Bye masterloot, farewell alot of pugs?

[Onikaroshi]

Well there is always the oppertunity to setup some alt runs withing the guild and only bring pugs enough to still use the ML function?

If you are actually in a raiding guild that isnt providing the amount of raiding you need then maybe thats the core of the issue?

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The funny thing is this change proves that blizzard doesnt like it

Basicly making it non-legal

My guild already raids four days a week, but some weeks I just want to raid even more. I love raiding, it's the reason I play the game. Finding another guild that raids the days we don't would be almost impossible and it's not like I raid those off days EVERY week.

This whole shenanigans just removes the option for a lot of us who prefer ML instead of letting both live. There was plenty of PL pugs in group finder, I had to leave quite a few that didn't list their loot rules. That's the main issue here, removal of the option, and removal of options is never a good thing.

[cFortyfive]

With the way you have acted in this thread alone why would anyone want to group with you anyway.

Don't worry my pugs were quite popular. Never had any issue to fill slots back when I still cared to do content with more or less randoms. People like successful runs and not everyone is 10 and needs to be handled with kid gloves as long as everything is fair.

[Deleted]

finally done boosting those ppl who reserve loot... im super happy for this fuck boosting ppl who just reserve and are noobs

[Gorgodeus]

What about the make your own group option ? there are tons of people whining here and not surprisingly obviously in the forums and reddit yet it didn't change.

I prefer the "get rid of ninja groups" option that this change has provided, but thanks anyways.

[cFortyfive]

I prefer the "get rid of ninja groups" option that this change has provided, but thanks anyways.

Sure I know doing shit yourself is just too hard

[Jtbrig7390]

Don't worry my pugs were quite popular. Never had any issue to fill slots back when I still cared to do content with more or less randoms. People like successful runs and not everyone is 10 and needs to be handled with kid gloves as long as everything is fair.

But some act like they are even in this thread.

For example.....

Trying to exaggerate to make you sound less like a jelly pleb.

you seem to have some sort of loot ptsd so I supposed somebody must have touched you in a bad spot.

that would be preposterous for all those jelly plebs.

[Dreamingfox]

While ninja pugs for me haven't happened too often, I have Joined several reserved item pug groups and I have had about a dozen or so change the reserved loot from what I originally signed up for. I am pretty diligent about reading the reserves to see if something I am aiming for is on that list. I think the most common one that happened to me is the edict of argus. Manny then archimonde killed manny with it not being on reserved then the ML invites friends for archi and then gives to friend when it drops saying it was on reserved all the long. If it has happened to me I am sure it has happened to many others.

[Nayami]

I'm very happy with this change

No more "ALL *my class* GEAR IS RESERVED" groups or "Only X is reserved" but then Y and Z also become reserved mid run.

Will definitely make pugs a much more enjoyable experience.

[cFortyfive]

But some act like they are even in this thread.

Well someone here also spells as if he was 10 Again I had zero problems filling my groups I usually used to farm legendaries.

[Powell]

I have rarely had a good experience with ML groups, raid leaders who insist on having ML is never a good sign.

[Jtbrig7390]

Well someone here also spells as if he was 10 Again I had zero problems filling my groups I usually used to farm legendaries.

My point proven ty.

[Perkunas]

It was one of the issues yes. This change will be enough for me to use LFG in Legion. I used LFG to get all my NM kills on my paladin and the experience I had was enough for me to never use it again,The main issue was loot.

Thanks to this I will be using it come legion

I'm glad you wont get stuck with subpar content.

[Jtbrig7390]

I'm glad you wont get stuck with subpar content.

I don't see it as supbar content but different strokes for different fokes I guess.

[cFortyfive]

My point proven ty.

As long as everything is fine in your head it's all good.

[Onikaroshi]

I have rarely had a good experience with ML groups, raid leaders who insist on having ML is never a good sign.

Must be a regional thing? I see all these post about bad experiences with pug ml and just cannot imagine it as in the hundreds of pugs I've been in I've never had a bad loot experience. Raid experience yes, but never loot.

And I've had more people change to PL than anything after they had the raid vote. I don't care if I spent an hour waiting for that raid to form, I'm leaving. Pl has never been worth it for me.

[Gorgodeus]

Sure I know doing shit yourself is just too hard

Yeah, so hard that I have been a Guild Leader and Raid Leader of said guild for 8.5 years.

[caervek]

As OP said this will be devastating for raid PUGs, the damage to the LFG/Openraid scene will hit quite hard, not to mention 10m guilds that team up for mythic. This is a sad case of a dev not actually using the system he's changing (Watcher even said he doesn't understand why people are complaining because he doesn;t use ML).

[glowpipe]

Less ninjalooting. What is there not to like ?

[Gorgodeus]

As OP said this will be devastating for raid PUGs, the damage to the LFG/Openraid scene will hit quite hard, not to mention 10m guilds that team up for mythic. This is a sad case of a dev not actually using the system he's changing (Watcher even said he doesn't understand why people are complaining because he doesn;t use ML).

I guess those 10 man guilds need to merge then. It will not be devastating in the least. The damage ninjas and reserve looters were doing to "the scene" was far worse than what little impacts the new system will have.

[Deleted]

People reserving items was the major problem over people actually stealing loot via ninja-tactics.

Early in a new raid there are so many variations of reserves, and you may think that's fine but these can end up comprising the vast majority of the available groups. It's fair to say you can make your own, but the majority go down this route and the only real benefit guaranteed to yourself is to join in and reserve the things you want.

The open, fair, everyone-is-equal groups were becoming increasingly few and far between.

There's also one very simple counter-argument that basically, while being tit-for-tat is applicable, if all these people think they should get to reserve loot for organising raids then simply make a guild where that is the case.

Not everyone has the confidence, ability or patience to form pug runs. Despite being the raid leader for my guild and being willing to chuck like 8-10 hours a week at raiding, I'm personally not even prepared to chuck one hour of my own time at sorting a pug group because it's of no real interest to me. Outside of the first week I tend to join as a courtesy towards socials in the guild, to possibly try and see in action a player I'm interested in recruiting or just to have a quick couple of bosses where I can play without having to raid lead.

Considering titanforged is in Legion this dramatically improves my potential interest in throwing spare hours here and there at pugs, so personal loot is far more alluring to me now rather than the inevitable "All Titanforged Drops Reserved" appearing in the group finder, in addition to trinkets & tier tokens.