Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[minteK917]

Real life testing on beta says it´s by no means half, also Sub is NOT 20% below assassination, it´s pretty much tied or even a bit ahead.

There is no test so far that has been done that show sub ahead of assa on single target. Id like the link to this as well. Even testing on my own i cant reproduce higher substained single target on dummies, but i dont have all the gear the sims use.

[ymirsson]

Real life testing on beta says it´s by no means half, also Sub is NOT 20% below assassination, it´s pretty much tied or even a bit ahead.

So we can believe you, who has no credentials whatsoever, or the work of a team of people programming sim stuff since, i have no idea, long?

[PessimiStick]

Real life testing on beta says it´s by no means half, also Sub is NOT 20% below assassination, it´s pretty much tied or even a bit ahead.

Feel free to post evidence that backs your position here, because I certainly haven't found any. And especially not with how Akaari has been bugged for pretty much the entirety of alpha and beta. And Outlaw is hot garbage on beta, just like it sims.

[Shekora]

I think Outlaw is garbage, but we're lookin at it the wrong way. I'm on mobile but last night I matched up other average DPS specs ad most had around 130k DPS at ilvl 802. It seems that sub and ass are just exceptionally good and outlaw is average, but if you're playing a rogue there is no reason NOT to play ass.

[Deleted]

Patchwerk test or watching that guy streaming and exploiting a buff?

Mythic testing for example, even the numbers from doing mythic dungeons. I have played all specs extensively and outlaw is indeed behind but not by that much, and sub and assassination are pretty much neck and neck.

[Shekora]

Mythic testing for example, even the numbers from doing mythic dungeons. I have played all specs extensively and outlaw is indeed behind but not by that much, and sub and assassination are pretty much neck and neck.

How much DPS are you doing and at what ilvl? How complete is your artifact? Is it single target or multi target?

[Gentlepenguin]

Mythic testing for example, even the numbers from doing mythic dungeons. I have played all specs extensively and outlaw is indeed behind but not by that much, and sub and assassination are pretty much neck and neck.

You're like afraid to give numbers or something, you're just making generalizations. For all we know, you're just terrible at ass/sub and think outlaw is fine.

[Deleted]

You're like afraid to give numbers or something, you're just making generalizations. For all we know, you're just terrible at ass/sub and think outlaw is fine.

Afraid to give numbers? What´s stopping you from doing the same tests?

There is no "generalization" at all here. I am talking about in game testing.

I also think you are making shit up, since you seem to think i said outlaw is fine? Nowhere did I say that. But it is NOT half the dps of the other specs, as that guy with the sim posted. It is now pretty decent though, 400/500k dps on aoe is easy, and regular 200k+ on ST (844 ilvl). Jolly roger is now quite strong, also cannonball barrage feels like a 1 min cd now, nice damage.

[ymirsson]

Afraid to give numbers? What´s stopping you from doing the same tests?

There is no "generalization" at all here. I am talking about in game testing.

I also think you are making shit up, since you seem to think i said outlaw is fine? Nowhere did I say that. But it is NOT half the dps of the other specs, as that guy with the sim posted. It is now pretty decent though, 400/500k dps on aoe is easy, and regular 200k+ on ST (844 ilvl). Jolly roger is now quite strong, also cannonball barrage feels like a 1 min cd now, nice damage.

And you didnt even post a screenshot or whatsoever. For all we know, you could have rolled some dice to get those numbers. (pun intended)

[PessimiStick]

and regular 200k+ on ST (844 ilvl). Jolly roger is now quite strong

I don't believe you for a second. Post logs.

[Deleted]

I don't believe you for a second. Post logs.

-Log on beta

-Queue for an heroic dungeon

-Spec outlaw

-??

-Profit.

[ymirsson]

-Log on beta

-Queue for an heroic dungeon

-Spec outlaw

-??

-Profit.

That's not how it works. You claimed Outlaw is strong, now you would need to prove it.

[Deleted]

That's not how it works. You claimed Outlaw is strong, now you would need to prove it.

Please stop dreaming, never did I say such a thing. I dont even know why I am replying to pure fantasy.

[Zoyt]

Please stop dreaming, never did I say such a thing. I dont even know why I am replying to pure fantasy.

Mythic testing for example, even the numbers from doing mythic dungeons. I have played all specs extensively and outlaw is indeed behind but not by that much, and sub and assassination are pretty much neck and neck.

You claimed sub and assa to be neck and neck assa is one of the strongest specs in the game atm so if outlaw is a little behind assa then you're saying the spec is strong, as outlaw should probably never be close to sub or assa.

[Mafic]

I think this arguing is pointless until they switch around the numbers for Grand Melee and any other damage buffs to Outlaw. If they fix Grand Melee, undo the damage nerfs, than Outlaw is a lot better, but arguably needs more tuning.

[PessimiStick]

-Log on beta

-Queue for an heroic dungeon

-Spec outlaw

-??

-Profit.

Except don't profit, because Outlaw is junk.

[Deleted]

Except don't profit, because Outlaw is junk.

Meanwhile, in the real world:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...FCzpTg#fight=2

This is with 13 mythic guild testing xavius, more specifically the trash gauntlet before it. I played really badly on it, did not have strongest talents because I didnt even know how that trash worked, also all the gear was my sub set (forgot to change, so wrong stats completely). So I probably should have squeezed in another 10 million easily.

This spec is very far from what people think it is, and that sim result from before was ridiculous. It hasnt been "trash" for at least a patch now.

[Deleted]

Meanwhile, in the real world:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...FCzpTg#fight=2

This is with 13 mythic guild testing xavius, more specifically the trash gauntlet before it. I played really badly on it, did not have strongest talents because I didnt even know how that trash worked, also all the gear was my sub set (forgot to change, so wrong stats completely). So I probably should have squeezed in another 10 million easily.

This spec is very far from what people think it is, and that sim result from before was ridiculous. It hasnt been "trash" for at least a patch now.

so what you chose as an example and "proof" that outlaw isn't trash is... the trash before Xavius..? ba-dum-tssh

and even so, not counting the other outlaw who is LAST on that trash, from the 7 dps'ers you are 5th, with the 7th having died. way to prove your point, pal.

[Deleted]

Meanwhile, in the real world:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...FCzpTg#fight=2

This is with 13 mythic guild testing xavius, more specifically the trash gauntlet before it. I played really badly on it, did not have strongest talents because I didnt even know how that trash worked, also all the gear was my sub set (forgot to change, so wrong stats completely). So I probably should have squeezed in another 10 million easily.

This spec is very far from what people think it is, and that sim result from before was ridiculous. It hasnt been "trash" for at least a patch now.

It's not FAR from what we think, in an AOE situation it seems like it is indeed better than we thought it would be, but you still can't provide evidence to what the dmg /dps is in ST situations, because thats what the sim was, and that is half the dmg of what the other two specs are capable of.

You should know that "we" rogues are a volk auf theoriecrafters, thats why we want evidence, so we can provide quality feedback, without just saying: "Dmg is to low/strong, pls buff/nerf us. That is indeed shit feedback, because it doesn't say anything but "we are whiners so listen to us".

[Deleted]

so what you chose as an example and "proof" that outlaw isn't trash is... the trash before Xavius..? ba-dum-tssh

and even so, not counting the other outlaw who is LAST on that trash, from the 7 dps'ers you are 5th, with the 7th having died. way to prove your point, pal.

Maybe you cant read numbers, but my point was that outlaw is not doing half the damage of other specs, which this proves, amply.