage/healing/surviving, but only on talents. I remember them saying that as well bitd. But leadership has changed over the years and they're more open to changes/experimentation now, I guess.
Just gave Survival a run in the PTR, though. I hate to say it, but... it works. The rotation feels good, there is just the right amount of RNG on Mongoose Bite resets, rarely Focus starved; and this is without the Artifact. I was gonna shy away from it come pre-patch, but now I might go Surv/BM instead.
Only thing I would really fix is some of the shit talents we have (Animal Instincts, WotMokna'thal, Mortal Wounds, Spitting Cobra, AotBeast).

[clevin]

Just gave Survival a run in the PTR, though. I hate to say it, but... it works...

Only thing I would really fix is some of the shit talents we have (Animal Instincts, WotMokna'thal, Mortal Wounds, Spitting Cobra, AotBeast).

Love that.

[Deleted]

The key word was "Significant". Hati really shouldn't be fucking dying at all (and honestly it really shouldn't be a thing at all) and Fury of the Eagle was originally castable while moving only to be nerfed in a later hotfix. This is just a reversion.

I guess significant is subjective. For me those changes made both specs playable, at least.

[Deleted]

Just gave Survival a run in the PTR, though. I hate to say it, but... it works. The rotation feels good, there is just the right amount of RNG on Mongoose Bite resets, rarely Focus starved; and this is without the Artifact.

you have way more haste and mastery on ptr than you would at level 100 thus the smoothness. Artifact weapon only has 1 resource altering perk which increases your pets haste by 15% ( more mongoose procs in theory ). On top of that most of the survi artifact perks seem bland and straight up damage increases to something. Very lazy design imo.

[Bladeweaver]

BM is actually pretty sound and is the spec I'm likely going with.
SV is interesting. It plays ok, but lacks the survivability that other pure melee classes have. Once you're up against a warrior, there's really no way to peel.
MM is....clunky. Aimed shot needs to go back to being cast on the move or made instant with whatever damage adjustments to compensate.

The specs shouldn't have a fragile viability thats dependant on legendary drops or set bonuses.

[shade3891]

I think the simplified survival artifact design is on purpose. As the specialization is already new, adding even more new stuff and mechanics might be confusing to (casual) players. I would like an extra stun or save button on survival, besides that it plays good.

Besides that, I would like Lone Wolf on survival aswell!

Marksmanship:
Aimed Shot: instant-cast with a 2-second cooldown? Would that be a good solution?

[Deleted]

its just subjective...

i LOVE easy speccs, and I also raid mythic till the end every content. its fine to have easier speccs and more complex speccs. if you dont like it, play something else. hunter was always one of the easier ones, if not the easiest overall. for my part thats exactly why im enjoying it. easy as hell to do lots of damage

EDIT: I also love what theyre doing with beastmaster and marksman in legion. i dont dig melee, though I think its cool to have a melee hunter specc.

[Sencha]

its just subjective...

i LOVE easy speccs, and I also raid mythic till the end every content. its fine to have easier speccs and more complex speccs. if you dont like it, play something else. hunter was always one of the easier ones, if not the easiest overall. for my part thats exactly why im enjoying it. easy as hell to do lots of damage.

If hunter has always been the easiest class, why making it even easier in Legion? How can people not be bored to death while playing?

[Deleted]

There was absolutely no point making survival melee spec, when they are already introducing yet another melee class to the game. Dark Ranger woulda been 100 times better from lore and class fantasy point of view and i woulda loved to be wannabe sylvanas male orc.