Alliance satisfied yet

[Fenderxx]

I have been hearing that a lot of the new zones have cool Night Elf lore, which is really cool for Alliance players, but this should be lore for the Blood Elves too, correct? Of course they were high elves during the War, but they should be equally tied to this area. Also, everything I heard about the Nightborne, makes them seem more closely related to Blood Elves then Night Elves. Keep in mind I have not played any of these areas, and this is more just thinking out loud.

[Daralii]

I have been hearing that a lot of the new zones have cool Night Elf lore, which is really cool for Alliance players, but this should be lore for the Blood Elves too, correct? Of course they were high elves during the War, but they should be equally tied to this area. Also, everything I heard about the Nightborne, makes them seem more closely related to Blood Elves then Night Elves. Keep in mind I have not played any of these areas, and this is more just thinking out loud.

Yeah, the shaldorei are basically purple blood elves.

[ImpalerEU]

The Horde died the moment the entire faction went full-out pansy mode and tagged along with the Alliance to raid Orgrimmar. The nail in the coffin was when a scumbag troll weakling became Warchief. MoP was a great expansion all-out, but the ending was one of the worst endings I have ever experienced playing this game. Even worse than the comical Cataclysm ending. What you see now of the Horde are nothing but Alliance servants lore-wise. Even the Horde community(consisting mostly of clueless bumpkins or Alliance alts) is rather imbecilic to say the least.

P.S. No, I'm not an Alliance player. Been a Horde player playing one character and one class only with zero alts since January 2007(TBC). There was a time when being Horde was cool, now you just reaffirm that you're a pansy(lore-wise, especially those femboys that praise the Orgrimmar raid) or you simply can't play worth for jack.

[thesmall001]

We will NEVER be satisfied! But we will... be cry babies...

Honestly, as a life-long neutral player; as somebody who thinks the Lore is always great and both Horde and Alliance story-lines are awesome, I really don't see where the majority of Alliance players get off saying they always get screwed. Their adversity is what makes them strong. Their lack of willingness to strike first often makes them righteous. They are the super-power on the constant back foot not the rag-tag underdog fighting for a right to survive.

[WarTV]

The Horde died the moment the entire faction went full-out pansy mode and tagged along with the Alliance to raid Orgrimmar. The nail in the coffin was when a scumbag troll weakling became Warchief. MoP was a great expansion all-out, but the ending was one of the worst endings I have ever experienced playing this game. Even worse than the comical Cataclysm ending. What you see now of the Horde are nothing but Alliance servants lore-wise. Even the Horde community(consisting mostly of clueless bumpkins or Alliance alts) is rather imbecilic to say the least.

P.S. No, I'm not an Alliance player. Been a Horde player playing one character and one class only with zero alts since January 2007(TBC). There was a time when being Horde was cool, now you just reaffirm that you're a pansy(lore-wise, especially those femboys that praise the Orgrimmar raid) or you simply can't play worth for jack.

walk towards the light my son. walk and never look back.

[Vynny]

You are twisting the matter at hand here. It actually still is Horde favourism, but you are simply twisting things around to make it fit your point.

Everything that is happening in the lore during the past expansions has been carefully calculated in order to slowly elevate the Horde and nerf the position of the Alliance lorewise. This includes taking away Alliance-alligned cities into crossfaction hubs or simply destroying them(with the scale of destruction not being equal), taking away heroes and memorable characters from the Alliance, manipulating the lore in order to populate the Horde as a faction(ie coming up with vague reasons such as "Alliance battle plans" to allign the current occupants of Quel'thalas with the Horde) and much more.

All of these things are done to make it convenient and easy to implement Horde mechanics into each new expansion, otherwise the Horde players would have nothing to play in new expansions. In order for the Horde to be forced into the story, Blizzard keeps forcing sacrifice upon sacrifice onto the Alliance.

1. Dalaran was an Alliance city prior to being introduced in WotLK. It is now a crossfaction city. The Horde effectively got a green pass to inhabit and use an Alliance city as they please. It is the Alliance that has the right to complain here because a city that is entirely tied to the Alliance was turned into a crossfaction hub out of convenience for the Horde. Alliance players would prefer if the Horde built their own mud-riddled camps from which they would stage their assault on the Scourge, rather than having to share their cities.

2. The NE lore is abdundant because NE have are indigenous to Azeroth and have been migrating around their homeworld. It is not the Alliance's fault that the Horde races are either new to the lore or haven't spread out far from their original place of living. Orcs came from Draenor, making it logical that there is not much orc lore on Azeroth to begin with; the Forsaken happened to be only after the Third War: the Darkspear trolls are just a small tribe out of all the various and numerous troll tribes that was always confined to a few islands; the blood elves are tied to Quel'thalas, while almost every single pure high elf is alligned with the Alliance(the blood elves are fel-afflicted high elves). The Tauren are the only Horde race that has an abundance of lore tied to Azeroth and they are spread all over Kalimdor and beyond. The various races of the Horde, from an IC and lore point of view, never established civilizations and cultures on the scale Alliance and former Alliance races had(don't bring the trolls up - the Horde trolls are only Darkspear trolls which never reached the civilizational level the Gurubashi did).

3. The Exodar is an Alliance capital and once again, just like in the case of Dalaran, it will be turned into a crossfaction hub for the Horde to use during the expansion which sends players to Argus. Once again, it is the Alliance side that has the right to complain here as the Horde gets to inhabit one of the Alliance major cities.

4. Not only are cities being taken from the Alliance(ie Theramore, Nethergarde, Dalaran and in the future the Exodar aswell), but Alliance heroes keep becoming neutral time and time again. The most notable characters of the Alliance keep becoming neutral towards the Horde. The Alliance lore is getting destroyed expansion in - expansion out. Khadgar, Tirion, Turalyon, Magni, Alleria - all these notable Alliance heroes are being turned into neutral characters for the convenience of the Horde players.

Once the assault on Argus begins, Velen and Anduin will become neutral characters aswell, further increasing the number of memorable and important Alliance characters that lose their allignment for the sake and convenience of implementing the Horde mechanics into the game.

5. The scale of destruction isn't equal. While the Alliance loses Theramore(a fortified island-city that has an abundance of Alliance history behind it), the Horde loses.. Camp Taurajo, a few huts, cages and a campfire on the outskirts of Mulgore. While the Alliance loses Nethergarde(a symbol of Alliance victory, triump and sacrifice during the Alliance-based defense of Azeroth from a demonic onslaught), the Horde loses a camp which was just recently built to spread out the Horde across Azeroth. Blizzard simply puts a few huts, towers, siege engines and wooden walls around a strip of land, turning it into a Horde settlement and then they proceed in destroying an iconic Alliance city/settlement. Horde players justify this by saying how they've also lost their recently-implemented huts, towers and siege engines.

6. The Alliance loses entire kingdoms in an instant - when WoW originally started, Alliance instantly lost Stromgarde over an assassination plot and on top of that, the Alliance also instantly lost Lordaeron, because - who would've guessed - the Alliance must make space for the Horde in order to have a capital. Kul Tiras wasn't even implemented and Gilneas was lost with the first day of the Cataclysm.

Blizzard keeps forcing Horde settlements into various areas, destroying Alliance cities or turning them into crossfaction hubs, turning Alliance heroes into neutral characters and much more in order to accomodate the Horde and find a place for them in each and every new expansion that comes. The reason why is because the Horde races otherwise wouldn't fit anywhere and their mechanics and plots would be unimplementable.

Dat essay. Well let's tackle this 1 step at a time.

1. Dalaran had always been a bit of a separatist city from the rest of the humans. The whole reason it was founded was because the non-mage humans were paranoid and afraid of the mages and made it difficult for them to practice magic openly. On top of that, Dalaran has a long history of being a multiracial city of mages (primarily High Elves from Silvermoon and Humans from Strom) more than anything else, so when the Blood Elves (who are the majority of what were the High Elves) were abandoned by the Alliance and forced to join the Horde out of desperation, Dalaran becoming a cross-faction hub was inevitable.

2. The Blood Elves became fel-afflicted after being abandoned by the Alliance. The whole reason they became fel afflicted was because the sunwell was corrupted and then destroyed and then afterwards, Kael'thas lent his aid to the humans of Lordaeron in fighting the scourge only to be betrayed. Besides that, what you're outlined in this point is exactly why the Horde needed to win some major victories against the Alliance because if they're not head to head then the whole story get's rather dull, and the world of Azeroth (aka the setting) is only a plot device to help establish and move the story forward, so what's your complaint exactly?

3. The Horde could use Tempest Keep or Oshu'gun, or it could be used on a limited basis just like how the horde players go in there to save Velen and the Draenei in Legion.

4. Thrall, Valeera, and Rhaegar were all made neutral, so it doesn't just happen to the Alliance. On top of that, Alleria and Turalyon have not been made neutral yet, and I can see them taking a similar role as Vereesa, so stop using things that haven't happened as a point for your argument because it's just ridiculous. It's like if I were to claim that it's bullshit that we keep losing warchief's because Sylvanas is totally gonna die despite it not happening yet, but it's still likely to happen. Besides that, you're oversimplifying faction allegiance down to racial lines. For example, Khadgar is more following in Medivh footsteps than he is helping the Alliance, and one could argue that Medivh helped form the horde with how he guided Thrall to Kalimdor in the early days of the Horde and got him in touch with Jaina, so saying that Khadgar bleeds blue and gold is an oversimplification.

5. Look to the second part of point two. The story doesn't work unless the Alliance and Horde are head to head and the Horde had some catching up to do due to the reasons you listed in your point 2.

6.Yes, the Alliance had to lose some things in order to maintain or achieve parity with the Horde. Kezan didn't survive day 1 of cataclysm, the difference being that Gilneas could be retaken, but Kezan is completely gone. Secondly, Lordaeron didn't fall just because space was needed for the Horde. They could've put the forsaken anywhere, but since Lordaeron was available and the Forsaken are pretty much the inhabitants of Lordaeron returned from the grave, it was kinda natural that they got it. I mean why should humans from Strom get Lordaeron instead of what is now the majority of Lordaeron's native population? Lastly, your point about Stromgarde is wrong. Stromgarde fell long before the Horde arrived on Azeroth (it's that big fort in Arathi Highlands). Stormwind is what fell due to Garona's assassination of King Llane and it's really a moot point either way because it wasn't used to make room for the Horde, so you're just complaining that the Alliance lost something (temporarily) rather than sticking to your point of the Alliance losing things in order to make room for the Horde.

So basically the Horde gaining ground is for the sake of the story, yes, but that's what WoW is, a story. If you don't do things that make the story more compelling then people will stop consuming that media. On top of that, you are either completely neglecting many of the cross faction aspects of certain places from their inception such as Dalaran being a High Elf and Human city of mages rather than a Human city, and now that the majority of High Elves (now known as Blood Elves) are allied with the Horde, Dalaran naturally became cross-faction, or are oversimplifying who certain characters are allied to down racial lines such as Tirion as well who was sent into exile because he became friends with an Orc and saved him from Alliance soldiers. You can't claim someone exiled from the Alliance to be a member through and through. The Alliance kicked him out and so he set out on his own, not belonging to either side (a.k.a neutral).

Edit:
On top of all of that, the Alliance has more characters hands down. We on horde are to the point where we don't even have a racial leader for each race while there's good backstory on the Dwarven leaders, Mekkatorque, Anduin (the new jesus imo), Greymane, Tyrande and Malfurion. Compare that to Gallywix (who may still not have an in game model, he didn't even have one in Cata or MoP), Vol'jin who's may be dead, Thrall who is one of the longest standing neutral former faction based characters in the game (and no, you can't claim he's Horde when he gives Doomhammer up to Alliance or Horde players in Legion), Baine, who actually has some backstory behind him, Lor'themar who has hardly anything aside from what happened in MoP, and Sylvanas who is the only Horde character through and through that has significant backstory going for her. And fuck both sides of the pandas, I don't give a shit about them. But the point still stands that the Horde has been bleeding characters for years now and we need some new blood and deeper story for some who are already here.

[Disreali]

So basically the Horde gaining ground is for the sake of the story, yes, but that's what WoW is, a story. If you don't do things that make the story more compelling then people will stop consuming that media. On top of that, you are either completely neglecting many of the cross faction aspects of certain places from their inception such as Dalaran being a High Elf and Human city of mages rather than a Human city, and now that the majority of High Elves (now known as Blood Elves) are allied with the Horde, Dalaran naturally became cross-faction...

Well Dalaran, prior to WotLK, was always referred to as one of the seven human kingdoms. Just saying.

Anyway to your point...why can't the Alliance gain ground for the sake of the story? Why are you implying that for the story to move forward it has to be the Horde that gains ground?
Hypothetically? The Alliance retaking Stromgarde and Gilneas present plenty of story opportunities.

[Enthralled]

Don't mind me, I'm just watching this football game. Where's the beer vendor?

[Mehrunes]

Well Dalaran, prior to WotLK, was always referred to as one of the seven human kingdoms. Just saying.

And to accomodate their former allies and members when they needed their help they had to go neutral due to the allegiance shift of Quel'thalas. Natural story progression.

Anyway to your point...why can't the Alliance gain ground for the sake of the story? Why are you implying that for the story to move forward it has to be the Horde that gains ground?

@Vynny hasn't said that the Alliance can't do that. They said that for now the Horde did. Scales could switch in the future. But this is unlikely, because in this case it was gameplay first and story second to cover changes made because of the former. Blizzard equalized the amount of zones because Alliance had more due to Horde bias.

Back to lore reasons, the reason why Horde gained land at the start of Cataclysm is because the Alliance fought like idiots. Alliance players often repeat that lack of consequences after MoP is even more Horde bias, but ignoring 4.0 makes it apparent that it's only the consequences they like that should not be ignored (while ignoring the part where the playable Horde rebelled, teamed up with the Alliance and was on the side of the victors while making a peace treaty with the Alliance).

Hypothetically? The Alliance retaking Stromgarde and Gilneas present plenty of story opportunities.

Hypothetically, and in every other way, Stromgarde left the Alliance and Gilneas was abandoned so the Alliance can't retake them.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

Well Dalaran, prior to WotLK, was always referred to as one of the seven human kingdoms. Just saying.

Anyway to your point...why can't the Alliance gain ground for the sake of the story? Why are you implying that for the story to move forward it has to be the Horde that gains ground?
Hypothetically? The Alliance retaking Stromgarde and Gilneas present plenty of story opportunities.

Because one army will always be superior to another. Balancing it out and allowing the Alliance to gain ground just for the sake of story would be contrived in the current Horde-driven story. And this is coming from someone that has religiously played Alliance for 9 years.

As much as I'd love for Stromgarde to become an Alliance hub again, it's not the main focus of the Alliance. The only Alliance members actively seeking to reclaim it are the remains of its old army, without their Trollbane. How they couldn't reclaim it from a bunch of shitty criminals from Alterac I'll never figure out, but now they have the Forsaken to deal with, and so long as they have at least one val'kyr, the Forsaken are as dangerous as the Scourge.

[ImpalerEU]

walk towards the light my son. walk and never look back.

Enough light in the Horde at the moment and looks like it's here to stay.

[Bigby]

The Horde died the moment the entire faction went full-out pansy mode and tagged along with the Alliance to raid Orgrimmar. The nail in the coffin was when a scumbag troll weakling became Warchief. MoP was a great expansion all-out, but the ending was one of the worst endings I have ever experienced playing this game. Even worse than the comical Cataclysm ending. What you see now of the Horde are nothing but Alliance servants lore-wise. Even the Horde community(consisting mostly of clueless bumpkins or Alliance alts) is rather imbecilic to say the least.

P.S. No, I'm not an Alliance player. Been a Horde player playing one character and one class only with zero alts since January 2007(TBC). There was a time when being Horde was cool, now you just reaffirm that you're a pansy(lore-wise, especially those femboys that praise the Orgrimmar raid) or you simply can't play worth for jack.

No, the Horde died the moment it went from the 'noble savages who've done crap in the past but united to carve out some land for themselves and prove their not monsters' and into RAWR ME SMASH DA ALLIANCE 4 DA H0RDE!11!11! and undid all of the character development since WC3. You cannot have it both ways, try and make out the Horde is some persecuted underdog, whilst at the same time attacking the enemy faction and committing acts that are consistently worse than what the Alliance does in retaliation. I want the Horde to be good guys, not bad guys who claim they're the victims whilst they blindside the Alliance again (hello Ashran).

The Horde community has been shit since they added Blood Elves and the whole 4 DA H0RDE!11! nonsense became a meme. The Horde was never about being edgy warmongers with a victim complex, it was about proving to the world they're not monsters, fighting honourably but savagely and completely against the things that would threaten their growing civilisation, with both factions having hardline minorities for the sake of PvP/BGs.

[Nalorakk]

But Theramore has been destroyed!

perhaps the most well deserved nuking in history

[Disreali]

And to accomodate their former allies and members when they needed their help they had to go neutral due to the allegiance shift of Quel'thalas. Natural story progression.

Well this is where lore runs into the IRL stuff. The OP was talking about Horde bias...which implies that ultimately we're talking not about the way the story plays out but how Blizzard Entertainment determines the story play out.

So how does this reflect on Quel'thalas? Well the BElves weren't originally intended to be a Horde race. There was, in fact, an Alliance faction in Vanilla called the Silvermoon Remnant. The idea of the BElves becoming a Horde race was a reaction to the census numbers that showed that the Alliance was, at a time, vastly outnumbering the Horde in terms of player bases. So the BElves were given to the Horde to fix that balance, to give the Horde an "Alliance" esque race to play Horde side. And it worked, with the balance now probably as close to 50/50 as you can realistically get. And what's the number one race played on the Horde side? BElves.

So if we look at things like that...it's pretty clear that Blizz took a race that had always been Alliance-aligned, a race that had fought bloody wars against both trolls and orcs, and gifted them to the Horde to accommodate the Horde faction. That's bias.

[Deleted]

After three expansions of cries of horde favoritism, with only Cataclysm actually having a legit issue or two, will the Alliance finally admit there's no horde bias and that the story simply shifts in different directions?

In Legion so far, we have:

The horde once again forced into a traditionally Alliance city, and not only that, one we were violently expelled from in MoP. No hint of apology from the Kirin Tor, they act as if it was all our fault because one or two sunreavers worked with Garrosh.

Three of the five zones are filled with night elf related lore, tied to the Alliance via night elves more strongly than any horde race, even blood elves. Meanwhile there's one zone of tauren related lore. I'm not counting Stormheim since the faction story there is equal for both and the vrykul stuff is neutral.

The Night Elf triumverate are all major characters. Horde have to help out Malfurion and Tyrande.

Horde rogues have to have their campaign be all about saving an alliance group, SI 7, from the demons.

Varian is dying as a fitting end to his story arc starting in the comics and progressing through several stories and expansions, and passing the torch on to Anduin, a character who is likewise growing wonderfully as a character. Vol'jin dies after doing **** all as warchief so that Sylvannas can be warchief now because it's her turn and apparently we have to have a new leader every expansion now. This leaves the trolls with no actual leader fyi.

Two of the comics have been focused more on alliance characters, Moira and Anduin.

We go to the Exodar to save it from demons and it's implied Velen and the draenei will have a big role to play in the patches to come.

And yet, despite all this, despite there being hardly anything for the horde and loads for the Alliance, night elves especially, you don't hear cries of us horde players shouting ALLIANCE FAVORITISM. Will those whining about 'horde privilege' kindly apologize now and admit that they were wrong, that Blizz isn't out to screw over the Alliance and the story is simply going to shift over time? And no, spending an expansion killing alternate versions of horde heroes is not a 'horde centric' expansion. Neither was the expansion where they made Garrosh go full on evil so that the Alliance could raid our capital and we had to tag along.

Grown people arguing over two factions which are basically just red and blue pixels. Wow.

[Koryn123]

Baine says Taurajo is a legit military target, yet nobody in all of WoW is able to admit that Theramore was a target. That's the kind of junk that bugs me.

Also how Aethas and the Sunreavers are tripping over each other to be the Kirin Tor's little obedient helper monkeys again.

I wouldn't have minded the Kirin Tor's egocentric view that the Sunreavers are to blame for the Purge, just as long as the Sunreavers were like "Okay. Betray me once, shame on you, betray me twice, shame on me. Not gonna make that mistake again. Screw you guys, and don't come crying to the elves again the next time you're in way over your heads like you were with Malygos. We'll just move into some small city taken over by the Blood Elves from the enemy Nightborne and conduct our own investigation into their artifacts to which our culture is very closely tied."

But nope.

"HERE KHADGAR, YOU'RE A 40-YEAR OLD HUMAN OR WHATEVER, SO YOU PROBABLY KNOW WAY MORE ABOUT THESE NIGHTBORNE ARTIFACTS DESPITE THEM BEING AN OFFSHOOT FROM THE SAME CULTURE AS WE ARE, AND THUS LOGICALLY, WE SHOULD BE WAY BETTER EQUIPPED TO TRANSLATE AND UNDERSTAND ITS MAGIC!!! CAN I FETCH YOUR SLIPPERS?? AND CAN YOU TIE A LEASH AROUND MY NECK AND LET ME OUTSIDE SO I CAN DO MY BUSINESS BECAUSE I'M JUST A LOYAL DOGGY FOR THE KIRIN TOR?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"

[Disreali]

Baine says Taurajo is a legit military target, yet nobody in all of WoW is able to admit that Theramore was a target. That's the kind of junk that bugs me.

Also how Aethas and the Sunreavers are tripping over each other to be the Kirin Tor's little obedient helper monkeys again.

I wouldn't have minded the Kirin Tor's egocentric view that the Sunreavers are to blame for the Purge, just as long as the Sunreavers were like "Okay. Betray me once, shame on you, betray me twice, shame on me. Not gonna make that mistake again. Screw you guys, and don't come crying to the elves again the next time you're in way over your heads like you were with Malygos. We'll just move into some small city taken over by the Blood Elves from the enemy Nightborne and conduct our own investigation into their artifacts to which our culture is very closely tied."

But nope.

"HERE KHADGAR, YOU'RE A 40-YEAR OLD HUMAN OR WHATEVER, SO YOU PROBABLY KNOW WAY MORE ABOUT THESE NIGHTBORNE ARTIFACTS DESPITE THEM BEING AN OFFSHOOT FROM THE SAME CULTURE AS WE ARE, AND THUS LOGICALLY, WE SHOULD BE WAY BETTER EQUIPPED TO TRANSLATE AND UNDERSTAND ITS MAGIC!!! CAN I FETCH YOUR SLIPPERS?? AND CAN YOU TIE A LEASH AROUND MY NECK AND LET ME OUTSIDE SO I CAN DO MY BUSINESS BECAUSE I'M JUST A LOYAL DOGGY FOR THE KIRIN TOR?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"

See, I find this fascinating, because both sides probably want the same thing. Alliance players don't want the Kirin Tor dealing with the Horde, and Horde players don't want to go crawling back to the faction that kicked them out.
So wouldn't keeping the Kirin Tor/Dalaran Alliance-aligned while developing appropriate Horde-aligned analogues using the Sunreavers as a base make everyone happy?

[Raetary]

Grown people arguing over two factions which are basically just red and blue pixels. Wow.

i dont know where you think you are but this is the lore subforum where people are free to talk, argue and discuss the lore of a game called world of warcraft.
if you are only here to tell people how childish, shitty and stupid they are for loving the story of a game and discussing and arguing about it, then please leave.

[ImpalerEU]

No, the Horde died the moment it went from the 'noble savages who've done crap in the past but united to carve out some land for themselves and prove their not monsters' and into RAWR ME SMASH DA ALLIANCE 4 DA H0RDE!11!11! and undid all of the character development since WC3. You cannot have it both ways, try and make out the Horde is some persecuted underdog, whilst at the same time attacking the enemy faction and committing acts that are consistently worse than what the Alliance does in retaliation. I want the Horde to be good guys, not bad guys who claim they're the victims whilst they blindside the Alliance again (hello Ashran).

The Horde community has been shit since they added Blood Elves and the whole 4 DA H0RDE!11! nonsense became a meme. The Horde was never about being edgy warmongers with a victim complex, it was about proving to the world they're not monsters, fighting honourably but savagely and completely against the things that would threaten their growing civilisation, with both factions having hardline minorities for the sake of PvP/BGs.

Yes they are monsters, they are beasts. They could play the whole "diplomatic beast" nonsense you prefer, but it still won't change what they are. That said, you must be very happy with there the Horde stands at the moment. Because they pretty much accomplished that. All that's missing is the removal of world PvP and Battleground and replace them with peaceful and friendly games of poker.

[Disreali]

Yes they are monsters, they are beasts. They could play the whole "diplomatic beast" nonsense you prefer, but it still won't change what they are. That said, you must be very happy with there the Horde stands at the moment. Because they pretty much accomplished that. All that's missing is the removal of world PvP and Battleground and replace them with peaceful and friendly games of poker.

Blackhand/Gul'dan 2016. Make the Horde great again.