The NATO - Russia Thread

[JohnBrown1917]

Insane, isn't it? I mean Russia is responsible for MH17, the War in Donbass and the annextion of Crimea and people think NATO is too aggressive?

Its strange to see some people in my country also react to it that way, only in internet comments though, which is where you'll find most stupid shit.


Sending troops requested by your allies is aggression these days.

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People on the West like to hate on their governments and organizations. Overblown culture of criticism. That's what makes some side with crazy states like Russia, China or Iran: if they are opposed to our government, then apparently they can't be bad!

Middle grounds are hard to follow, it seems.


If you dislike the US, they think you like Russia and vica verse. That both would love to fuck with the EU for profit is just not something many understand, they think only one of those countries can do bad.
It almost sounds like cold war propaganda.

[Ulmita]

He's one of these people who talks so much shit, gets caught for saying it and you honestly wish he'd say "Oh, I was wrong" and back away from the topic.

Nah Crispin is in his own imaginary world, completely ignoring the fact that Germans not only has been calling for lifting the sanctions and normalizing relationships with Europe, but also called NATO to stop warmongering.
Not only that Germany has also a year ago called NATO (when under general Breedolove) to stop spreading propaganda about Eastern Ukraine.

Said poster also completely ignores the rest of the list. He is trying to start a flamewar and in all honesty he aint worth any more time.
Also, good job on being the sidekick again =)

[Ulmita]

And you post an article that compares the F-35 and the F-18F to the Flanker. Do you not wonder why they used them and not comparable heavy air superiority fighters?

It also compares BVR missiles.
Also, i'd take a SU-35 any day over any other 4+ (typhoon or f-15) if they are using the a120. The meteor changes the game.
Not sure how the k77 holds against it though.

[May90]

Middle grounds are hard to follow, it seems.


If you dislike the US, they think you like Russia and vica verse. That both would love to fuck with the EU for profit is just not something many understand, they think only one of those countries can do bad.
It almost sounds like cold war propaganda.

Usual mentality: "Either you are with us, or against us".

They are bad.
The problem is that NATO is acting like we're the good guys and everyone else is bad.
People see through that, NATO is just as bad as the others.

A few months ago a Russian jet flew low over an American warship near the Russian border.
Who's the aggressor in that story?

You see it that way, because you want it to be that way, so you could point your finger at NATO and say, "Look at how these guys are acting!".

Meanwhile, Russia has annexed part of Ukraine and cut off two parts from Georgia - both acts not recognized as legal by anyone but a few other authoritarian states. But "NATO is the aggressor, boooooo". Mental gymnastics are astounding.

[Kellhound]

It also compares bvr missiles kell

When launched from respective platforms.... Do you even understand AAM combat?

[PeterTheGreat]

No.
A civil war in Ukraine is responsible for MH17.
The oppression from Kiev is responsible for the civil war in Donbass.
Without a violent coup Crimea would have never been saved by the Russians.

Really?

[Kellhound]

It also compares BVR missiles.
Also, i'd take a SU-35 any day over any other 4+ (typhoon or f-15) if they are using the a120. The meteor changes the game.
Not sure how the k77 holds against it though.

AA-12: 110km, AIM-120D: 160km. Su-35: Mach 2.25, F-15: Mach 2.5
If you dont understand the importance of those numbers, well....

[JohnBrown1917]

Usual mentality: "Either you are with us, or against us".


You see it that way, because you want it to be that way, so you could point your finger at NATO and say, "Look at how these guys are acting!".

Meanwhile, Russia has annexed part of Ukraine and cut off two parts from Georgia - both acts not recognized as legal by anyone but a few other authoritarian states. But "NATO is the aggressor, boooooo". Mental gymnastics are astounding.

I don't even see NATO as the good guys, its silly do in terms of war and alliances.

the allies in WWII might come close to it, but Russia did some fucked up shit(just read part Of Erich Hartmanns biography when he was delivered to the Russians alongside a bunch of German citizens).

[May90]

The irony.

Just because Russia is doing shit in Georgia doesn't mean the NATO is not behaving retardly aggressive.

We are talking about the Russia vs NATO thing. In this situation, NATO is not behaving retardly aggressive, and Russia does.

NATO does behave aggressive sometimes, especially in the Middle East. No one said NATO was saint guys; like any other alliance, NATO cares, first and foremost, about its members' interests and not about doing "good" in the world.

Doesn't mean that in this particular situation you should play the same old track, "NATO is the aggressor!", ignoring the facts and events which you can actually see in the world, and putting faith in crazy conspiracy theories instead. But then, conspiracy theories are easier, because they can't be proven wrong.

I don't even see NATO as the good guys, its silly do in terms of war and alliances.

the allies in WWII might come close to it, but Russia did some fucked up shit(just read part Of Erich Hartmanns biography when he was delivered to the Russians alongside a bunch of German citizens).

Exactly. It is not about "good guys vs bad guys". It is definitely not as one-dimensional as some see it - but it is also pretty clear who has caused the situation.

[Ausr]

Nah Crispin is in his own imaginary world, completely ignoring the fact that Germans not only has been calling for lifting the sanctions and normalizing relationships with Europe, but also called NATO to stop warmongering.
Not only that Germany has also a year ago called NATO (when under general Breedolove) to stop spreading propaganda about Eastern Ukraine.

Said poster also completely ignores the rest of the list. He is trying to start a flamewar and in all honesty he aint worth any more time.
Also, good job on being the sidekick again =)

The fuck are you talking about? I was talking about you, slick. Why the hell would I ever praise your shit?

[Deleted]

Quick question:
Baltic states pretends to be threatened by Russia.
We send military there to hold training.
How much money does this generate for the Baltic states?

a loot less money compared on what they loss in having a strained relation with Russia (loss of Russian trade/tourists)

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Germans not only has been calling for lifting the sanctions and normalizing relationships with Europe

So you trust the Germans now? was not the Germans the evil guys? So you acepte the (russia shall) “stop supporting the militants and withdraw its forces from Ukrainian territory” as they speak in the articel to? or you only cherry pick the parts you like?

[Macaquerie]

I don't even see NATO as the good guys, its silly do in terms of war and alliances.

the allies in WWII might come close to it, but Russia did some fucked up shit(just read part Of Erich Hartmanns biography when he was delivered to the Russians alongside a bunch of German citizens).

All those stories of Soviet rape during WW2 seem sketchy to me though, because they do come off as a rather blatant attempt by Nazis to rationalize their own crimes by insinuating that the Soviets were even worse.

[May90]

All those stories of Soviet rape during WW2 seem sketchy to me though, because they do come off as a rather blatant attempt by Nazis to rationalize their own crimes by insinuating that the Soviets were even worse.

Accords come from various sources: Nazi generals, German citizens, Russian soldiers, Western soldiers... Plus records of stunning rate of abortion requests at the time.

[Macaquerie]

Accords come from various sources: Nazi generals, German citizens, Russian soldiers, Western soldiers... Plus records of stunning rate of abortion requests at the time.

It's indisputable that Russian soldiers committed rape on a massive scale, but it's just odd the way it's presented. It's as if someone is dead set on convincing us the Soviets were the only ones guilty of this and German soldiers were all honorable patriots who were in no way complicit in the Holocaust or any other Nazi war crimes.

[May90]

It's indisputable that Russian soldiers committed rape on a massive scale, but it's just odd the way it's presented. It's as if someone is dead set on convincing us the Soviets were the only ones guilty of this and German soldiers were all honorable patriots who were in no way complicit in the Holocaust or any other Nazi war crimes.

I don't know; both sides have got a lot of heat in post-WW2 years, I'd say. Nowadays though, since Germany is one of the leading Western countries, while Russia still plays its own game - it is only reasonable to expect people to be more biased against Soviet Union in these matters.

[Ulmita]

AA-12: 110km, AIM-120D: 160km. Su-35: Mach 2.25, F-15: Mach 2.5
If you dont understand the importance of those numbers, well....

Right now SUs can turn and out run the AiM-120D when fired from 80 km away while the rest of their pack engages. Thus why i said the ramjet meteor is a game changer. Also, the aa-12 is their MEDIUM range bvr missile lol. PAK-FA will sport Izdeliye 810, (might be a derivative of the 150 km r-37 but not confirmed yet)

[Deleted]

I don't even see NATO as the good guys, its silly do in terms of war and alliances.

the allies in WWII might come close to it, but Russia did some fucked up shit(just read part Of Erich Hartmanns biography when he was delivered to the Russians alongside a bunch of German citizens).

Was that when the Germans were killing 27 000 000 Russians? Fyi look at what entire Eastern Europe did to Germans after the war as payback, drove them out, but you single out Russians, and speak as if Russians just woke up one day being anti-German, being invaded n having their peoples killed by the millions is no reason to dislike Germans??? Gtfo troll.

Oh, you are the clown that thinks Russia will invade the Balkans for some reason, any minute.

[Ulmita]

Was that when the Germans were killing 27 000 000 Russians? Fyi look at what entire Eastern Europe did to Germans after the war as payback, drove them out, but you single out Russians, and speak as if Russians just woke up one day being anti-German, being invaded n having their peoples killed by the millions is no reason to dislike Germans??? Gtfo troll.

Oh, you are the clown that thinks Russia will invade the Balkans for some reason, any minute.

Russia is already invading Greece dude. Do you know how many Russians are bathing in our islands AS WE SPEAK? They are kremlin soldiers, i shit you not.

[Shalcker]

Russia is already invading Greece dude. Do you know how many Russians are bathing in our islands AS WE SPEAK? They are kremlin soldiers, i shit you not.

On vacation!

[Ulmita]

On vacation!

Your plan is to surround the NATO base in Greece!!! I know it!!

On other (relative) news:

NATO article from the biggest Greek online media: http://www.zougla.gr/kosmos/article/...no8en-tou-nato

Title reads: How many of you read NATO's Communique?

Some interesting parts:

Το ανακοινωθέν της συνόδου κορυφής των χωρών-μελών του ΝΑΤΟ στη Βαρσοβία υποστηρίζει ότι η Συμμαχία είναι ζωτικής σημασίας, λόγω της ρωσικής επιθετικότητας.

Το ακριβώς αντίθετο συμβαίνει: το ΝΑΤΟ αποτελεί το όργανο για την επιδιωκόμενη από τις ΗΠΑ κλιμάκωση της εξαιρετικά επικίνδυνης σύγκρουσης με τη Ρωσία. Ο κόσμος δεν χρειάζεται περισσότερο ΝΑΤΟ, αλλά όσο το δυνατόν λιγότερο…

Translates to:

The communique of the summit of the countries-members of NATO in Warsaw argues that the alliance (NATO) is absolutely vital because of Russian aggression.

The exact opposite is happening: NATO is an instrument for the purposefully USA escalation of very dangerous conflict with Russia. World doesn't need more NATO but as less as possible.

Η ρωσική απειλή: Χάρτης που δείχνει πως το ΝΑΤΟ απειλείται από την περικυκλωμένη από τις βάσεις του Ρωσία…

Translates to: A map that shows how NATO is in danger from Russia surrounding its bases.

and it ends up with this RT video:



The site is trolling NATO non stop, it quite worths the read if you have time =)