450 of 452 suicide attacks in 2015 were by Muslims

[ABEEnr2]

I clear the religion? Yes.. If you insist.
If the religion was the problem, we'd have 1.6 billion lunatics coming after us. We'd be at the brink of, if not already in World War 3.
The actions of a few hundred or even a few thousand do not represent 1.6 billion people.
Instead, as I said already.. The religion serves as a tool to mislead mentally weak, or even ill people.
And all it takes is ONE person to mislead a whole lot of people.
You don't need Muslims to find that this is true, since it's human nature.
Does Waco Siege ring a bell?

im guessing you gonna blame muslims for the cold war too?

[Wildtree]

im guessing you gonna blame muslims for the cold war too?

what?
English please...

I'm pretty sure, I made a case that Muslims (the whole of them) cannot be blamed for the actions of a few.
But okay.

[tehealadin]

I clear the religion? Yes.. If you insist.

Your posts are there for all to see. Unless you meant something else by them, most people will take the point that I took.

If the religion was the problem, we'd have 1.6 billion lunatics coming after us. We'd be at the brink of, if not already in World War 3.

Of course we wouldn't. Not all Muslims are Islamist extremists. Thankfully most of the religious discard their holy books. The ones who don't however (e.g. the Islamic extremists) aren't doing to out of a zealous love of secular values, are they?

The actions of a few hundred or even a few thousand do not represent 1.6 billion people.

I have never claimed this. I will never get this mindset. If I criticise the role of Islam in Islamist extremism (why do you think it is called Islamist and not...something else?), I am calling all Muslims extremists? The leap you have taken is too much, and if I didn't know better, I would say it is a deliberate leap in order to try and prevent criticism, born out of white guilt. I don't know you well enough to speculate on that point, however.

Instead, as I said already.. The religion serves as a tool to mislead mentally weak, or even ill people.
And all it takes is ONE person to mislead a whole lot of people.
You don't need Muslims to find that this is true, since it's human nature.

You imply that all extremists are mentally weak, or even ill. And being mislead by some group for reasons that have nothing to do with religion.
Religion is not Islam. Islam is a religion. There are other religions, at no point have I suggested that there is only one religion and it's name is Islam (despite what some followers might say). We would be talking more about Christianity, if it were the Christians extremists blowing themselves up in crowded places, or the Judaism, if it was the Jewish extremists that were blowing themselves up in crowded places. It isn't. They don't because they ultimately lost their power, they were forced to curb the worst in their books and adopt more secular values. Islam, in Islamic countries, haven't really had this. Islam is not being picked on just because most of its adherents aren't white.

Does Waco Siege ring a bell?

Waco....yea, that atheist retreat that got roughed up by popo for being too atheist.

[Darkeon]

Those two guys were the worst. They were raised and educated in a world where this type of behavior is not accepted, thus the fact that they committed this atrocity is MILES worse than those poor 450 Muslims that knew no better.

So my suggestion is to teach the likes of those two to not commit Terrorist attacks.

[primalmatter]

The latter isn't relevant really.
What is however relevant, whether occupied territory is acknowledged by other nations as the legal territory, as the land of the occupants.
Neither Syria nor Iraq surrendered any inch of that territory. Both uphold their sovereignty. And the international community agrees.

They can agree all day.

Doesn't change the fact a enemy army occupies it.

[ParanoiD84]

All the places muslims conquered from christian and other hands from around year 700 that are now a majority muslim population is doing so well these days, africa and the middleeast such wonderful places with so much to offer.

[Forogil]

The latter isn't relevant really.
What is however relevant, whether occupied territory is acknowledged by other nations as the legal territory, as the land of the occupants.
Neither Syria nor Iraq surrendered any inch of that territory. Both uphold their sovereignty. And the international community agrees.

Both controlling territory and being recognized as government of that territory are necessary to be recognized as a state.

E.g. one of the reasons Palestine isn't recognized by many other nation is that it doesn't control its territory; and Israel is still seen as an occupier with no legitimate control of its territory by many states. Thus "statehood" is not an objective measure - but something that other states use depending on their diplomatic and military goals.

[Wildtree]

You imply that all extremists are mentally weak, or even ill.

Yes, the followers all are.

And being mislead by some group for reasons that have nothing to do with religion.

Yes, again. That's what I am saying.
The religion only serves as the tool to the bidding of the few leaders.

Waco....yea, that atheist retreat that got roughed up by popo for being too atheist.

Fine, then you should know that we're talking about 76 dead people, and a bunch more alive and arrested. And all just because of one single lunatic who was charismatic enough to for some reason make nearly 100 people believe in, and follow him.
Of course, it seems at the first glance as some different thing.
But it isn't. It's still the same human brain. Still the same chemical processes that causing these things.

And, for the record now.
We've probably the 234578th thread about the issue, and once again it's nothing else than "Islam is bad", it's the Muslim's fault.
No one really ever, or at least not enough, is interested in looking into those whole arrays of other reasons.
Sorry, not how I roll.

[Machismo]

Indeed. You really feel for all of those engineers, doctors, computer scientists etc who commit suicide attacks. What other alternatives did they have in life? They had nothing. No hope, no opportunity.

Obviously the word "desperate" eluded you.

[Majestic12]

Who were those other two and what did they do?

[stabetha]

I did. He was wrong but not by such a large margin that he warranted a utter dismissal.

you're dealing with people that will totally dismiss a post they don't agree with if you use there instead of their or miss some form of punctuation in it.

[Deleted]

The religion has nothing to do with terrorism.
The religion is used as a tool to brainwash mentally vulnerable people into acts they would normally never do.
And those acts would be actually forbidden by their very religion.

What you describe sounds like religion in general and there are many groups of various sizes who bastardise the many religions but we still let them be "religions" why is this fairly large group nothing to do with religion?

[Deleted]

And to correct you on your signature: We called already the RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion) "terrorists" (left-wing terrorists) and they were all germans (no idea about their religion, but if they had any, it was christians). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

Sure the IRA was 95% Muslim too.

[Sama-81]

Sure the IRA was 95% Muslim too.

On the other hand, perhaps a history lesson isn't the most apt method of approaching current day terrorism? Particularly not when the sole purpose of it is to distract from the actual situation, here and now.

[Deleted]

All the places muslims conquered from christian and other hands from around year 700 that are now a majority muslim population is doing so well these days, africa and the middleeast such wonderful places with so much to offer.

Havent had much chance really have they ? we plunder their riches, Make them slaves and abuse the ecosystem on a massive scale.

[tehealadin]

Yes, the followers all are.

Yes, again. That's what I am saying.
The religion only serves as the tool to the bidding of the few leaders.

Fine, then you should know that we're talking about 76 dead people, and a bunch more alive and arrested. And all just because of one single lunatic who was charismatic enough to for some reason make nearly 100 people believe in, and follow him.
Of course, it seems at the first glance as some different thing.
But it isn't. It's still the same human brain. Still the same chemical processes that causing these things.

And, for the record now.
We've probably the 234578th thread about the issue, and once again it's nothing else than "Islam is bad", it's the Muslim's fault.
No one really ever, or at least not enough, is interested in looking into those whole arrays of other reasons.
Sorry, not how I roll.

Then you admit that religion isn't a good thing? You seem to imply that religion is fine, then go on to list all of the bad things that it leads people to, but seem to let it off the hook for being a mere tool.

- - - Updated - - -

Obviously the word "desperate" eluded you.

No, it didn't. These people weren't desperate. They were well educated and middle class. It isn't simply desperate people who sign onto this kind of shit.

[Sierra85]

if you replace the word "muslims" with extremists, what does the number of suicide attacks change to?

[Logwyn]

Why do they wage wars, then? The muslim country ISIS is all about waging wars.

Islam since its birth has generally been spread by the sword, bow, gun, etc.

[Machismo]

Then you admit that religion isn't a good thing? You seem to imply that religion is fine, then go on to list all of the bad things that it leads people to, but seem to let it off the hook for being a mere tool.

- - - Updated - - -



No, it didn't. These people weren't desperate. They were well educated and middle class. It isn't simply desperate people who sign onto this kind of shit.

Most people who opt to kill themselves are quite desperate. There's a clear trend when it comes to the majority of "martyrs." They tend to be young males, often those without a solid career or love life. Hell, the same can be said for most of the people who enlist in the military in America.

[Logwyn]

if you replace the word "muslims" with extremists, what does the number of suicide attacks change to?

100% I would imagine.