Patch 7.03, the end of master loot pugs?

[judgementofantonidas]

Personal Loot for PuGs is better in every way. PuGs with Masterloot always were shitty, because they were only designed to fucking equip the fucking Leader.

yep. the very rare chance that zero loot drops from a boss is much preferred over the guaranteed number of drops in other than personal.

[Schizoide]

This is a terrible idea. Wanna know why? Because the people who lead the competent pugs won't do so without the ability to reserve a piece of gear. So, enjoy your shitshow pugs now. This will be fixed by 7.1 when all of the pug groups are failing on the first bosses.

Yeah, my initial reaction was "great! will stop the jerks and ninjitsu!", but when you think about it, this removes all incentives for people to bring randos to pugs. Most of the incentive was removed by flexible scaling (so you don't want to bring carries as they actually hurt you) and this removes whatever remained.

IMO, if someone goes to the trouble to create a PUG raid and leads it competently, they should be allowed to reserve whatever loot they want as long as they do it clearly, in writing, before the raid begins.

Seems to me this change is intended to reduce support costs, not to stop ninjas or provide a better play experience. And I believe it will not be reverted.

[judgementofantonidas]

The drama will be really high when somebody inspects you and finds your PL gear you just got is of no use to you, but big upgrade for them.

And there will be a market, I can see some people doing raids that they don't need gear from just to sell their pieces. Well, it's probably the lesser of 2 evils, although Master Loot with a proper policing system in place that bans ninja idiots and returns items to players is what we needed.

OOOOH> I did not think of this. Traceable personal loot. Running content with friends in group to make sure the loot gets distributed properly. Isn't this tantamount to what the scrubs were all crying about when LF"R" originally came out?

[Alvito]

No more ninjas and stupid reserved item pugs? Nice

Sucks for mixed guild runs and groups that don't abuse loot master. Sure is nice when Blizzard screws things ip for honest players becausethey don't want to deal with the shitheads.

[judgementofantonidas]

This will end the shitty groups that reserve items or ninja items.

Usually don't reserve until I have surpassed shitty.

[Sylvaeres]

Maybe that demanding they join your guild so you can put master loot in gives away that you are trying to cheat them.

If that was true they would rather implement a reserve item feature so you can't hide it and you will automatically get it should it drop.

I mean, it'll only take 2 months from now to prove what I'm saying. I lead 13/13n pugs from week 3 on and 13/13h pugs from week 5 on. Nobody complained about me reserving one piece of loot, because they were more happy to actually get content done then fuck around with these scrub pugs that barely get past reaver

[Alvito]

The drama will be really high when somebody inspects you and finds your PL gear you just got is of no use to you, but big upgrade for them.

And there will be a market, I can see some people doing raids that they don't need gear from just to sell their pieces. Well, it's probably the lesser of 2 evils, although Master Loot with a proper policing system in place that bans ninja idiots and returns items to players is what we needed.

Blizzard didn't want to deal with the problems before and are now dumping on the people that used the system correctly.

[Schizoide]

Sucks for mixed guild runs and groups that don't abuse loot master. Sure is nice when Blizzard screws things ip for honest players becausethey don't want to deal with the shitheads.

Exactly. No more "we only have 14 people, Billy wants to bring a couple friends, they know how to play, that cool?" The answer will now be "no".

[Sylvaeres]

Yeah, my initial reaction was "great! will stop the jerks and ninjitsu!", but when you think about it, this removes all incentives for people to bring randos to pugs. Most of the incentive was removed by flexible scaling (so you don't want to bring carries as they actually hurt you) and this removes whatever remained.

IMO, if someone goes to the trouble to create a PUG raid and leads it competently, they should be allowed to reserve whatever loot they want as long as they do it clearly, in writing, before the raid begins.

Seems to me this change is intended to reduce support costs, not to stop ninjas or provide a better play experience. And I believe it will not be reverted.

I mean, they may not revert it. But I doubt it. No sane person is going to put together a full EN or NH clear without the ability to reserve one piece, especially in a 30 man format. I wonder how the Gul'dan mount will play into this, cause I'll certainly be leading raids on him to sell the mount

[judgementofantonidas]

What stops people form joining the guild masters guild for the duration of the run?

that is some real progressive thinking right there. take it one step farther and join a guild that is doing the master looting then "you" don't have the issue's that come with bad pugs and worse players in them.

[Alvito]

Good and I hope its setup to where the majority of the group size must be in the same guild to enable it.

For example 7 out of 10 in a 10man group. This will end the shitty groups that reserve items or ninja items.

This change alone may be enough for me to use LFG come legion.

Personal Loot or bust even more so since you can trade PL items.

- - - Updated - - -


Then they can get over it. That is why its called PERSONAL LOOT. By ur logic a NM raider will get pissed when he sees someone in mythic raid gear.

The easier solution is to not run with those shitty groups.

[Schizoide]

I wonder how the Gul'dan mount will play into this, cause I'll certainly be leading raids on him to sell the mount

So you plan for people leave their guilds and join yours just to do the PUG, then? I mean, that seems really unlikely.

[Anoregon]

yep. the very rare chance that zero loot drops from a boss is much preferred over the guaranteed number of drops in other than personal.

That's not how personal loot works. A 0-loot boss isn't rare, it's impossible.

[Deleted]

Nice change tbh. The ridiculous level of reserving items was one reason I didn't pug raid on alts this expansion.

[judgementofantonidas]

Well, there goes my pugging anything but a guild group fill. I flat out can't STAND Personal loot and never join a pug using it. Might as well just delete group finder from my game blizz.

Exactly my thought. A bunch of pugs that could have actually used my help just removed any chance of me joining their group.

[Schizoide]

Nice change tbh. The ridiculous level of reserving items was one reason I didn't pug raid on alts this expansion.

Why? If you don't need the reserved items yourself, why wouldn't you join that pug?

[judgementofantonidas]

Huh... Most people I know prefer Personal loot since it means they're either lucky and get something, or they don't. No more being at the whim of other players, when other players can grief and ninja shit without actually intending to use it.

In my experience, I get upgrades just as often with personal loot as with other kinds of loot systems, if not more thanks to not having to factor in what other players do.

Get in raid groups where the average age is over 17 and you will see less of this.

[araine]

This is part of the problem, but honestly seeing guild groups up in the group finder reserving gear still makes me salty. I appreciate the intent, and I like that pugs in general can't master loot any more, but once a group starts pugging people, it should be a pug group. The guild group classification is too liberal for this setting.

What needs to be in place is if you use LFG tool to get members for your group you are automatically banned from master loot regardless if you have 75% guild group. to be allowed to master loot you should NOT be allowed to use the grouping tools period it should be that you create your group totally without its aide.

[Schizoide]

True PUGs tend to be personal loot, sure. But those are much less successful than when you get a core bunch of skilled guildmates together who need a couple people to fill out the ranks for a raid. Those are the "pugs" you actually want to join, assuming you don't enjoy wipefests on easy content, and those are never, ever, personal loot.

[Deleted]

Looking at the overall picture, I see more pros than cons. What weights heavies imo is the fact that it makes it harder to sell boosts, and make the gear go out to the people who rightfully earned it- and not to the ones that paid the most G/rl currency.