Fury Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Neither of those are correct. The exacts are dependent on your actual stats and the talents you use, but the most common is Haste > Vers > Master = Crit. The last three are fluid but always very close. For high levels of haste in pre-patch (40%+), it will probably shift to something closer to Mastery > Vers > Haste =! Crit.

An accurate public version of SimC should release alongside, if not prior to pre-patch that can be used to ascertain personal stats, as usual.

Why would versatility be better than mastery like, ever? I'm fairly sure mastery gives more increase on dps than versatility does, considering our enrage uptime.

[Deleted]

Why would versatility be better than mastery like, ever? I'm fairly sure mastery gives more increase on dps than versatility does, considering our enrage uptime.

Intuition tends to fare badly versus SimCraft and the like.

[Archimtiros]

Not pseudo by any means. Inconsequential -- sure. I'm not pretending it makes any sort of noticable difference, I just figured it seemed a fairly natural thing to do. I may be wrong about how much DR hits for though. If (DR+DR buff to a GCD's worth of auto-attacks)/GCD < (expected fight DPS) then it is obviously a loss (roughly speaking; trinket procs etc. aside).

And there is no wasting time; you would obviously want to be engaging the boss at 0.0s, same as always, with the DR at -GCD.

It's pseudo in the form that you don't even know if what you're doing is a gain.

The wasted time is time wasted on the buff in which you could be auto attacking during. If you're using it 0.5s before the pull, that's 0.5s of the buff you're missing (or whatever the numbers are).

- - - Updated - - -

Why would versatility be better than mastery like, ever? I'm fairly sure mastery gives more increase on dps than versatility does, considering our enrage uptime.

Versatility was bad mainly because the relative amount of stat budget needed was greater than other stats. This is no longer the case. The two also aren't directly comparable in that one is active at all times and the other is active for a portion of the time.

- - - Updated - - -

I really, really don't want Inner Rage to be optimal. I may be the only one who hates the playstyle with Inner Rage, but I can't get on board with any ability that's there simply to hit on cooldown and does nothing else. Yes, it generates 5 rage, but that's fairly inconsequential, especially with the added cooldown.

It feels like Inner Rage is the Titanic Might of the Fury spec. The talent you take when you still want to play Fury, but don't want to have to worry too much about the mechanics. Those talents are usually (or should usually) be the weaker option.

Yes, I agree Fury is clunky with Frenzy, but it's a hell of a lot more fun, IMO. Getting three RBs off when you get enraged feels good, and tracking Enrage so you know to delay Rampage until it falls off is fun. I just wish that I didn't have to forego one of those RBs to refresh my Frenzy stack.

It's a little maddening that they're so close to having a really engaging, fun spec, but little things like Furious Slash and Inner Rage tuning keep it from getting there.

I really, really have bad news for you.

I'd argue that Inner Rage actually makes it more engaging as it removes some of the spamminess of pressing the same ability over and over again (ie: pressing RB 2-3 times in a row every time you become Enraged, or FS 2-3 times in a row every time you aren't and can't Rampage), and the 5 rage may seem inconsequential but when you consider the fact that Bloodthirst generates only 10 rage, it's a consistent amount of reoccurring rage generation.

That said, if you don't want to use it, don't use it.

[Artunias]

Damn boys, that variance in procs on Odyn's Champion and Berserking. I still agree with Arch that these feel broken.

[Deleted]

It's pseudo in the form that you don't even know if what you're doing is a gain.

Hence my asking for thoughts. Sheesh.

Peer-reviewing is essential in scientific work, not so much something practiced in pseudo-science, for what it's worth.

[Soulg]

Hence my asking for thoughts. Sheesh.

Peer-reviewing is essential in scientific work, not so much something practiced in pseudo-science, for what it's worth.

He did peer review you. Archi is just more... blunt, then most people.

[Beardyface]

I really, really have bad news for you.

I'd argue that Inner Rage actually makes it more engaging as it removes some of the spamminess of pressing the same ability over and over again (ie: pressing RB 2-3 times in a row every time you become Enraged, or FS 2-3 times in a row every time you aren't and can't Rampage), and the 5 rage may seem inconsequential but when you consider the fact that Bloodthirst generates only 10 rage, it's a consistent amount of reoccurring rage generation.

That said, if you don't want to use it, don't use it.

I don't agree. Once you take away enrage gating RB, there's really no point in being enraged. If Inner Rage were baseline they could remove the enrage mechanic and it wouldn't really affect how the spec plays at all, aside from the extra rage gain from auto attacks during enrage. Once something doesn't interact with at least one other thing, I don't see the point in it anymore. It's just bad design.

But to each their own, I guess. You can't quantify fun.

[Soulg]

Once you take away enrage gating RB, there's really no point in being enraged.

not even close to true

[Deleted]

He did peer review you. Archi is just more... blunt, then most people.

Interestingly, he himself has yet to conclude whether or not it is a gain, save for vague comments about "wasting time" that miss the point entirely. And never mind blunt, rude is more apt.

[Deleted]

I don't agree. Once you take away enrage gating RB, there's really no point in being enraged. If Inner Rage were baseline they could remove the enrage mechanic and it wouldn't really affect how the spec plays at all, aside from the extra rage gain from auto attacks during enrage. Once something doesn't interact with at least one other thing, I don't see the point in it anymore. It's just bad design.

But to each their own, I guess. You can't quantify fun.

I don't think that I would be playing fury in Legion if there wasn't inner rage. The rotation feels so weird without it. I agree that it's badly designed, but that's another topic.

[Wraeith]

I don't agree. Once you take away enrage gating RB, there's really no point in being enraged. If Inner Rage were baseline they could remove the enrage mechanic and it wouldn't really affect how the spec plays at all, aside from the extra rage gain from auto attacks during enrage. Once something doesn't interact with at least one other thing, I don't see the point in it anymore. It's just bad design.

But to each their own, I guess. You can't quantify fun.

I thought this at first as well, but after having played with the spec more I realized you still functionally use Raging Blow the same with or without Inner Rage, the only difference is that you CAN use it in the event you're unlucky with proccing Enrage, apart from the massively increased damage IR provides. The rotation feels even better without that arbitrary limitation in my opinion.

I know this has probably been covered and I have glanced through the recent pages, but I see most favoring Avatar over Wrecking Ball now, is that the general consensus? I quite like the variation WB adds compared to another generic damage buff.

[Deleted]

I don't agree. Once you take away enrage gating RB, there's really no point in being enraged. If Inner Rage were baseline they could remove the enrage mechanic and it wouldn't really affect how the spec plays at all, aside from the extra rage gain from auto attacks during enrage. Once something doesn't interact with at least one other thing, I don't see the point in it anymore. It's just bad design.

But to each their own, I guess. You can't quantify fun.

You still play around Enrage even with Inner Rage. Archi posted two priority lists (one for when Enraged, one for when not) a page or two back.

[Beardyface]

You still play around Enrage even with Inner Rage. Archi posted two priority lists (one for when Enraged, one for when not) a page or two back.

Hmm. I looked back 10 pages and couldn't find it. I was certain RB hit so hard that you would never want to delay it for anything. If it is optimal to try and delay RB to line up with enrage when using Inner Rage that would certainly be more interesting.

[Deleted]

Hmm. I looked back 10 pages and couldn't find it. I was certain RB hit so hard that you would never want to delay it for anything. If it is optimal to try and delay RB to line up with enrage when using Inner Rage that would certainly be more interesting.

To be fair, everything was strong with TF; my guilds holy pally auto-attacking the boss between casts was powerful with it.

- - - Updated - - -



Not quite.

If you're Enraged -
Rampage at max rage > WB > Execute > RB > BT > FS

If you're not Enraged -
Rampage > BT > WB > RB > FS

Don't bother with Execute if you're not enraged, it's a waste of rage that could be spend enraging you.

Found it -- apparently I underestimated just how quickly this thread ups its page count

[Wraeith]

Hmm. I looked back 10 pages and couldn't find it. I was certain RB hit so hard that you would never want to delay it for anything. If it is optimal to try and delay RB to line up with enrage when using Inner Rage that would certainly be more interesting.

What he posted was basically that you would only want to prioritize RB if you're already Enraged, otherwise BT has priority to increase the likelihood that you become Enraged or generate more rage to hit Rampage earlier.

Question about the artifact transmogging for those in beta: is it possible to transmog the individual weapons separately or must they always share the same model as the other?

[Beardyface]

Found it -- apparently I underestimated just how quickly this thread ups its page count

If you're Enraged -
Rampage at max rage > WB > Execute > RB > BT > FS

If you're not Enraged -
Rampage > BT > WB > RB > FS

Don't bother with Execute if you're not enraged, it's a waste of rage that could be spend enraging you.

What he posted was basically that you would only want to prioritize RB if you're already Enraged, otherwise BT has priority to increase the likelihood that you become Enraged or generate more rage to hit Rampage earlier.

I guess what confuses me is that BT and RB w/ IR have the same cooldown, so you never have to prioritize one over the other unless you have to move of of melee range. I tested it just now and even with the occasional WW on a wrecking ball proc I couldn't get them to line back up.

[Ezymode]

They will inevitably come off cd at the same time at a few points, mainly after rampage and a WB proc / dragons roar gcd. In this case its BT if you're not enraged and Inner Raging Blow if your are enraged.

[Khelon]

Question about the artifact transmogging for those in beta: is it possible to transmog the individual weapons separately or must they always share the same model as the other?

Just like the old system, you can transmog each weapon to different ones if you like.

[Destram]

So if haste is now becoming one of, if not our best stat, do you think the Warsong enchant would now be better than the Bleeding Hollow?

[Deleted]

So if haste is now becoming one of, if not our best stat, do you think the Warsong enchant would now be better than the Bleeding Hollow?

I've heard Haste is the way to go for anything that lasts longer than hero or around 1 minute, so basically; Reaver, Kormrok, Council (though mastery for additional cleave damage perhaps?), Gorefiend, Soc, Zakuun and Tyrant... The rest are either heavy AoE so Mastery would still be better or have phases so physically can't be shorter than a minute or w/e

- - - Updated - - -

I guess what confuses me is that BT and RB w/ IR have the same cooldown, so you never have to prioritize one over the other unless you have to move of of melee range. I tested it just now and even with the occasional WW on a wrecking ball proc I couldn't get them to line back up.

Unless I'm mistaken it's simply a case of using Raging Blow over everything except your Droar/Rampage/Artifact combo and Wrecking Ball procs as long as you're Enraged. If you're not Enraged you want to use Rampage or BT (in that order of priority).

So essentially

Rampage > BT (if not enraged) > Wrecking Ball > Raging Blow > BT (if Enraged) is my understanding.


Edit: That is, I've heard we prio WB procs over Raging Blow with Raging Blows damage nerf - if I'm mistaken just switch RB and WB procs around.