Bernie Sanders Endorses Hillary Clinton for President

[Beazy]

I know this is hard to believe, but some people vote for who they think is best suited to run our country, not the train wreck or the shit bomb. Saying that vote for a 3rd party candidate is a waste of a vote is asinine and utterly ridiculous.

People only say that when their candidate will be hurt from it.

Since Bernie endorsed Hilldog, theres a new hashtag in town #JillB4Hill
I think people are over estimating the support Hillary will get from Bernie supporters.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I don't disagree with you, and I don't dismiss the consequences. It just proves how tragic our two party system truly is. Too many people refuse or can't think outside of the "Donald Dump or Crooked Hillary" paradigm.

The issue is that you need to actually win states, which in most cases probably means you need at least 30-40% of votes in a state or district iirc. If you fall short of that you essentially gain nothing, well they might invite your party to the discussions in the next election :/.

[zEmini]

Third Party.

People keep telling me that voting for Gary Johnson will mean Hillary in the white house. Friends of mine who want too vote Stein are told that will put Trump in the white house. Honestly if you keep preaching that, YOU are part of the problem. People are too scared to vote third because the other shitty candidate will become president - when in fact both candidates are a douche bag turd sandwich.

[Gray_Matter]

I know this is hard to believe, but some people vote for who they think is best suited to run our country, not the train wreck or the shit bomb. Saying that a vote for a 3rd party candidate is a waste of a vote is asinine and utterly ridiculous.

On a personal level it wouldn't be a waste but from the point of view that it accomplishes anything in the big scheme of things, it doesn't. If anything, it supports the opposition of the person closest to your ideals. So if your ideals are closest to Trump and you vote for a third party then you are effectively partially supporting his opposition.

The reason why I say that is because the country is pretty evenly divided. You can be assured that hard core conservatives are going to vote for Trump but the hard core liberals, by deciding to stick to their guns, are effectively shooting themselves in the foot. The big parties aren't going to change unless more liberals are elected on the down ballot and the third parties will remain small because they don't have enough critical mass.

Bernie has the right idea. Try and change the party from the inside. It's progressives best chance for changing things.

I think that Stein is more interested in her own party than progressive values. If she was interested in progressive values then she would pull out of all of the swing states and only register in true blue and true red states. She should say that vote dem in swing states and vote green in red and blue states. Why do I say that? Because there is no way she can win. The only thing she can accomplish is to be a spoiler for the dems and try and get 5% for federal funding. She is after the 5% and she doesn't care what the cost is. That cost will be a 5-2 SCOTUS which will hurt progressive values for 20-30 years.

The ultra conservatives don't have any party to split their votes but the liberals do.

It might make you feel good to vote third party in a swing state but ultimately it's only going to hurt you in the long run if you are a progressive.

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I don't disagree with you, and I don't dismiss the consequences. It just proves how tragic our two party system truly is. Too many people refuse or can't think outside of the "Donald Dump or Crooked Hillary" paradigm.

I don't disagree with you there. The two party system is flawed but the consequences are very real. The way to change it is to support down ballot progressives. Look what the Tea Party was able to accomplish with the GOP.

[SupBrah]

Voting for Trump. That cancer known as Hillary Clinton can't be let into the white house.

[BrerBear]

I think people are over estimating the support Hillary will get from Bernie supporters.

I think people are overestimating the Bernie supporters who hate Hillary vs. those who just liked him better. The polling data backs me up.

[Yvaelle]

Third Party.

People keep telling me that voting for Gary Johnson will mean Hillary in the white house. Friends of mine who want too vote Stein are told that will put Trump in the white house. Honestly if you keep preaching that, YOU are part of the problem. People are too scared to vote third because the other shitty candidate will become president - when in fact both candidates are a douche bag turd sandwich.

Yep, vote for whoever you want. In the grand scheme your vote for a third party is still far, far, far more useful to the political process than then like, 60-70%(?) of Americans who don't even vote. If you refuse to vote for either shitty candidate, help fix the system by supporting a third party - rather than not voting at all. It doesn't matter which third party you support - they won't get elected - but if they start getting more support they will eventually become a more important, and perhaps in a few election cycles, viable.

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I think people are overestimating the Bernie supporters who hate Hillary vs. those who just liked him better. The polling data backs me up.

Which poll?

A June 14 Bloomberg Politics national poll of likely voters in November’s election found that barely half of those who favored Sanders -- 55 percent -- plan to vote for Clinton. Instead, 22 percent say they’ll vote for Trump, while 18 percent favor Libertarian Gary Johnson.

[Beazy]

Which poll?

A June 14 Bloomberg Politics national poll of likely voters in November’s election found that barely half of those who favored Sanders -- 55 percent -- plan to vote for Clinton. Instead, 22 percent say they’ll vote for Trump, while 18 percent favor Libertarian Gary Johnson.

I have a bad feeling were going to get Trump as a president, and the entire country is going to be stuck in a frost nova socially and politically for four years.

[Gray_Matter]

I don't disagree, but you also can not dismiss the potential consequences of a third party resulting in a Trump whitehouse.

It's also more complex because the dem party is a coalition of groups. Let sassume for the sake of the argument that there was only 2 groups, the unions and the progressives. They have about 70% in common with the union members being more moderate. Lets say, for the argument, that they both make up 30% of the electorate. The other party has about 40% in common with the unions and 40% of the overall voter base. If both of them put up a candidate and the loser always decides to never support the winner unless its their candidate (progressives go with the greens when they lose and the unions don't vote when they lose) then the dem party would never win. Both the unions and the progressives would lose out because the other party has much less in common with them. The whole point in a coalition is that you put forward your best candidate and if they don't win then you support the other one because at least it's better than the opposition. It stinks but it's still better.

[BrerBear]

Which poll?

Why, this more recent and more prestigious Pew poll.

Support for Clinton is slightly higher among Democrats and Democratic leaners who backed Sanders in the primary contests: 85% say they plan to vote for Clinton in the general election, compared with 9% who say they will vote for Trump and 6% who volunteer that they will voter for another candidate or don’t know.

(Not surprised to see you pretend you aren't aware of it.)

[Yvaelle]

Why, this more recent and more prestigious Pew poll.

More prestigious is a bit questionable, "The analysis in this report is based on telephone interviews conducted June 15-26, 2016 among a national sample of 2,245 adults, 18 years of age or older, living in all 50 U.S. "

85% of Sanders supporters who own landlines and agree to respond to random phone surveys.*

I suspect there is a strong bias amongst the millennial Sanders community to not own a landline, and not agree to phone surveys.

[Skroe]

Every single one of you Bernie Bros absolutely deserve this and I hope this lesson sticks with you.

It won't, because you fought a stupid fight stupidly and lost badly, but maybe one percentage of you will learn something.

What's the lesson? Nobody gives a flying shit about your passion. Politics and passion is ultimately about making yourself feel better. Politics is about organization, resources, strategy and money. Bernie Sanders had an amateur hour organization, barely generated resources, basically no strategy to speak of. He did have money though.

When confronted with this, you people... you non-serious people ... wailed about the Clinton Machine and the banks or some other shit. Completely ignoring the fact that 8 years ago Obama went up against an even tougher machine, and won, despite immense disadvantages compared to Clinton, by being resourceful, innovative and smart.

You people ultimately fucked yourselves. You let Sanders run a campaign that barely did the minimum to be a rival campaign, and let it get away with murder, because you liked him and you liked his message. In whatever you do... WHATEVER IT IS.... that is ass backwards. If you liked Sanders, you should have held him, and his campaign to the highest, hardest fucking standards.

Instead here you people are, depressed your money is going to "Hilldog".

What I said doesn't even strike at your liberal beliefs and how it didn't even find close to a majority of believers among the liberal party of this country. This is about how you played the game, and it's incompetence was only overshadowed by how stunningly inept all the Republicans not named Ted Cruz ran their campaigns.

I said it three months ago: If Sanders wanted to win, he needed to be innovative to counter Hillary's structural advantages. He wasn't so he lost. Obama, facing the same hurdles, wrote the campaign playbook that Hillary in 2016 and Ted Cruz (in 2016) have emulated. You people didn't think it important enough. Big mistake. It is.

Moreover exactly as discussed months ago, was the deplorable way he spent his money:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...lutionary.html

Sanders collected $27 donations from you folks, and gave it to permanent standing campaign groups - basically campaign squads for hire - that do work for presidents, senators, congressmen, even other countries. Except in Bernie's case, this was directed by a small squadron of individuals who have advocated for the perennial also-rans, going back to the late 1980s. Basically, your money went to people who generally don't win campaigns.

Where was your outrage about that? Where was the accountability? Hillary didn't put your ambitions in the dirt. Obama didn't. The American people certainly didn't. You folks did, but being deluded into Sanders' happy pillow talk about free college, student loan debt relief, the banks, so on and so forth, while not taking a critical eye to the man and his duct tapped together machine.

"But he's a good man". Yeah nobody gives a shit. He's a "good man" who is 74 years old, got basically nothing on the Democratic platform other than $15/hr minimum wage, and got a lot of hopes up. You think you want a good man... but you don't. You want a vicious son of a bitch who is a fighter. That's not a pro-hillary thing. That's a pro-life thing. Good men are victims of aggressive, smart men. It's the way of the world.

So once more, perhaps for the last time. Fuck Bernie Sanders, Fuck the Bernie Bernie Bros, Fuck Socialism, Fuck his platform, and Fuck his campaign. The people who lost deserved to lose. And they deserve to know the extent of their loss.

And for all you sore losers who say "oh I'm gonna vote for Trump or Jill Stein", have a fucking party. Do it. Nobody cares. Hillary doesn't need to win over Sanderistas in California or Massachusetts or Oregon. She needs to win in lands where there aren't many Bernie Bros, at least, compared to independents and anti-Trump conservatives, like Flordia, Virginia, Ohio and Pennsylvannia. You folks staying home means she may carry New York by 10 points instead of 15. But her appeal to her right flank in centrist and conservative states is what will win her the election.

In otherwords, Bernie Sanders supporters... progressives... unless you live in a swing state, your role in this election is done and your democratic vote does not matter. You can stay home. Nobody cares. You are irrelevant. That is the cold hard truth in our electoral college system.


And because I'm just about done... here is Hillary, Democratic Nominee for President, trolling the shit out of you. On your knees and kiss the ring.



$27!

[BrerBear]

More prestigious is a bit questionable, "The analysis in this report is based on telephone interviews conducted June 15-26, 2016 among a national sample of 2,245 adults, 18 years of age or older, living in all 50 U.S. "

BWAHAHAHA

OK. Let me finish that sentence you so interestingly truncated...

The analysis in this report is based on telephone interviews conducted June 15-26, 2016 among a national sample of 2,245 adults, 18 years of age or older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia (559 respondents were interviewed on a landline telephone, and 1,686 were interviewed on a cell phone, including 1,067 who had no landline telephone).

Really? I mean, really Yvaelle?

[Yvaelle]

BWAHAHAHA

OK. Let me finish that sentence you so interestingly truncated...

Really? I mean, really Yvaelle?

Honestly skipped it when I confirmed what I suspected in the first sentence, so shoot me for that sure - I deserve that - but the second point stands that, generally, people who answer random phone surveys tend to live in old folks homes ;p

[Sky High]

not at all unexpected. the cries from Tumblr are all the more assuming.

[Skroe]

not at all unexpected. the cries from Tumblr are all the more assuming.

Cries from Tumblr... lol. I honestly don't understand who would use Tumblr for more than fap material. It's a dogshit website.

This has genuinely been the stupidest election cycle ever. I'm so ready for it to be over.

[Sky High]

Cries from Tumblr... lol. I honestly don't understand who would use Tumblr for more than fap material. It's a dogshit website.

This has genuinely been the stupidest election cycle ever. I'm so ready for it to be over.

it's good for meme's, A+ quality smut and headaches. fucking middle schoolers.

[Gray_Matter]

Yep, vote for whoever you want. In the grand scheme your vote for a third party is still far, far, far more useful to the political process than then like, 60-70%(?) of Americans who don't even vote. If you refuse to vote for either shitty candidate, help fix the system by supporting a third party - rather than not voting at all. It doesn't matter which third party you support - they won't get elected - but if they start getting more support they will eventually become a more important, and perhaps in a few election cycles, viable.

That's a huge risk to take and at what cost? Ironically, the majority of the Bernie or Bust crowd won't be seriously effected by 20+ years of a conservative majority SCOTUS. They are white liberals who are in college or generally have decent jobs. The people that will suffer are the ones on minimum wage or the groups like the LGBT community.

Which poll?

A June 14 Bloomberg Politics national poll of likely voters in November’s election found that barely half of those who favored Sanders -- 55 percent -- plan to vote for Clinton. Instead, 22 percent say they’ll vote for Trump, while 18 percent favor Libertarian Gary Johnson.

Here is a more recent one saying 85%:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...g-their-noses/

[Skroe]

Yep, vote for whoever you want. In the grand scheme your vote for a third party is still far, far, far more useful to the political process than then like, 60-70%(?) of Americans who don't even vote. If you refuse to vote for either shitty candidate, help fix the system by supporting a third party - rather than not voting at all. It doesn't matter which third party you support - they won't get elected - but if they start getting more support they will eventually become a more important, and perhaps in a few election cycles, viable.

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Which poll?

A June 14 Bloomberg Politics national poll of likely voters in November’s election found that barely half of those who favored Sanders -- 55 percent -- plan to vote for Clinton. Instead, 22 percent say they’ll vote for Trump, while 18 percent favor Libertarian Gary Johnson.

Oh for shits sake.



Like what are you doing Yvaelle? Honestly. What in gods name are you doing?

You don't get to make a power claim that supports your ENTIRE argument aobut the utility of your vote that 60-70% of Americans don't vote, when 58% of eligible voters did in 2012, and that's pretty much the average of the last 70 years, never spiking above 64% (and it was 62% in 2008!).

This is your problem. This is the Sanderistas' problem. You folks have been criminal in massaging the numbers. You work backwards from the grand declaration (groundless by the way), that Sanderista positions are popular and it's some scheme by the powerful, the elite, the bigoted or whatever that is screwing the obvious from becoming law, You guys aren't the majority of even the Democratic Party, by a long shot, so you fiddle with figures, like you just did, to fabricate a "70% of Americans don't vote" fantasy.

Honestly, how do you expect to win? You'll never win by engaging in works of fiction. You'll win playing on the same reality-based battlefield that everyone else does, rather than an fantasy one where there are millions upon millions of would-be Sanders voters out there.

You're not fighters. None of you. You pretend you are. But you want your victory now. You, none of you, won't do the necessary incremental, painful work of winning 20 years from now. Progressives never have and never will because compared to the establishment they lack the discipline and the organization. They have the conviction, but that's never been enough and never will be.

When I said, a long time ago, in some ways Sanders is every bit the villain in the 2016 cycle as Trump, this is impart what I mean. Never before has outright lying, as you just did, been an acceptable tactic. Bernie did it all the time. His followers do it all the time. Trump does it all the time. The truth isn't malleable, and a 58% turnout in 2012 is 58% period. And if you want to include everyone under 18 or those who can't vote for one reason or another, in a pathetic attempt to buff your numbers, well too bad. That's not how voting works in any country, and never will. Six year old's will not get the vote.

[Deleted]

Here is a more recent one saying 85%:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...g-their-noses/

Yeah... It should be noted, though, that the Washington Post is one of the worst anti-Bernie propaganda machines out there. They will post whatever they like as headlines, whether straying a little from the truth, or far from it. I've been following news headlines throughout the primary season, and the worst propaganda headlines were from, you guessed it, the Washington Post.

Oh, and here's something fun from January:



And that Pew poll they're quoting, by the way, was already addressed before. It's Democrats and Democratic-leaners, and, as we full well know, old people, since young people won't have a landline, nor will they be answering phone polls.

Here's their methodology: http://www.people-press.org/2016/07/07/methodology-74/

So 85% of the old Democrats who answered that poll will vote for Hillary, and it's highly questionable whether they voted Sanders to begin with. The vast majority of Sanders' supporters are young independents.